Have you changed your mind about this case?What Caused the change?

[angelmom]

Let me play devil's advocate

Suppose Casey knew a bunch of people that you and I might consider dirt-bags. They come and go, sponge off people, live on people's couches then disappear, petty crime, all that stuff.

Say she gave Caylee to one of these dirt-bags for whatever reason. Said dirt-bag could easily go to Mexico from the first day Casey left Caylee in their possession.

It would be easy for someone who is this type of dirt-bag to disappear and not raise any eyebrows.

Okay, I'll play. Where it breaks down for me is that these dirt bags don't have any money (see your first paragraph). How are they surviving without being seen and without Caylee being seen? How did they get to Mexico without anyone noticing or seeing them? Why aren't the people they've scammed coming forward to LE just like all of the people Casey has scammed? The people they hang with should be drooling over that reward.

And if Casey is the mother who couldn't kill her baby, then how could she give her baby to people like this and be so certain she's safe and close to home? Why is she working on her defense instead of frantically trying to get her daughter back?

At first, I thought she killed Caylee and agreeing with most of the people on this site. But I don't know anymore. I am posting what I put on the newbie thread earlier this week. This is how I have changed my thinking lately...

There are several posts in Jesse G. thread ( which is now closed by the mods) but there is Renae that claims she saw Caylee. I am not sure of all the details but she went to the FBI and LE about this, I think she also spoke directly to CA about this as well.

I find everything really odd, especially seeing Caylee in I believe it was Georgia. Jesse G moved to Athens, I found that there are several Grund members in Athens, and outside of Atlanta. If any of you live in rural communities, I am sure you could see how a child can be hidden and homeschooled. Isn't it just a little funny that Casey doesn't seem concerned at all, Jesse quit the police department, Casey called his cell on the 16th, there were airport pings on the 17th, and now there is someone that claims she is certain she saw Caylee alive? Could by chance Casey has been involved or witnessed another death? And called Jesse to help her hide her daughter? Also because Jesse thought he was the dad for the first 10 months, he loves that little girl and I am sure he would do anything to protect her as well. If I were involved in anything where my childs life had been threatened, I would in a heartbeat hide my child and not say a word to LE in attempts to make it appear my child was not around. Especially if someone plans to harm my child. I would do exactly what Casey is doing by not speaking to LE in attempts to allow my child to be out of harms way, in the same way I would take a bullet for my children.

This may be far fetched. But I am trying really hard to see different aspects to this case. Something's up, there doesn't seem to be evidence that she killed her child and unless she really is a cold blooded killer, she doesn't seem the least concerned about the whereabouts of her child or her well being. I think because Casey knows her child is alive and she is in fact ok.

Again, it would be hard to hide all evidence of a child from everyone. Someone would be tempted by that reward.

And again, if Casey is such a good mother, why isn't she worried about her baby? I don't care how much you trust someone, after 2 months you miss them and are worried about them and want to know that they are okay and being well taken care of. Even Baez said they had a "quiet evening at home" (like they're an old married couple!!!) and their first job was to work on her defense.

WTF!!! Why isn't their first job to find Caylee??? How much more cold blooded do you need?

 

[Mountainmama87]

Okay, I'll play. Where it breaks down for me is that these dirt bags don't have any money (see your first paragraph). How are they surviving without being seen and without Caylee being seen? How did they get to Mexico without anyone noticing or seeing them? Why aren't the people they've scammed coming forward to LE just like all of the people Casey has scammed? The people they hang with should be drooling over that reward.

And if Casey is the mother who couldn't kill her baby, then how could she give her baby to people like this and be so certain she's safe and close to home? Why is she working on her defense instead of frantically trying to get her daughter back?



Again, it would be hard to hide all evidence of a child from everyone. Someone would be tempted by that reward.

And again, if Casey is such a good mother, why isn't she worried about her baby? I don't care how much you trust someone, after 2 months you miss them and are worried about them and want to know that they are okay and being well taken care of. Even Baez said they had a "quiet evening at home" (like they're an old married couple!!!) and their first job was to work on her defense.

WTF!!! Why isn't their first job to find Caylee??? How much more cold blooded do you need?[/QUOTE]

Exactly!! And from what I understand this is actually a PAID attorney...Bwahahaha!

 

[Aleve N Fla]

At first, I thought she killed Caylee and agreeing with most of the people on this site. But I don't know anymore. I am posting what I put on the newbie thread earlier this week. This is how I have changed my thinking lately...

There are several posts in Jesse G. thread ( which is now closed by the mods) but there is Renae that claims she saw Caylee. I am not sure of all the details but she went to the FBI and LE about this, I think she also spoke directly to CA about this as well.

I find everything really odd, especially seeing Caylee in I believe it was Georgia. Jesse G moved to Athens, I found that there are several Grund members in Athens, and outside of Atlanta. If any of you live in rural communities, I am sure you could see how a child can be hidden and homeschooled. Isn't it just a little funny that Casey doesn't seem concerned at all, Jesse quit the police department, Casey called his cell on the 16th, there were airport pings on the 17th, and now there is someone that claims she is certain she saw Caylee alive? Could by chance Casey has been involved or witnessed another death? And called Jesse to help her hide her daughter? Also because Jesse thought he was the dad for the first 10 months, he loves that little girl and I am sure he would do anything to protect her as well. If I were involved in anything where my childs life had been threatened, I would in a heartbeat hide my child and not say a word to LE in attempts to make it appear my child was not around. Especially if someone plans to harm my child. I would do exactly what Casey is doing by not speaking to LE in attempts to allow my child to be out of harms way, in the same way I would take a bullet for my children.

This may be far fetched. But I am trying really hard to see different aspects to this case. Something's up, there doesn't seem to be evidence that she killed her child and unless she really is a cold blooded killer, she doesn't seem the least concerned about the whereabouts of her child or her well being. I think because Casey knows her child is alive and she is in fact ok.

The only reason Jesse moved to Athens, GA was to move in with his brother Chris who was accepted into the Univ of GA. His brother has been trying to go to U of G for years now, so Athens came into the picture waaaay before anyone apparently saw Caylee in Georgia. And Jesse did not fly up to Athens, GA in July - but just moved there with his brother. While I dont agree with alot that Jesse's Dad has on his blogs and such, I do know that there is no way Jesse is helping Casey hide Caylee. If that is your theory, then you should look at others that would help Casey - not the Grund Family.
And while I am not doubting what Renea saw, she did put out a description of Jesse's mom that was false. She is an attractive woman, very stylish who would never in a million years help someone hide a missing child.

 

[Sherbie]

Perhaps, I just can't bear to believe she killed that precious baby. And that's OK. I am not trying to get anyone else to change their view, nor have I tried to. I am just trying so hard to think that she's not deceased. And even she is, Casey didn't do it outright, maybe an accident hidden, now spun completely out of control. If it were an accident, and Casey is lurking on here then SHAME ON YOU FOR NOT CALLING 911!

I also can't bear to think she intentionally killed Caylee, although as we've seen following cases over the years, it's certainly possible. Just so hard to see that precious, beautiful child in her pictures and to think of anyone -- let alone her own mommy -- intentionally hurting that little angel. It happens, though, so I can't totally discount that she did murder her.

I do not buy any sort of kidnapping/lost/gave away/sold theory whatsoever. If that were the case, she's had close to 70 days to tell someone -- ANYONE -- what happened, who has her, and where she might be found. Yet, not a peep.

The snippets we've heard of Casey talking do not portray an anguished mother concerned about getting her child back; rather, she sounds to me like someone who has already gotten used to the idea that she's gone and is focused only on herself. Petulant and pissed that people have the nerve to be worried for Caylee while she is going through this jail ordeal -- how dare they! So far as I can tell, she has shown absolutely no concern for Caylee. None.

I suppose it's possible she left Caylee in someone else's care and something happened to her during that time and then Casey and this other person tried to hide it...but who would Casey go to such lengths to protect, rather than report the death? That scenario seems very unlikely to me as well.

What I think is most likely -- and what I've thought from day one -- is that Caylee somehow died while in Casey's care either by neglect or some unintentional thing Casey did or didn't do that caused or facilitated her death (drowning, left in hot car, OD'd on something given to her or that she found lying around, etc.). It was obviously way too late to call 911 and get help, and Casey knew she'd be responsible and in huge trouble. So, futile as it was, she tried to hide what happened and come up with a cover story -- but she isn't the least bit clever and could not pull it off.

I would love nothing in this world more than to be wrong and for that darling little sweetie pie to still be with us, but I have not changed my opinion. I've thought all along and still think that Caylee is no longer alive and Casey has stupidly tried to cover for her part in it.

:rose: Caylee :rose:

 

[brighidin]

The minute I heard on the news, "Missing child not reported by mother for 31 days", I felt another mother had killed her child. What I have seen since only reinforces that for me.

I feel the exact same way.

 

[Jolynna]

This is exactly what they want. They want you to have reasonable doubt so if murder charges are filed without a body it will be hard to get a conviction.

Even if LE has evidence that a body was in the trunk,
unless there is also a lot of Caylee's blood or Casey googled "how to smother a child", I have reasonable doubt it was murder.

I have no way to know beyond doubt that it wasn't an accident.

Casey's being out and about partying and not reporting that Caylee was missing proves to me that she wasn't making any effort to rescue her daughter. But, IMO, it doesn't prove she murdered her.

 

[yosande]

Agreed! Dogs, Cindy saying smelled like a dead body, George riding home nauseated with windows rolled down from the smell. That pretty much seals the deal for me. If it were just the dogs, I would think otherwise but all of this combined is obvious to me.

There is NOTHING like the smell of decomp. Even if you've never smelled it, YOU KNOW when you do. It's just one of those things.

So no I haven't changed my mind.

You know what I don't get? Why didn't George call LE as soon as he opened that car door at the towing place? Why did he get in it and drive home? After all he had been a LE himself.

 

[wallflower67]

I have always thought Caylee was dead. If it weren't for the dog hits, I could imagine Casey gave away or sold Caylee, just to spite Cindy.

I have always felt sorry for the grandparents. But I'm getting pretty fed up with their stupidity. Stupidity always annoys me.

 

[cricket]

I haven't changed my mind regarding Caylee - when I first read about this case and that Casey didn't call LE, I thought she was dead and that Casey was responsible, and I still think that. I just can't get past the cadaver dogs and the fact that Casey didn't call LE.

I HAVE changed my mind regarding Cindy and George - I used to defend them and had sympathy for them - now I'm just disgusted with them.

I HAVE also changed my mind regarding Mr. Baez, her lawyer. In the beginning I thought he was a stupid lawyer who jumped into this to get his 15 minutes of fame. I've come to believe that he is smarter than I originally thought and that he's doing a good job as a defense attorney. (However, I still think he's in this for the publicity!)

 

[Balthazar]

I think we don't know all the facts in this case. It's really hard to know what is true and what isn't.

What I do know, is there seems to be 3 kinds of killer moms: Mentally ill moms, moms who kill for selfish reasons and try to conceal the murder and finally vengeance/rage killer moms. Some aspects of this case sound like a possible vengeance/rage killing.

Hearing news reports that Casey is talking today and supposedly sharing information and being helpful and that she has expressed concern for her daughter, it will be interesting to see what the Bounty Hunter finds based on her claims.

Could it be she gave the child to someone to protect the child from someone? Does she owe someone money and is that person threatening the child? Was she desperately trying to pay that person back and that's why she stole so much money? Does that person have posession of the child? In this situation, I can see staying calm, avoiding involving others, being afraid to tell the authorities what is really going on, even if you are going to prison and even trying to throw them off track to protect the child.

It's a strange, strange case. I don't know how this will turn out. I am deeply afraid this will be a rage and vengeance type of killing and yet I am still hopeful that Caylee may be alive. It's not over until we have all the facts. In the meantime, I hope that Casy just comes clean, whatever it is and the sooner the better for all concerned.

 

[Rose Mom]

Well I though Leonard may have been on to something but now HE'S changing his story !
First he says "one week to find her" now he says "one week for her to be returned, then all holds are off and we're coming to get them"

http://www.wftv.com/video/17264089/index.html

I wish/pray just one person here would stick to what they said..... it's the Curse of the Casey!!!

 

[mydailyopinions]

Weird..

 

[LI_Mom]

Well I though Leonard may have been on to something but now HE'S changing his story !
First he says "one week to find her" now he says "one week for her to be returned, then all holds are off and we're coming to get them"

Neato.

Caylee's with some dangerous kidnapper but GP & now BH decide to sit on their fat asses & wait for the person to 'do the right thing.'

If not.... they just might start to get a little annoyed & be forced to rescue Caylee????


Gee, I hope they clear their schedules ahead of time cause it sure would be a shame if they got to next week & suddenly realized they were booked solid & couldn't possibly rescue Caylee that week after all.

Oh well, I'm sure they know what's best for Caylee.

 

[yosande]

I thought at the beginning that Caylee was alive and Casey was keeping her from gm out of spite. However, I now think Caylee is no longer alive, and that the gp are at the least in insane denial, and at most conspiracy after the fact. I don't think they had anything to do with her demise, but George getting in the car with that smell, and driving it home instead of calling LE right then says he already suspected something was wrong. The 7/3 posting of Cindy of myspace, and them not seeing Caylee for a month when they were the primary caregivers of Caylee tells me they knew something was terribly wrong, and Cindy says so in her third 911 call.

 

[GameTheory]

A thought provoking question and NOT PROVOKING for those who believe Caylee was not harmed by her mother (and I really wish I was one of you guys):

Take all the facts and info you know NOW about this case and just change Cayse with a male figure. What if this was about a father who did all that? A 22 year old father who is out partying and living with his girlfriend and telling her the baby is with his parents, he tells his parents the baby is with the nanny, he lies to the police that he had a job and actually guides them around offices, he stole money from his roommate and his parents, he abandoned his car with the terrible smells, he borrows a shovel from a neighbor, he stole gas tanks from his parents, he gives a name for a nanny that doesn't seem to exist, he gaves a fake address for the nanny, he claims the nanny called him and he heard the child but the police do not find such a call in his phone records.

If in this case we had a guy and not a woman = A MOTHER, the guy would have already been arrested for murder. As society and as women we find it more difficult to comprehend that Cayse harmed that baby either intentionally or by neglect and then went out partying and having fun for a month. Some of you cannot understnad how A MOTHER can do that to the baby. But let's look around us: so many mothers abuse their children, let their boyfriends abuse their chidren, they lock them without food and water to go out for a fun weekend, and so on. In their case there is NO MOTHER FILTER and this is why you find it difficult to understand. Cayse is very similar with Scot Peterson but Scott was a guy. It was more easy to ''understand'' his lack of empathy. But there are female Scott Peterson's out there and I am afraid Cayse is exactly that. A female Scott Peterson.

 

[mydailyopinions]

A thought provoking question and NOT PROVOKING for those who believe Caylee was not harmed by her mother (and I really wish I was one of you guys):

Take all the facts and info you know NOW about this case and just change Cayse with a male figure. What if this was about a father who did all that? A 22 year old father who is out partying and living with his girlfriend and telling her the baby is with his parents, he tells his parents the baby is with the nanny, he lies to the police that he had a job, he abandons his car with the terrible smells, he borrows a shover from a neighbor, he stole gaz tanks from his parents, he gives a name for a nanny that doesn't seem to exist, he gaves a fake address for the nanny, he claims the nanny called him and he heard the child but the police do not find such a call in his phone records.

If in this case we had a guy and not a woman = A MOTHER, the guy would have already been arrested for murder. As society and as women we find it more difficult to comprehend that Cayse harmed that baby either intentionally or by neglect and then went out partying and having fun for a month. Some of you cannot understnad how A MOTHER can do that to the baby. But let's look around us: so many mothers abuse their children, let their boyfriends abuse their chidren, they lock them without food and water to go out for a fun weekend, and so on. In their case there is NO MOTHER FILTER and this is why you find it difficult to understand. Cayse is very similar with Scot Peterson but Scott was a guy. It was more easy to ''understand'' his lack of empathy. But there are female Scott Peterson's out there and I am afraid Cayse is exactly that. A female Scott Peterson.

I 110% agree with you here.

 

[Thinking_Out_Loud]

You know what I don't get? Why didn't George call LE as soon as he opened that car door at the towing place? Why did he get in it and drive home? After all he had been a LE himself.

I have wondered that too. Evidently, the purse was also laid in the passenger seat. Cindy keeps asking what kind of woman would leave her purse behind. George would have had to have wondered that as well being an ex-cop. I think that I would have thought with the smell, abandoned car and purse, then there was foul play. Particularly, as a father, I would assume that he would have been worried that something happened to both is daughter and granddaughter. Granted, Casey was either calling or texting her mother every day... Something could have happened still where he should have called. My boyfriend has been saying, from the beginning, that George discovered Caylee's body in the trunk after he picked up the car. Then George disposed of it the way a cop would know how. I have to say that I did wonder that at first. Especially, after George keeps saying that he thinks that LE probably found "inconclusive" evidence in the trunk; instead of saying that the trunk tested negative for decomp, he said inconclusive. It just seemed like a play on words. As if he was saying that he cleaned the trunk and they weren't going to find anything.

In all honesty, I am so confused by the case that I would have to admit to flip-flopping. I can see there is definite reasonable doubt, but I do not think that Baez is smart enough to put that together properly. Another attorney could easily catch it all and mold a great defense with this case, but I don't think he's the guy. In other words, I am just not that worried about it. I think Casey is going back to jail, but I just do not know if it will be for murder. If the trunk, boots, and anything else tested positive for decomp and Caylee's DNA, then I'll be the first to say lock the key and do not let her out.

 

[Marina2]

The fact that Casey didn't report her daughter missing for a month, lied about Zenaida, and went about her life as if nothing happened at all for a month is very damning evidence. Jose Baez knows that this alone is going to be hard for a jury to ignore. He has, no doubt, told Casey this. Now comes the story of Caylee not going missing until July and that she is with a friend. This, he hopes, will negate any witness testimony to her acts during the month of June, i.e. partying and lying about where Caylee was. He also hopes it will cast reasonable doubt as to whether there was a dead body in the car when it was towed on June 30. After all, how can Caylee's body have been in the trunk in June if she wasn't missing until July? I am not swayed by any of this. I still feel the same as I did all along. I hope the prosecution will be able to prove this new story to be a lie because this will go a long way toward showing consciousness of guilt, a type of evidence very important to a circumstancial case. Most all of Caseys lies are directly related to her daughter being gone. For instance, the lie she told about talking to Caylee on the phone. This is a proven lie. An innocent person would not have offered up this lie. There are many more acts and lies that he will have to refute. Jose Baez has his work cut out for him. I wonder; what evidence will he bring to support the new story? What I'm trying to say I guess is that Casey's actions alone, without any other evidence, is enough to convince me that she killed her daughter and I believe Jose feels that it is enough to convince a jury as well.

 

[angelmom]

A thought provoking question and NOT PROVOKING for those who believe Caylee was not harmed by her mother (and I really wish I was one of you guys):

Take all the facts and info you know NOW about this case and just change Cayse with a male figure. What if this was about a father who did all that? A 22 year old father who is out partying and living with his girlfriend and telling her the baby is with his parents, he tells his parents the baby is with the nanny, he lies to the police that he had a job and actually guides them around offices, he stole money from his roommate and his parents, he abandoned his car with the terrible smells, he borrows a shovel from a neighbor, he stole gas tanks from his parents, he gives a name for a nanny that doesn't seem to exist, he gaves a fake address for the nanny, he claims the nanny called him and he heard the child but the police do not find such a call in his phone records.

If in this case we had a guy and not a woman = A MOTHER, the guy would have already been arrested for murder. As society and as women we find it more difficult to comprehend that Cayse harmed that baby either intentionally or by neglect and then went out partying and having fun for a month. Some of you cannot understnad how A MOTHER can do that to the baby. But let's look around us: so many mothers abuse their children, let their boyfriends abuse their chidren, they lock them without food and water to go out for a fun weekend, and so on. In their case there is NO MOTHER FILTER and this is why you find it difficult to understand. Cayse is very similar with Scot Peterson but Scott was a guy. It was more easy to ''understand'' his lack of empathy. But there are female Scott Peterson's out there and I am afraid Cayse is exactly that. A female Scott Peterson.

You are exactly right. I have had this thought, but couldn't put it into words this clearly. A man would have been strung up by now.

 

[heavenlydaze]

I havn't changed my mind about my original theory. Casey really DOESN'T know where Caylee is. The woman obviously partied out of control. Maybe she even remembers bits and pieces of something bad happening but can't pull the whole awful scene together because she was drunk/drugging. Probably on a binge for a couple of days. Being wacked out like she was, she couldn't recall the events and lied (like she always does)thinking she'd eventually be able to produce her.
If Caylee died while in her care, accidentally or otherwise...same thing. Screwed up and doesn't remember exactly what happened.
I could be wrong about this (I've been known to be wrong before :bang
But I think it's possible.
I'm with Tricia on the 'friends'. At least one of them knows something. Casey didn't 'party' alone, and even if it was an accident, someone helped 'after', or as Tricia speculated, Caylee was taken by one of them.
Picture this:
How very handy. Mom's passed out and here's this cute little girl, ripe for the taking...and I'm not talking about being taken to Mexico. It's sick, but it happens.