Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #5 ***ARRESTS***

[Dr. Know?]

Steve, just a person concerned here.

I tried to make sense of everything being thrown out here and elsewhere, and I think all can change in a heartbeat. To me, the earliest reports and rumors have been pretty much right on. To try to follow today, here or elsewhere, is impossible for me with limited time. jmo I just happened to read some back then.

The court cases don't bother me so much with MP. Maybe tomorrow they will. State charges don't always trump federal charges? The charges against MP could mean something more sinister, iykwim. I'd expect at least that info possibly coming out soon. Who know's what it is? I surely couldn't say other than his underage molestation charge etc...

It's probably just me who is willing to wait for more information. My opionion can go many directions still from all of my notes. All of them already accused are still on my list, but there's a possibility there are others. Bring them to trial. Can't wait to well... jmo again.

Have a great day all!

Prayers to the family. my heart hangs heavy for them.

 

[Fence Sitter]

Noooooooooooo. That's completely on the wrong track.

Relatively speaking, LE doesn't give a rat's fat behind about either of the brothers. So they certainly aren't offering a deal to one to squeal on the other.

What they want is testimony that will help hang JA and ZA. A deal with MP won't be for testimony about whether he believes JP once had a video or not, but rather about what MP might have seen IN PERSON when the video was taken, or perhaps a deal for the video itself, or both.

Sorry you misunderstood me. What you just said is what i was getting at i just probably didnt make it clear.
What i was getting at is would MP take a deal and incriminate not just ZA and JA but his brother aswell in the process. The only thing that (we know of) ties MP to the crime is the alleged video on JPs phone. Would MP have to show proof there was a video that he took (or would confession be enough), essentially rolling on his brother. JP would just be collateral damage in that scenario.
Do i make more sense now? Sometimes ive got so much in my head its hard to relay

 

[Dr. Know?]

My op, MP would bring his brother down if he had to. jmo again. Either or P might.

 

[SteveS]

DK, ikwym and obviously we're all just guessing at what's going on with all the various pieces at this point, because we know so little.

As far as the proposed explanation for MP's hearing getting postponed yet again, I have a hard time thinking this has anything to do with federal vs state court priority. That certainly wasn't an explanation offered by anyone in the process, and as I ponder it, that sounds way off base to me, since this guy is sitting in prison every day picking his nose and doing nothing, and both LE and courts know how to do a schedule.

But as I ponder it further, I'd offer that we may simply be making much ado about nothing on this. Instead of some sort of "here we go again" type of thing, isn't it more likely that we're only seeing routine activity play out?

I would propose that what really happened was
1 the media person who answered your question of the date for MP's next hearing simply made a mistake, looking at his federal court date and mistaking it for the district court hearing,
2 that the hearing date in district court has actually been on the docket for Oct for quite some time, maybe for more than a month, and
3 since the judge's outburst in August, all that has happened is that the "be here in September" was privately changed to Oct at some point, done routinely by conference call or email because of a conflict that was discovered in the schedule of one of the vital parties (judge, DA, or defendant atty).

 

[Dr. Know?]

Yes, I agree on your points SteveS. As far as MP or any of the those arrested in connection to Holly's disappearance and death, it's in depth. MP, he could have been involved in a major crime ring or just an accident waiting to happen molestor of the young. I don't really care for him in any shape form or whatever. Can I say more Bessie? j/k

I truely dislike those already charged. Not a one of them are a credible human being. So try it now defense to humanize them...it's always the same ole...How's about bringing someone to trial and convicting them? Where did that part get dropped? jmo

 

[SteveS]

Yes, I agree on your points SteveS. As far as MP or any of the those arrested in connection to Holly's disappearance and death, it's in depth. MP, he could have been involved in a major crime ring or just an accident waiting to happen molestor of the young. I don't really care for him in any shape form or whatever. Can I say more Bessie? j/k

I truely dislike those already charged. Not a one of them are a credible human being. So try it now defense to humanize them...it's always the same ole...How's about bringing someone to trial and convicting them? Where did that part get dropped? jmo

While I agree that these various defendants aren't society's finest, I also push back against assuming they need to be accused, convicted, and locked up even if they really aren't involved here. (Not saying you're doing that, but I get a sense of that being what's desired in this forum sometimes, which bothers me.)

If that happens (and it could, if LE is playing games to force questionable testimony, as sometimes happens), Holly doesn't get justice. Her abductor(s) and killers(s) go uncaught, while we try to punish someone else. "The usual suspects" or "the ones who do other crimes" isn't really the way to find and punish the guilty that did THIS.

I want the ones who did wrong to HOLLY to get the brunt of LE's fury, not others.

I don't want ZA hung for this because he shot his mom 10 years ago and is a long-time druggie with a record to match - I want him hung if (and only if) he did this stuff. Same with JA. I won't assume either is a perp, a mastermind, or a partner for THIS until we have some evidence that says so. But so far, all the evidence we've seen is that they've persuaded a mentally-challenged guy to lay blame to ZA and JA.

I hope and trust they have more, way more, and I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[pearl]

Call me naïve, but I have a great respect for and confidence in law enforcement. Sure, there are bad cops just like there are bad teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc. Holly's case is a high profile case. It has been my experience in following cases through to the end that LE tends to get it right. I truly don't believe that there is flimsy evidence in this case. I don't think any defendant is being railroaded for a conviction. Dylan's testimony will be accepted into court even if he is mentally challenged. That is another thing that we do not know for sure. He, by IDEA guidelines, is not mentally challenged unless his IQ is below 70. If he received special education services while in public school, his educational records (if the school system hasn't already destroyed them) will not be open for inspection by anyone. Educational confidentiality laws will ensue if he was special ed. If the defense claims he is mentally challenged, they will have to back it up with scores. Then they will have to prove that he is not truthful because he is mentally challenged. This will be a psychologist doing a full scale evaluation of Dylan. I don't think Dylan will allow himself to be subjected to testing. He doesn't have to because he will not be a murder defendant. Also, as I've posted before, he will not hold up to pressure by the defense if he is a part of any conspiracy to convict anyone.
As to ZA and JA's past experience with LE, it shows that they have been treated lightly. My opinion of these two, gained from reading about them and listening to some relatives speak of at least one of them, they are not good people. I don't apologize for my dislike of these two people. We don't know a single bit of evidence that LE has used to arrest and charge ZA and JA. We don't know of any evidence that Dylan has been manipulated. Until we have hard facts as reported by MSM, all ideas, opinions, theories, suppositions, likes, dislikes, thoughts, etc are open for consideration as far as I am concerned.

 

[ThoughtFox]

When they didn't have a body, the TBI and local cops were obviously trying to set up deals so they could rat on eachother.

Now that they have a body, along with other evidence (known or unknown) there aren't going to be any deals.

Some of the evidence is circumstantial, but taken together it's powerful, in my opinion.

Dylan must know something or his brother wouldn't have issued that warning to him to shut up or I'll "put you in a hole like her." That's almost an admission of guilt.

There are always unexpected surprises in cases like this. I think the TBI does have something. :cow:

 

[Tugela]

She did scream though. Clint didn't hear it, but the neighbor did. I'm guessing he physically assaulted her or threatened her with a weapon to get her from continuing to do that.

The neighbors are far away. How could they hear it, but not him, since he would have been awake at that point as he observed them outside and subsequently leaving?

And if she knew he was there, why would she keep quite when her best bet at that point in time would have been to raise a ruckus in the expectation that help would arrive immediately?

The accounts we have of that morning do not make sense.

 

[Tugela]

When they didn't have a body, the TBI and local cops were obviously trying to set up deals so they could rat on eachother.

Now that they have a body, along with other evidence (known or unknown) there aren't going to be any deals.

Some of the evidence is circumstantial, but taken together it's powerful, in my opinion.

Dylan must know something or his brother wouldn't have issued that warning to him to shut up or I'll "put you in a hole like her." That's almost an admission of guilt.

There are always unexpected surprises in cases like this. I think the TBI does have something. :cow:

If they only have a body they still need to make deals, because otherwise they would have no evidence. Her being dead and possibly murdered in itself does not implicate anyone in particular. For that you need other evidence, and the only evidence that has been reported are these allegations. It does not appear that they have corroboration for the allegations either.

That is why we seeing all these peripheral charges, IMO LE are desperate to find some sort of corroboration before their case goes down the toilet. I think the arrests were made in anticipation of finding corroboration later, but that hasn't happened. So now they have a problem.

 

[Tugela]

it's easy to focus on the dog-and-pony show being performed, and lose sight of what they are really trying to do.

What LE really wants is to hang JA and ZA for crimes against Holly. They have two REAL defendants here, when it comes to their bottom line.

The others, there's not a single one that they have accused of doing a single thing to HB. Those accusations are of having knowledge, hard evidence, or info - things that would help prove the case against JA and/or ZA - and not giving it to LE. But the point regarding all of the others is to make it easier to hang a death sentence on JA and ZA, and the others are not a biggie (even if LE opts to try to make those others into biggies in their PR-focused statements on this case.)

This is being painted into some sort of huge set of participants, and we've seen nothing that says that. Instead, it's more likely an act by one or two, and then a bunch of after-the-fact bystanders (at the most). It may have all been done by one, who had help from the other at this point or that, and nothing more.

Proving what crimes were done by that one (or perhaps two) against Holly is all that really matters.

There is another scenario that occurred to my cynical mind - perhaps LE knows they can't convict on the abduction charge because the evidence is too weak, but they might be able to convict on these lesser charges where a jury/court would hold a lower bar for proof on the allegations. So, in that case they would look to convict anyone who might have anything at all to do with the case on some charge so they can go to the public and say "Hey! We couldn't get them on the main charge, but we got them anyway! Objective achieved!". That could explain all these minor peripheral charges - they are "plan B" so to speak

 

[Foxfire]

If they only have a body they still need to make deals, because otherwise they would have no evidence. Her being dead and possibly murdered in itself does not implicate anyone in particular. For that you need other evidence, and the only evidence that has been reported are these allegations. It does not appear that they have corroboration for the allegations either.

That is why we seeing all these peripheral charges, IMO LE are desperate to find some sort of corroboration before their case goes down the toilet. I think the arrests were made in anticipation of finding corroboration later, but that hasn't happened. So now they have a problem.

Tugela, I am confident that investigators/prosecution have a treasure trove of evidence against those A train members charged, as well as those likely to be charged in the future.. Not sure why there are so many conspiracy theories and skepticism at this point in the investigation/prosecution.. Just dotting the Is' and crossing the Ts, imo....

 

[Tugela]

Call me naïve, but I have a great respect for and confidence in law enforcement. Sure, there are bad cops just like there are bad teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc. Holly's case is a high profile case. It has been my experience in following cases through to the end that LE tends to get it right. I truly don't believe that there is flimsy evidence in this case. I don't think any defendant is being railroaded for a conviction. Dylan's testimony will be accepted into court even if he is mentally challenged. That is another thing that we do not know for sure. He, by IDEA guidelines, is not mentally challenged unless his IQ is below 70. If he received special education services while in public school, his educational records (if the school system hasn't already destroyed them) will not be open for inspection by anyone. Educational confidentiality laws will ensue if he was special ed. If the defense claims he is mentally challenged, they will have to back it up with scores. Then they will have to prove that he is not truthful because he is mentally challenged. This will be a psychologist doing a full scale evaluation of Dylan. I don't think Dylan will allow himself to be subjected to testing. He doesn't have to because he will not be a murder defendant. Also, as I've posted before, he will not hold up to pressure by the defense if he is a part of any conspiracy to convict anyone.
As to ZA and JA's past experience with LE, it shows that they have been treated lightly. My opinion of these two, gained from reading about them and listening to some relatives speak of at least one of them, they are not good people. I don't apologize for my dislike of these two people. We don't know a single bit of evidence that LE has used to arrest and charge ZA and JA. We don't know of any evidence that Dylan has been manipulated. Until we have hard facts as reported by MSM, all ideas, opinions, theories, suppositions, likes, dislikes, thoughts, etc are open for consideration as far as I am concerned.

Presumably the interviews with him would have been recorded, so it would be quite obvious if he was "persuaded" or not. If LE engaged in questionable tactics to get him to say what they wanted to hear, then it will not go well for them in court.

 

[Tugela]

Tugela, I am confident that investigators/prosecution have a treasure trove of evidence against those A train members charged, as well as those likely to be charged in the future.. Not sure why there are so many conspiracy theories and skepticism at this point in the investigation/prosecution.. Just dotting the Is' and crossing the Ts, imo....

I am confident that they don't. All this stuff, such as reneging (or threatening to), allegations of witness tampering, allegations of concealing unknown evidence and so on that LE are doing is counterproductive if they have a strong case. It can only hurt them, so if they are doing all of that then there is a good reason and I doubt that reason is the strength of their evidence. IMO the reason is more likely the weakness of their case.

If they had a strong case against the primary accused, they wouldn't have to do anything else, just go to court.

 

[Foxfire]

I am confident that they don't. All this stuff, such as reneging (or threatening to), allegations of witness tampering, allegations of concealing unknown evidence and so on that LE are doing is counterproductive if they have a strong case. It can only hurt them, so if they are doing all of that then there is a good reason and I doubt that reason is the strength of their evidence. IMO the reason is more likely the weakness of their case.

If they had a strong case against the primary accused, they wouldn't have to do anything else, just go to court.

Tugela, investigations always continue throughout the trial process. Once arrests are made, especially if there is no bond, citizens will no longer fear retribution by the suspects/defendants, and will come forth with new tips to follow up on.. Prosecutions are marathons, as opposed to sprints...especially when there are multiple offenders involved..

 

[steelman]

I can offer 3 explanations, each of which makes sense - take your pick:
1 LE keeps resetting in the hopes that "by the nexxxxxxxxxxttttttttt time" they will have found the perhaps-mythical video and be able to justify charges.
2 LE is working to, or has been able to, make a plea deal with MP in exchange for testimony against ZA/JA, but they don't want to let the cat out of the bag yet.
3 LE is a bunch of bumbling idiots who can't get their act together.

I think I will take what is behind door number 3, Monty !!

 

[Little Jedi]

:seeya: Hi Dr. Know,

Just jumping off your post here:

I was really surprised that nothing leaked out about those other property searches and whose property was searched when ZA's property was initially searched.

LOL . . . I even read over there to see if anyone was leaking info, but did not see anything -- unless I missed it or it was "removed."

Anyone got any idea where this could be ?

" The TBI executed search warrants at various locations in the area early Friday morning. No other details, including locations, were released; however, sources said the TBI is searching a property off exit 126 on I-40 toward Parsons. " :dunno:

http://web.archive.org/web/20140301...ifting-through-dirt-behind-house-in-bobo-case

 

[Bali]

Personally, I believe it. He was inside the house, the neighbor was outside. You wouldn't necessarily hear a scream from outside if you have all the doors and windows closed. There was another case a few years back where people farther away heard the scream and gunshots and people just inside didn't. I can confirm that there was a shooting outside my dorm in college, everyone else heard it, I didn't. There could be any number of reasons he didn't hear the scream: he's a heavy sleeper, he sleeps with a fan, the house is just well insulated. I don't think it's unreasonable.

 

[Bali]

I am confident that they don't. All this stuff, such as reneging (or threatening to), allegations of witness tampering, allegations of concealing unknown evidence and so on that LE are doing is counterproductive if they have a strong case. It can only hurt them, so if they are doing all of that then there is a good reason and I doubt that reason is the strength of their evidence. IMO the reason is more likely the weakness of their case.

If they had a strong case against the primary accused, they wouldn't have to do anything else, just go to court.

Yup. I have just about zero confidence that they have much evidence at all aside from what they have released. It would be one thing if they weren't releasing any evidence at all. But they're releasing stuff that sounds bad, but really has no solid basis. Why release that evidence if they're playing it close to the vest?

Some woman claims she saw a video...that they can't find. And then they never release that they actually found the video and MP's hearings keep getting postponed. ZA threatens his brother...in a way that doesn't match where the body was actually found. They've searched his property on multiple occasions, the most recent time they ripped up the floors and walls and took them out. Why would they need to do that if they had found any evidence the first couple times they searched? Why would they charge DA with tampering with evidence? He's their star witness. I'm going to go ahead and say that he's recanted and refused to testify. They're getting desperate. These guys may still be guilty, but I don't think they have any solid evidence and they're trying to cover that fact and salvage a case out of this.

 

[OldSteve]

I am confident that they don't. All this stuff, such as reneging (or threatening to), allegations of witness tampering, allegations of concealing unknown evidence and so on that LE are doing is counterproductive if they have a strong case. It can only hurt them, so if they are doing all of that then there is a good reason and I doubt that reason is the strength of their evidence. IMO the reason is more likely the weakness of their case.

If they had a strong case against the primary accused, they wouldn't have to do anything else, just go to court.

Yup. I have just about zero confidence that they have much evidence at all aside from what they have released. It would be one thing if they weren't releasing any evidence at all. But they're releasing stuff that sounds bad, but really has no solid basis. Why release that evidence if they're playing it close to the vest?

Some woman claims she saw a video...that they can't find. And then they never release that they actually found the video and MP's hearings keep getting postponed. ZA threatens his brother...in a way that doesn't match where the body was actually found. They've searched his property on multiple occasions, the most recent time they ripped up the floors and walls and took them out. Why would they need to do that if they had found any evidence the first couple times they searched? Why would they charge DA with tampering with evidence? He's their star witness. I'm going to go ahead and say that he's recanted and refused to testify. They're getting desperate. These guys may still be guilty, but I don't think they have any solid evidence and they're trying to cover that fact and salvage a case out of this.

Both above express my concerns about the way things have happened and been handled - will there be a turn-around when the trial(s) begin or will it be more of the same?