Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #2 ***ARREST***

[oceanblueeyes]

I respectfully disagree. LE not ruling out the family led to some of the accusations against Clint. I posted a link earlier. They didn't clear anyone including those close to Holly. It was a direct quote from TBI.

And yes I'm angry they didn't and feel horrible for Clint.

Sadly what's done is done. Now the focus will be on the real perp (s)

But even so why would any accuse Clint? Based on what?

Just because they didn't rule anyone in or out, I never saw any indication from LE that they ever suspected Clint of any wrongdoing. The entire population of Decatur County wasn't ruled out.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The issue I have is they claim to have voluminous evidence against the perp that they apparently gathered for 3 years. Yes, I agree perhaps he was their POI all along but looking back, the Bobos have spent countless days looking for a live Holly. Private searches, gliders, truck campaigns, highest reward in any missing person case that I've followed and much more without one iota of communication to the Bobos. They were basically left in the dark for 3 long years.

IIRC even when the searches were being conducted LE said they want to bring Holly home safely. What? If they had all this evidence how can they give the family such unrealistic expectations?

That isn't what the DA said though n/t. During a three year investigation they have amassed 27 volumes of discovery that will have to be turned over at some point to the DT. No where did he say there was 27 volumes on Adams alone.

The 27 volumes is all of the investigation from beginning to end and encapsulates everything they did.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In fact, and I wonder how people feel about this, When Clint first saw Holly going through the woods he thought it was with her Boyfriend - his description was of a man more Holly's height and stockier than Zachary Adams. I worry about that and I worry about ZA's FB post within minutes of her abduction, that the defense could make a case that ZA just wasn't there?

I don't think it will amount to a hill of beans honestly. Clint never saw the face of the man and he said he didnt. He only saw him at a distance. He just 'thought' it was Drew.

Camo clothing makes someone look larger anyway and all he ever saw was the right arm of the man leading Holly away.

And in the end it isn't going to matter anyway. If they have evidence at Adams home and property (and I am positive they do) that ties him to Holly then he will be convicted on both charges.

By law kidnapping begins when the victim is first taken and is a continuous felony kidnapping all during the time she is being held against her will until at such time she is later on murdered. For him to be able to murder Holly he had to be holding her against her will which means he was still in the commission of kidnapping her.

So I am not worried about who Clint 'thought' he saw. Many people in confusing situations can mistake the identity of someone. Clint was doing just like most people would and trying to make rational sense of what he saw. No one gets up thinking they are going to see a kidnapping right in front of their eyes at their own home.

Clint will be just fine.

The defense needs to be a lot more worried about all the evidence that is going to come in pointing straight at their client as the perpetrator than make a big ado out of nothing.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This might be of interest here -
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/mf.pdf

Thanks OS!

This is the nationally recognized vast study I was referring to earlier.

The key factor is if the child has been abducted/kidnapped and later found murdered.

This study involved a total of 775 cases.

Variances:
With more killers identified, researchers found the threat that the killer will be a friend or acquaintance is nearly equal to that of a stranger.

The probability that the killer’s name will come up during the first week of the investigation has decreased.

The use of *advertiser censored* by killers as a trigger to murder has increased.

Key Findings:
In 74 percent of the cases, the child murder victim was female and the average age was 11 years old.

In 44 percent of the cases, the victims and killers were strangers,

In 42 percent of the cases, the victim and killers were friends or acquaintances.

Only about 14 percent of the cases involved parents or intimates killing the child.

Almost two-thirds of the killers have prior arrests for violent crimes, with slightly more than half of those prior crimes committed against children.

The primary motive for the child abduction killer is sexual assault.

In nearly 50 percent of the cases, more than two hours passed between the time someone realized the child was missing and the time police were notified.
In 76 percent of the cases, the child was dead within three hours of the abduction- and in 88.5 percent of the cases the child was dead within 24 hours.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/pressrelease.aspx?&id=4234#.U1MfGDbD-cx

The stats are even lower for family involvement if the abducted and murdered child is an adult.

 

[Steleheart]

Who knows what goes on in small towns. For all we know Zachary Adams could be the secret illegitimate son of someone powerful.

And maybe all this time TBI was waiting for him to commit a crime big enough to warrant investigation by someone other than local LE. The pearl heist may have been that opportunity.

 

[Leader6518]

In fact, and I wonder how people feel about this, When Clint first saw Holly going through the woods he thought it was with her Boyfriend - his description was of a man more Holly's height and stockier than Zachary Adams. I worry about that and I worry about ZA's FB post within minutes of her abduction, that the defense could make a case that ZA just wasn't there?

If remember correctly, Clint said a man in camo between 5'10 and 6 foot and between 160 or 170 and 200 lbs. The Clint bashers just picked up on the numbers that suited their agenda. I'll try to find the article I read stating the perps weight and height ranges.

I have always thought it would be hard to tell weight and height from a distance when you weren't aware that anything was wrong. Holly and the perp were kneeling when he first glanced out to see what the dog was barking at and who the voices belonged to.

So much gossip going on that it is easy to lose what has been reported in MSM or stated by LE. Of course, LE are just as capable of mis-stating facts during press conferences. MOO

 

[Leader6518]

In a survey of 1,200 federal, state and local law enforcement agencies conducted by LexisNexis Risk Solutions, four out of five respondents said they used social media platforms to aid in investigations, 67 percent said they believe social ...media helps solve crimes more quickly, and 87 percent of the time, search warrants using social media to establish probable cause held up in court, the survey finds.

"...many investigators routinely mine social media for potential evidence"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-can-facebook-help-solve-cold-cases/


Very interesting.

 

[~n/t~]

But even so why would any accuse Clint? Based on what?

Just because they didn't rule anyone in or out, I never saw any indication from LE that they ever suspected Clint of any wrongdoing. The entire population of Decatur County wasn't ruled out.

Good morning and Happy Easter to all!

Ocean, I prefer not getting into the discussion. He's innocent and they have the real perp now. If you wish, you can scour through the hundreds of posts here and elsewhere to look for the answers to your questions.

I think it's time to focus on Justice for Holly now.

 

[~n/t~]

That isn't what the DA said though n/t. During a three year investigation they have amassed 27 volumes of discovery that will have to be turned over at some point to the DT. No where did he say there was 27 volumes on Adams alone.

The 27 volumes is all of the investigation from beginning to end and encapsulates everything they did.

IMO

This was said at the defendant's status hearing in front of the Judge. I believe one can deduce that who the DA was referring to was the defendant, Zach Adams.

 

[Steleheart]

If remember correctly, Clint said a man in camo between 5'10 and 6 foot and between 160 or 170 and 200 lbs. The Clint bashers just picked up on the numbers that suited their agenda. I'll try to find the article I read stating the perps weight and height ranges.

I have always thought it would be hard to tell weight and height from a distance when you weren't aware that anything was wrong. Holly and the perp were kneeling when he first glanced out to see what the dog was barking at and who the voices belonged to.

So much gossip going on that it is easy to lose what has been reported in MSM or stated by LE. Of course, LE are just as capable of mis-stating facts during press conferences. MOO

Agreed, thank you, but please don't think I am saying anything about Clint. I was just picking out points that the defense might try to exploit.

 

[Foxfire]

In a survey of 1,200 federal, state and local law enforcement agencies conducted by LexisNexis Risk Solutions, four out of five respondents said they used social media platforms to aid in investigations, 67 percent said they believe social ...media helps solve crimes more quickly, and 87 percent of the time, search warrants using social media to establish probable cause held up in court, the survey finds.

"...many investigators routinely mine social media for potential evidence"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-can-facebook-help-solve-cold-cases/


Very interesting.

'A simple -Thank You- for your post just wasn't enough, Leader6518'..

Although we have all known for years that Awareness is the key in missing/murdered persons investigations. Sadly, many Law Enforcement Agencies such as the TBI refuse to utilize this very valuable (and Free) investigative resource which has been available since 2006. Due to their antiquated investigative strategies of silence, held over by the leadership from the last century. Many cases will go unsolved while others take years to get answers when this resource is squandered.. When last checked, the TBI had no Facebook page..

RE: snipped from article; Cold Case detectives are using social media in different ways; getting the word out to the masses about long-unsolved mysteries in hopes of generating new leads.

"The American public is a very valuable investigative resource to squander in missing/murdered persons investigations"...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This was said at the defendant's status hearing in front of the Judge. I believe one can deduce that who the DA was referring to was the defendant, Zach Adams.

Happy Easter n/t and everyone!:seeya:

Yes, and it was discussing that discovery would take a long time due to the voluminous investigation this one case has amassed in three long years.

Discovery means everything in the 27 volumes collected for three years must be turned over to the defense at some point.

It will not be all about Adams. It will be everything that was done from beginning to end, including Adams but not exclusively on Adams.

I am not trying to change your mind, n/t. But all case files are turned over to the defense in every case and its not just what they uncovered on the defendant by a long shot.

Once the DT gets all of the case files they will read through all of it closely and could even try to re-interview some that were interviewed by the police based on what statements they may have given to LE at the time. Although no one is bound by law to speak with the defense.

In trials the DA is required to turnover all discovery and not just what they have on the defendant. Many times this is where the DT finds others that they may can use for the SODDI defense.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

'A simple -Thank You- for your post just wasn't enough, Leader6518'..

Although we have all known for years that Awareness is the key in missing/murdered persons investigations. Sadly, many Law Enforcement Agencies such as the TBI refuse to utilize this very valuable (and Free) investigative resource which has been available since 2006. Due to their antiquated investigative strategies of silence, held over by the leadership from the last century. Many cases will go unsolved while others take years to get answers when this resource is squandered.. When last checked, the TBI had no Facebook page..

RE: snipped from article; Cold Case detectives are using social media in different ways; getting the word out to the masses about long-unsolved mysteries in hopes of generating new leads.

"The American public is a very valuable investigative resource to squander in missing/murdered persons investigations"...

ITA!

And what I am seeing more and more in trials is the Prosecutors are bringing in social media site evidence. Remarks the defendant themselves have made in their postings and the Judges have ruled it relevant evidence to be entered during the trial. They are even using photos they put up.

It amazes me at times how stupid some criminals can be by putting out detrimental evidence against themselves when they post of social media site.

IMO

 

[Foxfire]

ITA!

And what I am seeing more and more in trials is the Prosecutors are bringing in social media site evidence. Remarks the defendant themselves have made in their postings and the Judges have ruled it relevant evidence to be entered during the trial. They are even using photos they put up.

It amazes me at times how stupid some criminals can be by putting out detrimental evidence against themselves when they post of social media site.

IMO

Oceanblueeyes, we may see an example of this narcissistic behavior/stupidity once ZA goes to trial.. Two other fairly recent homicide cases where perps outed themselves on social media, that come to mind are; Jennifer Ramsaran(NY) and Heather Elvis(SC)..

___________________________

Oceanblueeyes, you are aware that the stats posted in a prior comment were the stats for a child abduction victim and do not apply for for an adult victim. Adult female abduction victim stats are virtually impossible to find on the internet.

If my memory is correct, a female adult victim's life expectancy is much greater than a child's...usually 2 or 3 days, imo...

FBI CARD teams were established 09/2006 due to the critically timed responses and actions deemed necessary by investigators in child abductions..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oceanblueeyes, we may see an example of this narcissistic behavior/stupidity once ZA goes to trial.. Two other fairly recent homicide cases where perps outed themselves on social media, that come to mind are; Jennifer Ramsaran(NY) and Heather Elvis(SC)..

___________________________

Oceanblueeyes, you are aware that the stats posted in a prior comment were the stats for a child abduction victim and do not apply for for an adult victim. Adult female abduction victim stats are virtually impossible to find on the internet.

If my memory is correct, a female adult victim's life expectancy is much greater than a child's...usually 2 or 3 days, imo...

FBI CARD teams were established 09/2006 due to the critically timed responses and actions deemed necessary by investigators in child abductions..

LOL! Yes, I am very well aware of that. I only put those stats up since most of the cases where family members are speculated to be involved by some have to do with minor children more than when an adult child is kidnapped and murdered. It was in reference to posters saying they often suspect family members.

When in truth if the child has been abducted/kidnapped it is rarely done by a family member. Only 14% of the time. I still say that the stats would drop even lower for family involvement when it comes to an adult child who had been kidnapped and later found murdered. JMO though.

I don't really know the average time the kidnapped adult is murdered after being kidnapped. That would be interesting to know what the stats reveal. But then stats are like everything else.........they are based on known facts, and evidence collected on cases that have already been resolved where the evidence is known.

I am not sure the police had anything they could use to go in ...less than three days and arrest ZA after Holly went missing. I think they have had a very difficult time getting possible witnesses to cooperate with them. Some may have even given false alibis for Adams at the time due to either being in on the cover up or was too fearful at the time to tell what they knew. Heck even on the gossip site 'over there' his name didn't crop up until 2012, iirc.

In fact isn't it rare that LE (any LE no matter the state) gets there in time to save the victim when an adult has been kidnapped especially by someone they didn't even associate with?

TIA

BTW, please call me Ocean! After 10 years of being here, I have long been referred to as "Ocean."

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Good morning and Happy Easter to all!

Ocean, I prefer not getting into the discussion. He's innocent and they have the real perp now. If you wish, you can scour through the hundreds of posts here and elsewhere to look for the answers to your questions.

I think it's time to focus on Justice for Holly now.

I truly believe from the minute Holly was kidnapped the entire focus should have always been about seeking justice for Holly, and finding the real suspect or suspects that were actually involved.

I know that has been my hope and full attention from the minute Holly's was taken by the man in camo.

I have my family coming soon for Easter lunch. What am I suppose to be looking for? People that suspected Clint? I am confused, I thought WS doesn't allow family members of victims to be falsely accused based on speculation?

I know on un-moderated sites anyone can falsely accuse innocent people, and often do with glee, but it isn't allowed on WS. That is one of the things I admire most about this site. Even Kimster said that LE never came out, and said Clint was a suspect.

This afternoon I will try to read some when I have more time. Although I am not sure what I am supposed to be looking for.:floorlaugh:

IMO

 

[Foxfire]

LOL! Yes, I am very well aware of that. I only put those stats up since most of the cases where family members are speculated to be involved by some have to do with minor children more than when an adult child is kidnapped and murdered. It was in reference to posters saying they often suspect family members.

When in truth if the child has been abducted/kidnapped it is rarely done by a family member. Only 14% of the time. I still say that the stats would drop even lower for family involvement when it comes to an adult child who had been kidnapped and later found murdered. JMO though.

I don't really know the average time the kidnapped adult is murdered after being kidnapped. That would be interesting to know what the stats reveal. But then stats are like everything else.........they are based on known facts, and evidence collected on cases that have already been resolved where the evidence is known.

I am not sure the police had anything they could use to go in ...less than three days and arrest ZA after Holly went missing. I think they have had a very difficult time getting possible witnesses to cooperate with them. Some may have even given false alibis for Adams at the time due to either being in on the cover up or was too fearful at the time to tell what they knew. Heck even on the gossip site 'over there' his name didn't crop up until 2012, iirc.

In fact isn't it rare that LE (any LE no matter the state) gets there in time to save the victim when an adult has been kidnapped especially by someone they didn't even associate with?

TIA

BTW, please call me Ocean! After 10 years of being here, I have long been referred to as "Ocean."

IMO

Ocean, I figured you knew.. In the Elizabeth Collins/Lyric Cook child abductions(IA). Days were wasted by investigators ruling out family members and draining lakes while ignoring these child abduction statistics, imo. Adam Walsh and Poly Klaas, are two other cases where the stats were ignored..

Ocean, the evidence led straight to ZA's doorstep within days of HB's abduction.. Imo, the TBI couldn't see the forest for the trees...

Happy Easter...

 

[jggordo]

IIRC the figure of 27 volumes collected was revealed in that press release in May of 2013 in regard to the WOW investigation. If that is so, then it would have to be considerably more at this stage of the investigation. Also I would think that of all of it there has to be volumes of worthless leads, including "leads" that had to be investigated because of that WOW "documentary" in light that many call it a "mockumentary". Those parts won't have to be turned over as "discovery" will it? Don't know.

Does anyone know the relationship between ZA and the Wes Conway killing? According to Tn.Gov.Foil ZA had a sentence end of 11-8-2013 which I take it means he got out of Tn custody. And didn't the Conway killing death the next day on 11-9-2013 ? CB was listed as a "friend" on Conway's FB page. Is there a connection? Just wondering.

Conway Link
http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/De...-to-Death-in-Familys-Driveway--231385441.html
JMO's

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkrn/docs/HollyBobo.pdf
Bumping Foxfire's Link Forward

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean, I figured you knew.. In the Elizabeth Collins/Lyric Cook child abductions(IA). Days were wasted by investigators ruling out family members and draining lakes while ignoring these child abduction statistics, imo. Adam Walsh and Poly Klaas, are two other cases where the stats were ignored..

Ocean, the evidence led straight to ZA's doorstep within days of HB's abduction.. Imo, the TBI couldn't see the forest for the trees...

Happy Easter...

So many days have been wasted by many other investigators as well in many other cases when LE should know by now that rarely are family members involved if the victim has been abducted/kidnapped. FGS that is why these in depth studies are done so that LE can be educated on who to look for when they have the same situations to deal with, yet over and over again it seems LE does like they have always done......focus solely on the parent or parents as the killer slips away.

I agree way too much time was wasted in Elizabeth and Lyric's case and even now elsewhere on other sites because the case remains unsolved the parents are accused of their murders day and night. Of course, like usual, there isn't any evidence to support them.

The worst thing in the world that can happen for family members is for the case of their missing or murdered love one to remain unsolved. I have seen the false accusations go on for years sometime until LE finally found and arrested the suspect and if a suspect is never charged then it continues forever.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I came across this article just now and since it pertains to Tennessee, I thought I would link it here.

Tennessee bill to bring back electric chair headed to Governor

NASHVILLE, Tenn., April 17 (Reuters) - Tennessee's electric chair, last used in 2007, would become a state option for executions under a bill approved on Thursday by lawmakers looking for alternatives if drugs for lethal injections become unavailable.

Tennessee senators voted on Thursday to give the measure final approval and send it to Republican Governor Bill Haslam, who has endorsed the death penalty in general terms.

Haslam will review the legislation when it arrives at his desk, a spokeswoman said on Wednesday.

The bill follows other similar proposals from various U.S. states that are responding to increased difficulty in obtaining drugs for lethal injections because many pharmaceutical firms, mainly in Europe, object to their use in executions.

Lawmakers in Missouri and Wyoming proposed adding firing squads as an execution method earlier this year.


http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/tennessee-bill-to-bring-back-electric-chair-headed-to-governor