Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #2 ***ARREST***

[Foxfire]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I intend to post my full Holly Bobo timeline on Websleuths' Media and Timeline blog within the week. That will answer many questions about search areas and a ton of other historical details. But regarding some of the recent posts:

If the authorities possessed remains, they would have been returned to the family by now, for proper internment. If the authorities possessed unequivocal DNA evidence, they would have successfully used this evidence to coerce the suspect for a full confession or plea agreement by now. If the authorities had any equally powerful combination of damning physical evidence (Holly's purse, videos of the crime, etc.), they would not be resorting to he-said, she-said tactics (interrogation of the suspect's jailed brother, the aggravated assault charge arrest that occurred 3 WEEKS after the actual incident, and of course the 'jailhouse confession' by the suspect (threating his brother) that led to the FBI filing additional charges. And now, we have the prosecution hinting that the Discovery process (sharing of factual evidence with the Defense) will take a long time.

I am not forming an opinion about the suspect. But I am forming an opinion that this is largely a circumstantial case and that the authorities prefer a plea-deal and no trial. To prove me wrong (and I hope that they do), all the prosecutors have to do is lay out their strongest evidence at a press conference. Why are the prosecutors not doing this? They have their suspect in jail. Why is there still such a veil of secrecy over this case?

Mr Noatak, TN murder victim Karen Swift's remains were not returned to her family for almost three months after her discovery.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/11/karen-swifts-funeral_n_1258314.html



Imo, this is an indication that the HB kidnapping and murder investigation is ongoing and that there will be additional arrests...

Why do you believe that when comparing Karen's case? There have been no arrests in Karen's case.

N/T, I was replying to MR. Noatak comment that if remains were located on the searches that they would be returned to the family by now.

RE: Karen Swift:

Imo, although unlikely related to HB's abduction/murder, KS's case will have a meth connection, as well as a slight acquaintance/stranger predator involvement. Ironically, KS remains were located across from the historical Bledsoe cemetery, near three iron crosses, on a day followed by a Blood Moon..
N/T, imo, there is no such thing as a perfect crime, only imperfect investigations..

 

[Wonless]

So true Wonless. I posted a link for TN Correction Employees arrested for supplying drugs to inmates a few pages back.. Seems, in TN, you can get anything while in jail for a price.. Even get out of jail free cards..

Lets hope that no innocent people get out of jail free.

 

[tlcya]

N/T, I was replying to MR. Noatak comment that if remains were located on the searches that they would be returned to the family by now.

RE: Karen Swift:

Imo, although unlikely related to HB's abduction/murder, KS's case will have a meth connection, as well as a slight acquaintance/stranger predator involvement. Ironically, KS remains were located across from the historical Bledsoe cemetery, near three iron crosses, on a day followed by a Blood Moon..
N/T, imo, there is no such thing as a perfect crime, only imperfect investigations..

I am not familiar with Karen Swift case, were those remains recovered but the information of said recovery withheld from public until the remains were returned/

Not being argumentative: but wanted to say that I have seen several cases in recent years where the remains were not turned over to family for extended periods after they were recovered. The difference I am seeing in Holly's case is the persistent rumor/belief that remains of Holly were indeed recovered but that fact is for some reason being withheld from the general public.

I do not buy it.

So the only case comparisons that might be helpful to me moving from the opinion that remains were not recovered in this case would be those where remains were recovered but for some reason, the information was not released to the public - even after family notification and even after an arrest and charge of murder.

ETA otherwise it is apples and oranges IMO

 

[Foxfire]

I am not familiar with Karen Swift case, were those remains recovered but the information of said recovery withheld from public until the remains were returned/

Not being argumentative: but wanted to say that I have seen several cases in recent years where the remains were not turned over to family for extended periods after they were recovered. The difference I am seeing in Holly's case is the persistent rumor/belief that remains of Holly were indeed recovered but that fact is for some reason being withheld from the general public.

I do not buy it.

So the only case comparisons that might be helpful to me moving from the opinion that remains were not recovered in this case would be those where remains were recovered but for some reason, the information was not released to the public - even after family notification and even after an arrest and charge of murder.

ETA otherwise it is apples and oranges IMO

Tlcya, I am not so sure that it is the public that investigators are keeping in the dark as to whether HB's remains were located during the search of ZA's property which began on Feb 28, 2014. Imo, it may be hold back info to decipher the truth in the continuing investigation. The following ms media report/video speaks volumes at about the 3 minute mark, imo;

TBI - Executing search warrants in the Holly Bobo Disappearance WSMV TV 4

http://www.wsmv.com/story/24851714/...arrants-in-connection-with-bobo-disappearance

 

[SmoothOperator]

Regarding Holly's remains being located, if so why there has been no official statement informing the public they were located, and that if indeed they had been located that Holly's remains would have already been returned to her family for their laying her to rest in whatever way they see fitting.

I do believe it quite possible that Holly's remains were located at some point leading up to the charges of especially aggravated kidnapping, and first degree murder filed on Zach Adams. Or atleast some amount of her remains located, but possibly not all of her remains. If it is true and some/all of Holly's remains have been located I do find it also possible that this info would not yet have been officially confirmed to the public for reasons having to do with the investigation not yet complete, but rather still very active and ongoing with the goal being further charges filed on persons not yet arrested for crimes directly concerning Holly.

Regarding Holly's remains would have already been turned over to her family. I do not at all believe that to be the case even if there wasn't an ongoing active investigation still taking place with other individuals in LE's cross hairs(though, to be clear, again I do very much believe there is active pursuit of investigating with possible other individuals charged in Holly's case). I believe there to be various reasons as to why Holly's remains would not yet have been turned over to family, all having to do with evidence, incomplete, and the ongoing pursuit of other individuals being charged in connection with Holly's abduction and murder.

All jmo, tho and I do believe that justice is very much coming for Holly, and that investigators goal is to seek justice served ON ANY/ALL INVOLVED in Holly's death.

 

[tlcya]

Tlcya, I am not so sure that it is the public that investigators are keeping in the dark as to whether HB's remains were located during the search of ZA's property which began on Feb 28, 2014. Imo, it may be hold back info to decipher the truth in the continuing investigation. The following ms media report/video speaks volumes at about the 3 minute mark, imo;

TBI - Executing search warrants in the Holly Bobo Disappearance WSMV TV 4

http://www.wsmv.com/story/24851714/...arrants-in-connection-with-bobo-disappearance

thank you for understanding that I was quoting yours in a sincere attempt to view things from another perspective than my own and responding as you did.

I agree, the scene being shown by air at the 3 min mark is very interesting and indicates to me that LE had a specific story and area they were investigating. What i do not know is if they were successful in finding what they were seeking.

 

[Foxfire]

thank you for understanding that I was quoting yours in a sincere attempt to view things from another perspective than my own and responding as you did.

I agree, the scene being shown by air at the 3 min mark is very interesting and indicates to me that LE had a specific story and area they were investigating. What i do not know is if they were successful in finding what they were seeking.

YW, tlca.. Imo, the helicopter arriving after the sifting operation and departing soon after, implies that something forensically was located.. JMO tlca..

 

[tlcya]

see, this is the stuff of Websleuths at its heart. Being able to hold varied POVs and yet respect that someone holds another and discourse about it.

I so appreciate Websleuths at its best.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I intend to post my full Holly Bobo timeline on Websleuths' Media and Timeline blog within the week. That will answer many questions about search areas and a ton of other historical details. But regarding some of the recent posts:

If the authorities possessed remains, they would have been returned to the family by now, for proper internment. If the authorities possessed unequivocal DNA evidence, they would have successfully used this evidence to coerce the suspect for a full confession or plea agreement by now. If the authorities had any equally powerful combination of damning physical evidence (Holly's purse, videos of the crime, etc.), they would not be resorting to he-said, she-said tactics (interrogation of the suspect's jailed brother, the aggravated assault charge arrest that occurred 3 WEEKS after the actual incident, and of course the 'jailhouse confession' by the suspect (threating his brother) that led to the FBI filing additional charges. And now, we have the prosecution hinting that the Discovery process (sharing of factual evidence with the Defense) will take a long time.

I am not forming an opinion about the suspect. But I am forming an opinion that this is largely a circumstantial case and that the authorities prefer a plea-deal and no trial. To prove me wrong (and I hope that they do), all the prosecutors have to do is lay out their strongest evidence at a press conference. Why are the prosecutors not doing this? They have their suspect in jail. Why is there still such a veil of secrecy over this case?

Thank you for the interesting post.

It is nice that we can state our own opinions even if others disagrees with it. Although I am not trying to prove you wrong. Just stating my own opinion.

And I am one that respectfully disagrees with some of your post.

I do not think they would have returned the remains by now. Especially if only bone fragments or only partial remains were found. They weren't carefully sifting through the soil in the hole for nothing. They do that only when they are making sure that all bones/teeth etc have been found and collected.

I have mentioned before that John Walsh never had Adam's remains returned to him and there have been other families that experienced the same thing. It takes much much longer for a pathologist or an anthropologist to examine remains that are three years old. It is much more complicated than receiving a body who has been found shortly after death. The defense team also has a right to examine the remains once the original autopsy is complete.

Unfortunately we have seen LE try to get confessions out of cold blooded murderers before.. even using the finding of the body as a tactic. However it rarely works, and the defendant is much better off to deny, deny, deny and that is what most of them do. I never thought ZA would confess even if they did find her body or not.

Imo, there will be no plea agreement in this case. Even if the defense attorney comes to the DA wanting one he will not plea. This case is just too high profile and a lot of times it isn't about the money it takes to bring it trial but it is all about giving the proper justice to the defenseless victim no matter the cost it takes. This DA is not going to parlay with Holly's murderer. IMO

A big indicator for me that they have got Adams by his violent horns is the DA immediately said he is considering the death penalty. Missing body cases rarely, rarely..if ever..... have the death penalty attached. Most DAs will go for LWOP when they cant prove how the victim has even been murdered or when they have not located the body or at least partial remains of the victim or if they don't have even brain matter etc. The only time I have seen them consider the death penalty is when they have irrefutable proof the victim has been murdered and it isn't just CE linked together where the jury will have to infer the victim is dead. They prove it when they have the body or part of the body or bodily fluid or brain matter belonging to the victim.

I actually don't think the Prosecutor was hinting at anything. I think he was just being honest. Discovery trickles in on every case. Heck in the Cesar Lauren murder case the state lab results on the weapon wasn't even back until 17 days before trial. So slow discovery is the norm and this one that has a three long year investigation will be even slower than the norm. Although his defense attorney already knew this before the DA even said it.

I have seen countless cases where the sociopath went to trial even though he and his attorneys knew the evidence against him was overwhelming. Again, I firmly believe there will be no plea deal offered by the DA in this case. And Adams who seems to have wormed his way out of so much of his criminal past will take his chances and hope he can find one lone wolf on the jury that will buy his BS story and hang the jury. Or if it does come to be a death penalty case then he will also think he can find one bleeding heart that will spare his worthless life.

JMOO of course.

 

[Suthrnqt]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I intend to post my full Holly Bobo timeline on Websleuths' Media and Timeline blog within the week. That will answer many questions about search areas and a ton of other historical details. But regarding some of the recent posts:

If the authorities possessed remains, they would have been returned to the family by now, for proper internment. If the authorities possessed unequivocal DNA evidence, they would have successfully used this evidence to coerce the suspect for a full confession or plea agreement by now. If the authorities had any equally powerful combination of damning physical evidence (Holly's purse, videos of the crime, etc.), they would not be resorting to he-said, she-said tactics (interrogation of the suspect's jailed brother, the aggravated assault charge arrest that occurred 3 WEEKS after the actual incident, and of course the 'jailhouse confession' by the suspect (threating his brother) that led to the FBI filing additional charges. And now, we have the prosecution hinting that the Discovery process (sharing of factual evidence with the Defense) will take a long time.




I am not forming an opinion about the suspect. But I am forming an opinion that this is largely a circumstantial case and that the authorities prefer a plea-deal and no trial. To prove me wrong (and I hope that they do), all the prosecutors have to do is lay out their strongest evidence at a press conference. Why are the prosecutors not doing this? They have their suspect in jail. Why is there still such a veil of secrecy over this case?

Why would a prosecutor lay out his strongest evidence at a press conference? Just doesn't make much sense that he would do this. Besides, aren't more arrests coming?

As Karen Anne RN has stated, the family has what it needs in regards to proof of death. If the proof is good enough for Holly's family, it is good enough for me. As it should be.

MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Why would a prosecutor lay out his strongest evidence at a press conference? Just doesn't make much sense that he would do this. Besides, aren't more arrests coming?

As Karen Anne RN has stated, the family has what it needs in regards to proof of death. If the proof is good enough for Holly's family, it is good enough for me. As it should be.

MOO

ITA!

Prosecutors have a different rule of ethics to follow. They aren't allowed to publicly discuss what evidence they have on any defendant. If they did so then the defense attorney would accuse them of trying to taint the jury pool.

They are officers of the State where the only obligation they have is to prove their case in a courtroom beyond a reasonable doubt if it goes to trial.

I have never seen any DA layout their case in the public. The only time we may get glimpses of some of what they may have is during hearings before the trial is held and then it is still not nearly all of what they have.

If there had been a bond hearing then we could have learned more because in those kind of hearings the DA will layout reasons, using some of the evidence, why the defendant shouldn't receive bond.

We aren't going to hear any of the evidence until trial time, imo. Tennessee, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't have the Sunshine Law like they do in Florida.

 

[murphy3k]

If there had been a bond hearing then we could have learned more because in those kind of hearings the DA will layout reasons, using some of the evidence, why the defendant shouldn't receive bond.

We aren't going to hear any of the evidence until trial time, imo. Tennessee, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't have the Sunshine Law like they do in Florida.

Respectfully snipped by me. I think you're correct, we probably won't get a lot of information prior to trial. If we do, I think it will come from defense counsel, once there is defense counsel.

If I remember correctly, on the kidnapping and murder charge ZAs bond was set with the indictment. If that is the case, no hearing would be required to set his bond.

We may still get one, though! If his attorney makes a motion before the court to reduce his bond then the Court will likely hold a bond hearing. That cannot happen until a Notice/Entry of Appearance is filed by an attorney on his behalf or the Court appoints one for him. That is typically how it is done in TN. If bond has already been set they do not usually hold a separate bond hearing unless defense counsel moves to lower the bond.

Also, TN does have sunshine laws. However, they are only applicable to members of governing bodies and apply to open meetings. They do not apply to the Executive or Judicial Branch. Therefore, they do not apply to the court system.
http://archive.tennessean.com/article/20070323/NEWS01/70321057/Tennessee-s-Sunshine-Law

All, MOO, but this is mostly from my experience living in TN and working as an intern and paralegal before going to law school.

 

[OldSteve]

Speaking of disagreeing .... for some reason I don't have that good a feeling about this case being a slam-dunk. Great if I'm wrong, and that would be good; but, going pack to day-one - the way things were handled - crime scene was not protected, confusion, no road blocks, etc...

So I have a lack of confidence...
I see ZA as the perfect fall-guy for this kind of crime. True if the shoe fits, but it fits so well I wonder... I wonder about if was pressure to nail someone before the 3-year anniversary...

There has to be solid evidence...

 

[Suthrnqt]

So true Wonless. I posted a link for TN Correction Employees arrested for supplying drugs to inmates a few pages back.. Seems, in TN, you can get anything while in jail for a price.. Even get out of jail free cards..

I think that applies to ALL states, not just TN.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Speaking of disagreeing .... for some reason I don't have that good a feeling about this case being a slam-dunk. Great if I'm wrong, and that would be good; but, going pack to day-one - the way things were handled - crime scene was not protected, confusion, no road blocks, etc...

So I have a lack of confidence...
I see ZA as the perfect fall-guy for this kind of crime. True if the shoe fits, but it fits so well I wonder... I wonder about if was pressure to nail someone before the 3-year anniversary...

There has to be solid evidence...

When that allegation was made by the Bobos, LE denied that the crime scene was compromised. And actually I think the only evidence obtainable at Holly's home was her blood found in the carport. I have no doubt that the forensic techs processed the blood like they should have since Mr. Bobo said they were told it was Holly's blood. Other than that I don't think much was there to be found. So I am not worried about the original scene being compromised.

Personally, I don't think any case is ever a slam dunk, and I really don't think DAs think that way either. They know they must put on solid evidence to prove their case BARD. They know that before an arrest and charges are even filed. They are never going to bring any case just on pressure when they are very well aware that evidence is needed. This will be the biggest case of this DAs career and he isn't going to blow it. He knows he gets one bite at the apple only. The apple is ripe for picking now.

It was before the three year anniversary. So the anniversary date didn't mean anything, imo. They would feel the same pressure on the first or second anniversary date. They charged Adams in February and the anniversary date wasn't even until April 13th.

I don't see Adams as a fall guy. Why would they want to arrest him three years later when they could have done so immediately or on the first anniversary or the second? That is if they were looking for a fall guy to frame which I absolutely don't believe. If they felt pressured it would have been all along since Holly's case was the most high profile case in TN's history.

It is very common for kidnappers/murderers to have a very long rap sheet just like Adams. Often there will be a pattern of criminal violence history pertaining to the suspect which the violence increases over time into them becoming a murderer. Adams isn't a fall guy, imo, he just is another one that fits the pattern of someone who elevated their violent crimes to murder.

I am very comfortable with the arrest and charges against Adams. I think they do have their man and have an overwhelming amount of evidence to prove it.

Arrests happen when they happen even if it is years or decades later in some cases.

I feel very satisfied that the state can and will prove this is the man who took Holly against her will and later on murdered her. I don't have one doubt whatsoever.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Respectfully snipped by me. I think you're correct, we probably won't get a lot of information prior to trial. If we do, I think it will come from defense counsel, once there is defense counsel.

If I remember correctly, on the kidnapping and murder charge ZAs bond was set with the indictment. If that is the case, no hearing would be required to set his bond.

We may still get one, though! If his attorney makes a motion before the court to reduce his bond then the Court will likely hold a bond hearing. That cannot happen until a Notice/Entry of Appearance is filed by an attorney on his behalf or the Court appoints one for him. That is typically how it is done in TN. If bond has already been set they do not usually hold a separate bond hearing unless defense counsel moves to lower the bond.

Also, TN does have sunshine laws. However, they are only applicable to members of governing bodies and apply to open meetings. They do not apply to the Executive or Judicial Branch. Therefore, they do not apply to the court system.
http://archive.tennessean.com/article/20070323/NEWS01/70321057/Tennessee-s-Sunshine-Law

All, MOO, but this is mostly from my experience living in TN and working as an intern and paralegal before going to law school.

Thank you Murphy for the great information.

I didn't think the Sunshine Law applied to the criminal justice system so thank you for confirming my belief.

Yes, I do wish at some point in time... after he has been assigned an attorney of record ...that the attorney would request a bond hearing reduction. Imo, that is the only way we may get a sneak preview of some of the evidence the DA may have. Of course I firmly believe the Judge will deny the reduction request if made.

Other than that happening we aren't going to know much at all before the trial is held.

IMO

 

[OldSteve]

This case below, gives pause to think...

In July 2007, a Union County grand jury indicted Lykken on two counts of premeditated murder, two counts of felony murder and two counts of murder in the disappearance of Miller and Jackson.

I'm sure many were convinced of his guilt...

http://news.yahoo.com/car-accident-killed-sd-girls-missing-since-1971-194013896.html

 

[~n/t~]

Speaking of disagreeing .... for some reason I don't have that good a feeling about this case being a slam-dunk. Great if I'm wrong, and that would be good; but, going pack to day-one - the way things were handled - crime scene was not protected, confusion, no road blocks, etc...

So I have a lack of confidence...
I see ZA as the perfect fall-guy for this kind of crime. True if the shoe fits, but it fits so well I wonder... I wonder about if was pressure to nail someone before the 3-year anniversary...

There has to be solid evidence...

I'm not so concerned about ZA being the one but I am very very worried about the evidence or lack thereof. It appears ZA was their POI but yet it took 3 years to arrest him.

I don't believe Holly's remains were found.

 

[~n/t~]

When that allegation was made by the Bobos, LE denied that the crime scene was compromised. And actually I think the only evidence obtainable at Holly's home was her blood found in the carport. I have no doubt that the forensic techs processed the blood like they should have since Mr. Bobo said they were told it was Holly's blood. Other than that I don't think much was there to be found. So I am not worried about the original scene being compromised.

Personally, I don't think any case is ever a slam dunk, and I really don't think DAs think that way either. They know they must put on solid evidence to prove their case BARD. They know that before an arrest and charges are even filed. They are never going to bring any case just on pressure when they are very well aware that evidence is needed. This will be the biggest case of this DAs career and he isn't going to blow it. He knows he gets one bite at the apple only. The apple is ripe for picking now.

It was before the three year anniversary. So the anniversary date didn't mean anything, imo. They would feel the same pressure on the first or second anniversary date. They charged Adams in February and the anniversary date wasn't even until April 13th.

I don't see Adams as a fall guy. Why would they want to arrest him three years later when they could have done so immediately or on the first anniversary or the second? That is if they were looking for a fall guy to frame which I absolutely don't believe. If they felt pressured it would have been all along since Holly's case was the most high profile case in TN's history.

It is very common for kidnappers/murderers to have a very long rap sheet just like Adams. Often there will be a pattern of criminal violence history pertaining to the suspect which the violence increases over time into them becoming a murderer. Adams isn't a fall guy, imo, he just is another one that fits the pattern of someone who elevated their violent crimes to murder.

I am very comfortable with the arrest and charges against Adams. I think they do have their man and have an overwhelming amount of evidence to prove it.

Arrests happen when they happen even if it is years or decades later in some cases.

I feel very satisfied that the state can and will prove this is the man who took Holly against her will and later on murdered her. I don't have one doubt whatsoever.

IMO

I'm sure you read this

"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.

"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."

http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/2...s-early-handling-investigation?nclick_check=1

 

[Dogface]

Well I hope they have more to nail him on than footprints...but it seems that when an area has a low rate of crime, often times they are not the best at preserving a crime scene, not to speak ill of LE at all.