Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #2 ***ARREST***

[zwiebel]

In little April Jone's case in England, police only ever found blood stains and tiny fragments of bone in a fireplace. It was enough for them to make an arrest and get a confession (of sorts) out of her murderer. But there was never any announcement of a body found because of that, as I recollect. Just that 'evidence' of her death had been found.

Is it just me, or does the link on the home page not really lead to this thread? When I follow it, I just get lost in a load of closed threads.....

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, it was just fragments. Special permission had to be granted in order to hold an inquest in the absence of a body. I'm not sure if they even ever managed to get conclusive DNA.

April's killer got life, anyhow. He will never be released. And he's not having an easy time in prison...
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-24105518

 

[ThoughtFox]

My theory is that ZA kept something surrounding the death of Holly, maybe clothing or jewelry, maybe even bones/hair or who knows what. He might have taken photographs. *shudder* You can use your imagination, but that would be proof that she was dead without having a body.

Possibly they found Holly's DNA (blood/hair/bodily fluids) in one of those cars they hauled away.

Every time remains are found in the Southeast we have to go through the gory truth that if the skeleton has been out in the woods for three years there's not going to be much left, and it's going to be scattered by wild animals, everything from coyotes to wild hogs.

If ZA ever got nervous, he might have made sure the skeleton washed away in a flood. We had record-breaking rainfall last year. There are ponds and rivers all over the place. That would be a good reason why he himself might not know where her remains are at this time.

All they really need is a small bone fragment with Holly's DNA on the Adams property to prove she is dead. Why would they need to search all over the place if they think she died there?

 

[~n/t~]

In little April Jone's case in England, police only ever found blood stains and tiny fragments of bone in a fireplace. It was enough for them to make an arrest and get a confession (of sorts) out of her murderer. But there was never any announcement of a body found because of that, as I recollect. Just that 'evidence' of her death had been found.

Is it just me, or does the link on the home page not really lead to this thread? When I follow it, I just get lost in a load of closed threads.....

It's not just you. I've done it a few times and I'm not sure why this thread doesn't appear with the rest. I now click on hot cases and locate it that way. :dunno:

 

[SisterWolf]

Would someone "talking" and confessing to being involved in a part of the kidnapping or disposal of body or murder, be enough evidence to charge ZA with 1st degree murder? How much weight would a co-accused's or witness testimony be worth? I was just wondering if they haven't got a body or remains to prove she was murdered, would someone else's testimony that they were there and saw her killed be enough to prove that ZA murdered her?

And if they have found remains, what would be the purpose for keeping that from the public? What benefit could it have? To control other perps potentially involved to use against them? To lay charges against other people when more evidence is found?
I'm just really stunned that they haven't said either way - like other people have said, I've never seen a case before where they didn't release that information, especially a case where they're considering the DP. Would they be able to prosecute a DP case with no remains? Has that ever been done before?

 

[SisterWolf]

Oh, and I just wanted to say, I'm so relieved to read here instead of Topix. It's nice to be able to read a properly constructed sentence and intelligent posts The bickering and insults were doing my head in!

 

[~n/t~]

Would someone "talking" and confessing to being involved in a part of the kidnapping or disposal of body or murder, be enough evidence to charge ZA with 1st degree murder? How much weight would a co-accused's or witness testimony be worth? I was just wondering if they haven't got a body or remains to prove she was murdered, would someone else's testimony that they were there and saw her killed be enough to prove that ZA murdered her?

And if they have found remains, what would be the purpose for keeping that from the public? What benefit could it have? To control other perps potentially involved to use against them? To lay charges against other people when more evidence is found?
I'm just really stunned that they haven't said either way - like other people have said, I've never seen a case before where they didn't release that information, especially a case where they're considering the DP. Would they be able to prosecute a DP case with no remains? Has that ever been done before?

IMO an informant would not be enough.

The only reasons I can think of that they would keep it from the public would be they haven't found her remains and / or they're waiting for a confession from the suspect.

Furthermore, the TBI has requested people come forward with information. They're not done investigating IMO and that's what scares me.

No, I don't have faith in TBI. I apologize if that offends anyone.

Holly should have been located 3 years ago. I'm angry that it's taken this long and we don't even have the answers as to what happened to her except that a meth addicted psychopath is the suspect.

 

[SisterWolf]

IMO an informant would not be enough.

The only reasons I can think of that they would keep it from the public would be they haven't found her remains and / or they're waiting for a confession from the suspect.

Furthermore, the TBI has requested people come forward with information. They're not done investigating IMO and that's what scares me.

No, I don't have faith in TBI. I apologize if that offends anyone.

Holly should have been located 3 years ago. I'm angry that it's taken this long and we don't even have the answers as to what happened to her except that a meth addicted psychopath is the suspect.

Thanks for answering my questions! I have to say that I agree with you. I don't know much about the TBI but I can understand anyone's lack of faith in them if it's taken 3 years just to get this far, and it seems only because the FBI eventually got involved.

It's concerning that if they knew or suspected ZA and Co. as early on as they say they did, that they let them run around loose doing whatever they wanted and let them get away with pretty much everything they did, putting the public at risk for 3 years. It'll be interesting to see what they knew and when, when we finally hear their evidence. I really hope they didn't put the public at risk.

I'm not sure how it's possible that ZA will get a fair trial. Just listening to the locals on Topix shows they're more than ready to convict him and sentence him to death even though we haven't heard one single piece of evidence that he committed this crime. The lynch mob mentality is pretty concerning. The only time I've ever seen lynch mob behaviour from the public is when the state has released some pretty strong and irrefutable evidence tying the accused to the crime. Except for the Lindy Chamberlain case (Australia) although that was in the 1970s. One would hope we'd have evolved a bit since then.

 

[~n/t~]

Here is one no body death penalty case

http://www.ydr.com/crime/ci_24467535/death-penalty-sought-ummad-rushdi-baby-kidnap-case

 

[~n/t~]

Thanks for answering my questions! I have to say that I agree with you. I don't know much about the TBI but I can understand anyone's lack of faith in them if it's taken 3 years just to get this far, and it seems only because the FBI eventually got involved.

It's concerning that if they knew or suspected ZA and Co. as early on as they say they did, that they let them run around loose doing whatever they wanted and let them get away with pretty much everything they did, putting the public at risk for 3 years. It'll be interesting to see what they knew and when, when we finally hear their evidence. I really hope they didn't put the public at risk.

I'm not sure how it's possible that ZA will get a fair trial. Just listening to the locals on Topix shows they're more than ready to convict him and sentence him to death even though we haven't heard one single piece of evidence that he committed this crime. The lynch mob mentality is pretty concerning. The only time I've ever seen lynch mob behaviour from the public is when the state has released some pretty strong and irrefutable evidence tying the accused to the crime. Except for the Lindy Chamberlain case (Australia) although that was in the 1970s. One would hope we'd have evolved a bit since then.

Same thing happened in the Casey Anthony case. She was acquitted. Go figure.

 

[tlcya]

I am of the opinion that no remains were found but strong evidence pointing to Holly's death was found during the searches.

 

[Foxfire]

The appeal in the case that TBI Director Mark Gwyn compared the HB case too;

http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/OPINIONS/tcca/PDF/984/tatrowjc.pdf

IN THE COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS OF TENNESSEE
AT KNOXVILLE
APRIL, 1998 SESSION
STATE OF TENNESSEE, ) No. 03C01-9707-CR-00299

Appellee )
Cumberland County
vs. )
Honorable John Turnbull, Judge
JAMES CHRISTOPHER TATROW, )
(Felony Murder, Especially Aggravated
Appellant ) Kidnapping)

OPINION
A jury in Cumberland County Criminal Court convicted the defendant,
James Christopher Tatrow, of two counts of felony murder and two counts of
especially aggravated kidnapping in the deaths of Roger Zammit and John Harry.
The defendant was also convicted of two counts of premeditated and deliberate
murder of the same victims. The trial court set aside those verdicts, however, as
the thirteenth juror. See Tenn. R. Crim. P. 33 (f). In the sentencing phase, the jury
declined to impose the death penalty or life without parole and sentenced the
defendant to serve life sentences with the possibility of parole. At the conclusion
of a sentencing hearing, the trial court ordered the defendant to serve two
consecutive life sentences concurrently with sentences of 22 years for the
kidnapping convictions. The defendant now challenges the validity of the
convictions and the propriety of consecutive sentencing pursuant to Rule 3 of the
Tennessee Rules of Appellate Procedure.
<sniped - read more>

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/OPINIONS/tcca/PDF/984/tatrowjc.pdf Pg 10

In support of his insanity defense, the defendant offered the testimony
of Dr. Donna Segar, a physician who is board certified in toxicology, and Dr.
William D. Kenner, a psychiatrist at the St. Louis Psychoanalytic Institute. Dr. Segar
testified that regular, long term use of substantial amounts of methamphetamine
and cocaine would completely change one&#8217;s personality.9

<sniped -Read More>

.&#8221; Methamphetamine produces an increase of territorial
aggression and cocaine decreases inhibitions and impairs judgment. The doctor
concluded that at the time of the murders the defendant was suffering from an

* Amphetamine-induced paranoid psychosis that would have a significant impact on his ability to conform his behavior and to self-examine his thinking and actions."
__________

'If presented with overwhelming evidence by the prosecution in the Holly Bobo kidnapping/murder'.
'Was the Meth smuggling incident by ZA, while being transferred to another Jail, a calculated strategy for a later meth addiction based insanity defense'?

__________
http://www.wsmv.com/story/24949421/tbi-director-bobo-suspect-tried-smuggling-meth-into-jail
TBI director: Bobo suspect tried smuggling meth into jail-

But, last week, came a big break in the case.

"We made an arrest. Lo and behold, the person has several meth-related charges. And the night we arrested him, he was trying to get meth into the jail," Gwyn said.

That person is Zachary Adams, who was first taken to the Decatur County Jail. The TBI says Adams smuggled meth into jail when he was transferred to Chester County.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

IMO an informant would not be enough.

The only reasons I can think of that they would keep it from the public would be they haven't found her remains and / or they're waiting for a confession from the suspect.

Furthermore, the TBI has requested people come forward with information. They're not done investigating IMO and that's what scares me.

No, I don't have faith in TBI. I apologize if that offends anyone.

Holly should have been located 3 years ago. I'm angry that it's taken this long and we don't even have the answers as to what happened to her except that a meth addicted psychopath is the suspect.

BBM: I totally agree !

IMO, this investigation was botched since day 1 ... and there should be an explanation as to WHY this investigation did not move at all for 3 years.

I have gone over to that other site :facepalm: ... lots of "rumors" and :crazy: there ... But IMO, "where there is smoke there is fire" ... ZA's name and others' names have been thrown around at "that place" for some time now, even before ZA was arrested.

So WHY did it take this long for LE to investigate ZA, who was NO stranger to LE with over 25 arrests :banghead: ... good grief, he was arrested just days before Holly was abducted and murdered :banghead:

The Bobo Family deserves answers !

lease:

 

[SisterWolf]

http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/OPINIONS/tcca/PDF/984/tatrowjc.pdf Pg 10

In support of his insanity defense, the defendant offered the testimony
of Dr. Donna Segar, a physician who is board certified in toxicology, and Dr.
William D. Kenner, a psychiatrist at the St. Louis Psychoanalytic Institute. Dr. Segar
testified that regular, long term use of substantial amounts of methamphetamine
and cocaine would completely change one’s personality.9

<sniped -Read More>

.” Methamphetamine produces an increase of territorial
aggression and cocaine decreases inhibitions and impairs judgment. The doctor
concluded that at the time of the murders the defendant was suffering from an

* Amphetamine-induced paranoid psychosis that would have a significant impact on his ability to conform his behavior and to self-examine his thinking and actions."
__________

'If presented with overwhelming evidence by the prosecution in the Holly Bobo kidnapping/murder'.
'Was the Meth smuggling incident by ZA, while being transferred to another Jail, a calculated strategy for a later meth addiction based insanity defense'?

__________
http://www.wsmv.com/story/24949421/tbi-director-bobo-suspect-tried-smuggling-meth-into-jail
TBI director: Bobo suspect tried smuggling meth into jail-

But, last week, came a big break in the case.

"We made an arrest. Lo and behold, the person has several meth-related charges. And the night we arrested him, he was trying to get meth into the jail," Gwyn said.

That person is Zachary Adams, who was first taken to the Decatur County Jail. The TBI says Adams smuggled meth into jail when he was transferred to Chester County.

I don't know that they'd even need that incident to show that he's a meth-addict. Apparently he's been doing it for 15 years! Pretty sure anyone who could testify to that would guarantee he is seen as having a meth addiction. Whether you can use that as an insanity defence is a different story - I don't know enough about insanity defences to say whether that's plausible.

 

[Kimster]

It's not just you. I've done it a few times and I'm not sure why this thread doesn't appear with the rest. I now click on hot cases and locate it that way. :dunno:

I checked the link just now and scrolled down and found this thread without issue. The link goes to the subforum, not the thread. That's done when new threads are prone to be opened frequently and there isn't someone available to update the link. Only admins have the ability to make changes to the front page.

A little tidbit from behind the scenes to start out the week.

 

[Foxfire]

I don't know that they'd even need that incident to show that he's a meth-addict. Apparently he's been doing it for 15 years! Pretty sure anyone who could testify to that would guarantee he is seen as having a meth addiction. Whether you can use that as an insanity defence is a different story - I don't know enough about insanity defences to say whether that's plausible.

http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/OPINIONS/tcca/PDF/984/tatrowjc.pdf

SisterWolf. the temporary insanity due to meth addiction defense was the strategy used in the case that TBI Director Mark Gwyn used in the comparison to the Holly Bobo kidnapping/murder. The James Christopher Tatrow, kidnapping/murder case..

TBI director: Bobo suspect tried smuggling meth into jail
http://www.wsmv.com/story/24949421/tbi-director-bobo-suspect-tried-smuggling-meth-into-jail

 

[Foxfire]

BBM: I totally agree !

IMO, this investigation was botched since day 1 ... and there should be an explanation as to WHY this investigation did not move at all for 3 years.

I have gone over to that other site :facepalm: ... lots of "rumors" and :crazy: there ... But IMO, "where there is smoke there is fire" ... ZA's name and others' names have been thrown around at "that place" for some time now, even before ZA was arrested.

So WHY did it take this long for LE to investigate ZA, who was NO stranger to LE with over 25 arrests :banghead: ... good grief, he was arrested just days before Holly was abducted and murdered :banghead:

The Bobo Family deserves answers !

lease:

RE: "where there is smoke there is fire"

Imo, the Heather Sullivan attempted abduction was the first sign of fire leading up to HB's abduction. HS's attempted abduction should have been treated as a possible ignition source of an ensuing conflagration, yet it was treated only as a false alarm by first re-sponders, imo..

Imo, a competent investigation in HS's case may have led to a completely different outcome in the Holly Bobo tragedy, and the Parsons, TN community's equivalent to 09/11/2001, if ZA is determined to be her attacker in January 2011...

<HS video will play after the Missing Plane video>
http://fox17.com/news/features/top-...ore-bobo-disappearedmikayla-lewis-20101.shtml

Holly Bobo Connection?
The TBI is remaining tight-lipped on any other suspects in the Bobo murder or any connections to other attacks like Heather Sullivan.

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20140316/NEWS01/303160005/Why-wasn-t-Zachary-Adams-behind-bars-

Why wasn't Zachary Adams behind bars?
Some blame justice system in Holly Bobo's death, but Adams' history reflects normal judicial practice in state of Tennessee

 

[~n/t~]

http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/OPINIONS/tcca/PDF/984/tatrowjc.pdf Pg 10

In support of his insanity defense, the defendant offered the testimony
of Dr. Donna Segar, a physician who is board certified in toxicology, and Dr.
William D. Kenner, a psychiatrist at the St. Louis Psychoanalytic Institute. Dr. Segar
testified that regular, long term use of substantial amounts of methamphetamine
and cocaine would completely change one’s personality.9

<sniped -Read More>

.” Methamphetamine produces an increase of territorial
aggression and cocaine decreases inhibitions and impairs judgment. The doctor
concluded that at the time of the murders the defendant was suffering from an

* Amphetamine-induced paranoid psychosis that would have a significant impact on his ability to conform his behavior and to self-examine his thinking and actions."
__________

'If presented with overwhelming evidence by the prosecution in the Holly Bobo kidnapping/murder'.
'Was the Meth smuggling incident by ZA, while being transferred to another Jail, a calculated strategy for a later meth addiction based insanity defense'?

__________
http://www.wsmv.com/story/24949421/tbi-director-bobo-suspect-tried-smuggling-meth-into-jail
TBI director: Bobo suspect tried smuggling meth into jail-
Y
But, last week, came a big break in the case.

"We made an arrest. Lo and behold, the person has several meth-related charges. And the night we arrested him, he was trying to get meth into the jail," Gwyn said.

That person is Zachary Adams, who was first taken to the Decatur County Jail. The TBI says Adams smuggled meth into jail when he was transferred to Chester County.

Drug addiction doesn't qualify for an insanity defense, IMO