Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #7

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"On May 20, the three men were charged with an eight-count grand jury indictment that supersedes their previous charges. These include one count of premeditated first degree murder, two counts of especially aggravated kidnapping and three counts of aggravated rape."

BBM

How did the editor fall asleep? Do we know or not know who owns the property that the remains and skull were found? How is the article filled with inaccuracies? I understand that MSM gets it wrong or incomplete sometimes. This article is from 1-2 days ago. Should Holly's remains have been found on property that the Adams family owns it could be integral as to how long they remained there before being found.

JMO's

Bobo's abduction gained national attention and the family received strong support from the town of about 2,400 people located about 110 miles east of Memphis. Hopes that Bobo would be found alive were dashed in March when Zachary Adams, whose family has property about 6 miles from where Bobo's remains were found, was charged with murder and kidnapping.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/holly-bobo-remains-found-skull_n_5789688.html
 
[/B]


BBM Exactly. They kidnapped her and did what they did because that was their motive all along. Some have theorized that her abduction and murder was payback for drugs or to get back at either her, her boyfriend or family for something either she or they had done. While this is possible, I tend to doubt it. Those type of things happen on television and in movies a lot more than they happen in real life. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I just don't think so.

I also think another factor that the leader of the "A-Train" had been charged with numerous crimes and had gotten away with most of them serving little or no time in jail and had a feeling of invincibility about him. Meth addicts also tend to think this way.

Good morning!

I believe it is only human nature for some to think there just must be more to the motive in these kind of cases. Maybe its because it makes it more of a mystery and titillating. I have seen many theories put out through the years concerning cases that had not come to trial yet. Some reasonable and some very farfetched. In the end, when the evidence was presented the motive wasn't complex. Occam Razor does usually rule.

We know from what Dylan told the TBI that the very first day of Holly's kidnapping rapes were being done to this poor defenseless woman. Imo, the motive for taking her had immediately begun. I also think testimony will come out she was also being beaten on the very first day. The perps did that to let her know they were in full control of her fate giving her no way to defend herself. From what I have read that was said supposedly by the A-Train about Holly's abduction in the three years before the arrest was all about boasting how they raped her repeatedly.

Not one time that I have seen did they brag they took Holly for revenge or payback. Every sickening word they supposedly said to others was about Holly being kidnapped in ZAs home and being repeatedly raped.

While I suppose it may give some kind of comfort to some when believing she was targeted for some type of revenge there is absolutely nothing known that even remotely supports that notion. I guess if others can believe she was targeted for some other reason (revenge) than to be gang raped they think it wont happened to them. Those unsupported theories about revenge seemed to have been spawned by Clint Bobo naysayers on Topix and picked up elsewhere.

It reminds me a lot of the ridiculous accusations made during many cases. Example of only one of many: When the young OK girls (Whitaker and Placker) were cruelly murdered by the side of the road almost everyone was absolutely positive it was for revenge against the Placker family and the killer murdered them for a revenge/drug retaliation motive. Wrong. The truth has away of removing unfounded accusations/farfetched allegations about motives and it happened that the suspect didn't even know either girl or their families.

As Foxfire has said and linked many times for us meth heads can be very sadistic and extremely violent. They took her because they wanted to have her under their control. They took a young woman that had a completely different lifestyle than them. She was not someone who would give any of them the time of day if she had a choice in the matter and they knew it. I think they all became jacked up on meth and devised a plan how they could kidnap a beautiful young woman......restrain her and have their way with her as long as they wanted and she could do nothing to stop them. They liked the fear they imposed on Holly and the control they all felt knowing they held her fate in their sadistic hands.

I think they finally became bored with raping/beating her and finally murdered her.

I don't think the motive will be anything other than about power, control, and lust over another helpless human being. The motive for kidnapping her is painfully obvious.

IMO
 
I have a question. The special prosecutor recently went before a grand jury and got indictments against ZA, JA, and DA. These indictments are harsher than the original ones and list several counts of rape. There has been discussion about a video taken of these crimes. If the DA does in fact have this video in her possession, would she have shown it to the grand jury to secure these new indictments?
 
"On May 20, the three men were charged with an eight-count grand jury indictment that supersedes their previous charges. These include one count of premeditated first degree murder, two counts of especially aggravated kidnapping and three counts of aggravated rape."

BBM

How did the editor fall asleep? Do we know or not know who owns the property that the remains and skull were found? How is the article filled with inaccuracies? I understand that MSM gets it wrong or incomplete sometimes. This article is from 1-2 days ago. Should Holly's remains have been found on property that the Adams family owns it could be integral as to how long they remained there before being found.

JMO's

Great news, jggordo! Thanks.

I am thrilled to see the charges elevated especially the three counts of aggravated rape against all three.

On May 20, the three men were charged with an eight-count grand jury indictment that supersedes their previous charges. These include one count of premeditated first degree murder, two counts of especially aggravated kidnapping and three counts of aggravated rape.

For the GJ to up the charges on all three it has to mean the DA has received additional evidence to support the additional charges. DAs are allowed to return to a GJ for additional indicments if they have uncovered new evidence supporting further charges. That seems to be what has happened here.

It does make me wonder if the TBI has finally found the video they have been trying to find. The one that even Dylan says exists.

IMO
 
I have a question. The special prosecutor recently went before a grand jury and got indictments against ZA, JA, and DA. These indictments are harsher than the original ones and list several counts of rape. There has been discussion about a video taken of these crimes. If the DA does in fact have this video in her possession, would she have shown it to the grand jury to secure these new indictments?

You read my mind, Pearl.:)
 
Good morning oceanblueeyes, and pearl.. Great comments and food for thought by everyone this morning, imo..
 
Great news, jggordo! Thanks.

I am thrilled to see the charges elevated especially the three counts of aggravated rape against all three.

On May 20, the three men were charged with an eight-count grand jury indictment that supersedes their previous charges. These include one count of premeditated first degree murder, two counts of especially aggravated kidnapping and three counts of aggravated rape.

For the GJ to up the charges on all three it has to mean the DA has received additional evidence to support the additional charges. DAs are allowed to return to a GJ for additional indicments if they have uncovered new evidence supporting further charges. That seems to be what has happened here.

It does make me wonder if the TBI has finally found the video they have been trying to find. The one that even Dylan says exists.

IMO

BBM It would be great if it does exist and LE has it as it would surely be a damning piece of evidence against the "A-Train." I have a feeling that one of the three has confessed their involvement in the abduction, rape and murder to LE and has agreed to testify against the other two. If this is the case, he can tie them directly to the crime.
 
I am very intrigued by the three aggravated rape charges. That is a specific number and the DA would only want indictments on what she knows she can prove. The only logical explanation that I can see for the additional charges is they do have the video in their possession showing all three defendants raping and brutalizing Holly. They may have all participated in a gang rape of Holly at one time and the video may show them doing it three different times.

However; the video may not show all the rapes she suffered at the hands of these brutes but the DA is confident that she can prove three rapes occurred by these three defendants each.

Also something has lead them to believe that Dylan wasn't a bystander in the murder itself. So could there be two videos out there? One showing three gang rapes and another one showing Holly being murdered and who was involved?

This is a very interesting turn of events.

Maybe the Judge was correct when he told the ADA that she should take it as a compliment the defense attorneys want her off the case.:)

IMO
 
BBM It would be great if it does exist and LE has it as it would surely be a damning piece of evidence against the "A-Train." I have a feeling that one of the three has confessed their involvement in the abduction, rape and murder to LE and has agreed to testify against the other two. If this is the case, he can tie them directly to the crime.

I don't see the two main kidnapper/rapists/murderers confessing to anything. They were already hardened criminals.

And Dylan had already told the TBI that he raped Holly while she was inside ZAs home.

Something has changed drastically in this case and Dylan is being given no pass whatsoever.

I don't think he has confessed to further rapes or the murder. It seems if he had assisted them by confessing they wouldn't be seeking the same charges as the other two are now charged with.

I remember in the Cesar Lauren case the DA was still getting results back from the lab 17 days before trial time. I think this case has been ongoing continuously and the TBI has uncovered evidence to support the additional charges. Usually when someone confesses the DA doesn't just put that out alone hoping it stands. They have evidence in their possession to support what the person has said.

JMO
 
Now that the pieces of the puzzle of Holly Bobo's tragic abduction are beginning to come together.. It just doesn't get any worse than this, imo..
Sometimes I wonder, if the Bobo family hadn't been so persistent in their search and the community; men, women, and children, so heavely involved in the massive searches and lending a helping hand, if this case would have ever been solved..

"Bring Her Home" (Holly Bobo) by Heather Cohen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0BkJQM-ZPY
_______
Bring Holly Home by Kevin Medlin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gifeX4cw5dQ
 
I don't see the two main kidnapper/rapists/murderers confessing to anything. They were already hardened criminals.

And Dylan had already told the TBI that he raped Holly while she was inside ZAs home.

Something has changed drastically in this case and Dylan is being given no pass whatsoever.

I don't think he has confessed to further rapes or the murder. It seems if he had assisted them by confessing they wouldn't be seeking the same charges as the other two are now charged with.

I remember in the Cesar Lauren case the DA was still getting results back from the lab 17 days before trial time. I think this case has been ongoing continuously and the TBI has uncovered evidence to support the additional charges. Usually when someone confesses the DA doesn't just put that out alone hoping it stands. They have evidence in their possession to support what the person has said.

JMO

BBM We are in total agreement that something has changed to bolster the prosecution's case and I agree with everything you are saying, especially the two main perps would never confess or admit to anything. I believe that Dylan is the one talking. He did admit earlier to raping Holly, but I am not sure he ever implicated the other two. MOO, but I can't help but think that he has since come "completely clean" admitting that he was involved in all three parts of the crime (abduction, rape & murder) and indicated that the other two were equally if not more involved, hoping this would spare him the death penalty. It isn't uncommon for perps to point the finger at the other or others in an attempt to minimize the severity of their own punishment.

If the video does exist and shows Holly being violated, there is also a chance that whomever took the video (if is not one of the A-Train members) could be talking as well.

The reason I believe that LE has more than a video is...the video would only show the rapes and not the actual abduction or the murder. At least I highly doubt they have those parts of the crimes on video, but being as sadistic as they are you can never tell. A video of the rapes would strengthen the abduction charges by simply showing what was happening to Holly (being gang-raped) proving that was why she was abducted. LE had to have additional information to bump up the murder charges and I believe that testimony such as Dylan's would do just that!

Lets hope that the prosecution's case is solid and the perps that kidnapped, violated and snuffed out Holly's life can be put away for good.

Again, this MOO!!
 
TedMac, if they have a rape video, it (in conjunction with proof that she had been abducted by "someone" and she had been murdered by "someone") would be all they would need to prove abduction, rape, and murder. They wouldn't need a separate video of the moment she was taken, nor of the moment she was killed.

The fact of abduction by these defendants would be seen on display by her being held in the rape video (legally, she is "abducted" at that point). The fact of murder could be deduced BARD imo by the fact that they indisputably had her imprisoned in such a video, and then she showed up murdered and discarded at a later date (without ever having gone back to family and civilization).

I do think we're jumping to conclusions with the assumption that these cleaned up and added indictments flow from the emergence of a video, but it's certainly possible.
 
I am simply glad that someone (even though not the general public) has been shown evidence. The grand jury indictment gives me hope. Jurors were presented evidence. Of what variety is unknown but they were shown something by golly and they indicted. I am much relieved by that.
 
TedMac, if they have a rape video, it (in conjunction with proof that she had been abducted by "someone" and she had been murdered by "someone") would be all they would need to prove abduction, rape, and murder. They wouldn't need a separate video of the moment she was taken, nor of the moment she was killed.

The fact of abduction by these defendants would be seen on display by her being held in the rape video (legally, she is "abducted" at that point). The fact of murder could be deduced BARD imo by the fact that they indisputably had her imprisoned in such a video, and then she showed up murdered and discarded at a later date (without ever having gone back to family and civilization).

I do think we're jumping to conclusions with the assumption that these cleaned up and added indictments flow from the emergence of a video, but it's certainly possible.


BBM I agree that the existence of the video is in question. It has been the subject of much debate on this thread. That is why I started my 2nd paragraph with "If the video does exist...". Dylan admitted earlier that he had raped Holly. I just think he is the A-Team's weak link and LE was able to get him to admit to being a part of the entire scheme (abduction, rape & murder) and he in turn implicated the other two. The video would be damning to the defense, but Dylan's testimony that all three of them were involved would hit pretty hard as well.

I agree that if the video exists and shows her being raped, that would prove not only the rape, but the other crimes as well.

Lastly, as I always say this is MOO.
 
I am simply glad that someone (even though not the general public) has been shown evidence. The grand jury indictment gives me hope. Jurors were presented evidence. Of what variety is unknown but they were shown something by golly and they indicted. I am much relieved by that.

I agree with you, and also this is now two separate Grand Jury's both concur that there is enough evidence to proceed to trial. To me that is twice as good. I am wondering with these new and fresh indictments if it resets the clock ticking on discovery. With new arraignments to take place June 3rd how much time will be allowed then by the Judge for "discovery"?

JMO's
 
I agree with you, and also this is now two separate Grand Jury's both concur that there is enough evidence to proceed to trial.

Respectfully, this doesn't move the needle for me at all. It doesn't mean there is more evidence, it doesn't mean there is any evidence that would stand up to cross examination, it doesn't mean it would prove anything BARD, and it doesn't mean any of it has ever been provided to the defense as the law mandates.

Any or all of those could be true, of course ...but we still have no way to know.

As to whether a game of "replace the indictment" will extend the latitude for discovery, it shouldn't (otherwise, you could keep defendants incarcerated forever without a trial and without ever providing disclosure to them as to what evidence there is against them, simply by redoing indictments as many times as you want) ...but with this judge, I suspect it will give him an excuse to simply ignore the prior blatant non-performance on discovery.
 
[/B]

BBM I agree that the existence of the video is in question. It has been the subject of much debate on this thread. That is why I started my 2nd paragraph with "If the video does exist...". Dylan admitted earlier that he had raped Holly. I just think he is the A-Team's weak link and LE was able to get him to admit to being a part of the entire scheme (abduction, rape & murder) and he in turn implicated the other two. The video would be damning to the defense, but Dylan's testimony that all three of them were involved would hit pretty hard as well.

I agree that if the video exists and shows her being raped, that would prove not only the rape, but the other crimes as well.

Lastly, as I always say this is MOO.

I don't think anyone is jumping to conclusion that it IS proof positive the video tape. I haven't seen any poster say it IS the video and only think it could be based on the new indictments.

However; if the video has been located and viewed by the investigators/ADA it would fully explain why additional indictments have now been handed down on all three suspects. It would also explain the charges of rape x3 on all three.

I do question though if these indictments were brought about based on what was said by Dylan but lets say its true. If I was a grand juror I would not indict the other two based solely on the words of one of the participants when I know they have a vested interest to lie. I would expect more supporting evidence to make sure the allegations are true against the co-conpirators and were not done because he was trying to place blame and involve others for his own wrongdoing.

I think Dylan told all he was going to tell when he first admitted he had raped Holly. Iirc, I did read that Dylan was no longer talking with the TBI. I am sure once charged with rape his lawyer advised him to have no verbal contact with LE anymore.

I think he only admitted to the rape because he isn't very smart and felt they may have found forensic evidence showing he did. Since LE can legally willfully lie to a suspect, who knows, maybe they told him way back when they were talking to him that they know he raped Holly because they found his DNA. I do agree at that time DA was certainly the weakest link in the A-Train.

But since Dylan's first charges, I cant see Dylan's attorney agreeing to let him speak openly all the while severely incriminating himself all the way to possibly death row. If he did speak with them to tell what all the others had done his lawyer would make sure it would be to DAs advantage somehow don't you think? Instead they threw the book at him. Heck I have seen the actual murderers get sweetheart deals when they turned state's evidence against the mastermind who plotted the murder. In the Rabbi Neulander case one of the hit men only received 10 years.

I feel it's something else. Something she has in her possession now that she didn't have earlier where she knows she can prove that all three were involved with the kidnapping, three rapes per defendant and murder. Even if ZAs was the one who initially kidnapped her from her home they would all be guilty of kidnapping since they were involved in holding her against her will in his home. But rapes are separate acts. Each one must commit the act of rape to be charged and so it is with murder as well.

Is it the video? No one knows at this point, but if it is it is a painful reminder of another heinous case that happened in May, 2005 when Joseph Duncan/pedophile/serial killer videoed every horrific moment as he was kidnapping, raping, torturing, Shasta and Dylan Greone and finally murdering little Dylan Greone. He had it all on video just like Mel Ignato taped the entire beating, rape, torture, and murder of his girlfriend.

Do I think the video exist? Yes, I most certainly think it does. Not only did SK say Pearcy showed it to her but Dylan Adams also says it exists.

While I cannot begin to even imagine the pain and suffering it will cause the Bobo family if it does exist and is brought into the trial as evidence...it will be the evidence that puts the nail in the coffin of each and every one of these sub-humans.

The one thing that I have always wanted to know. What convinced the Bobo parents that Holly was indeed dead and had been murdered after refusing to believe it for three long years? With parents its not a beyond a reasonable doubt threshold when it comes to the death of their child. For parents it has to be something so convincing that it is beyond all doubt. I do hope we learn what it was as the cases go forward.

I feel much better now because of the latest events. I do think this ADA is going to prove her case on all three. I have read she is an expert in death penalty cases and tough.

There is so much we do not know about the evidence they have and it shows even now no grass is growing beneath LE/ADAs feet.

Peace be with the Bobo family.

IMO
 
I agree with you, and also this is now two separate Grand Jury's both concur that there is enough evidence to proceed to trial. To me that is twice as good. I am wondering with these new and fresh indictments if it resets the clock ticking on discovery. With new arraignments to take place June 3rd how much time will be allowed then by the Judge for "discovery"?

JMO's

And I agree with both of you.

For an ADA to go to a GJ for additional charges she/he must present new evidence that supports those additional charges. While some seem to think all that is important to a Prosecutor is just getting the indictments lol :)...that simply is not based in fact. All Prosecutors are very mindful that all indictments must be proven by them in a court of law BARD. I feel this ADA is very confident about the cases she is going to bring to trial.

Whatever the investigators have uncovered is going to show and prove every element necessary for all three cases. The justice system is an adversarial system. DAs or special prosecutors don't bring cases they don't think they can win. They don't bring the cases either if their evidence is weak especially death penalty cases.

IMO
 
As Foxfire has said and linked many times for us meth heads can be very sadistic and extremely violent. They took her because they wanted to have her under their control. They took a young woman that had a completely different lifestyle than them. She was not someone who would give any of them the time of day if she had a choice in the matter and they knew it. I think they all became jacked up on meth and devised a plan how they could kidnap a beautiful young woman......restrain her and have their way with her as long as they wanted and she could do nothing to stop them. They liked the fear they imposed on Holly and the control they all felt knowing they held her fate in their sadistic hands.

I think they finally became bored with raping/beating her and finally murdered her.

I don't think the motive will be anything other than about power, control, and lust over another helpless human being. The motive for kidnapping her is painfully obvious.

IMO

RSBM for focus. I have always believed this to be what happened and as close as we will ever come to understanding the why of it. Well put.
 
TBI director: Bobo suspect tried smuggling meth into jail
<snipped & BBM for Focus>
http://www.fox10tv.com/story/249494...-tried-smuggling-meth-into-jail#ixzz3amAnRg00

Senators convened for a judiciary committee hearing to look at several bills aimed at curbing meth use in Tennessee, and TBI Director Mark Gwyn shared some pains of the drug from the front lines of law enforcement.
TBI director: Bobo suspect tried smuggling meth into jail
I've been battling this meth issue for a long time," Gwyn said.

Gwyn then mentioned a name that those like state Sen. John Stevens, R-Huntingdon, didn't expect to hear: Holly Bobo.
"That was surprising to me that that was brought up, but it's relevant," Stevens said.
It's relevant in this hearing because Gwyn said Bobo's case has to do with meth.

"I worked one of the first methamphetamine-related murders back into the 90s, where a guy kidnapped two young men, tortured them for seven days, killed both of them, threw them off into Center Hill Lake," Gwyn said. "Fast-forward to 2014, and I thought in my career that would be the only time I would ever see anything like that."
________________________________________
The 1990's Methamphetamine Case That TBI Director Mark Gwyn is Referencing
PDF]State of Tennessee vs. James Christopher Tatrow
www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/.../tatrowjc.pdf
Tennessee Supreme Court
Nov 2, 1998
http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/OPINIONS/tcca/PDF/984/tatrowjc.pdf
 
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