Holly Bobo, missing from TN 2014 discussion #5 ***ARRESTS***

[reedus23]

They could have dropped the ball. They could have quietly worked out the issues and he will still testify pursuant to the agreement. Could be any number of things.

Personally, while I would like to hear more information, I have no interest in the defense attorney's trying the case through the media. Little doubt they will. I wholly expect them to file Motions to Dismiss the indictments, and that's without having the first clue of what information is being produced. Just a matter of posturing.

 

[goldenbear]

I hope they find Holly soon.

 

[Tugela]

I must be missing something. Maybe it is because I haven't been here much at all in the last month.

What I don't understand is why we are to think the TBI or the DA has to be transparent in this particular case.

Aren't cases supposed to be tried within the well of the court and hearings discussed before Judges? Sometimes those hearings are also sealed.

I have seen the TBI hammered over this case for not being transparent, but honestly I don't remember one state agency anywhere in our country coming out spilling all the beans to the public about what all their evidence entails and what they have that supports an arrest and charge before it even goes to trial.

I guess I am just a little confused why this case is somehow expected to be different than other cases where state agencies have jurisdiction.

The GBI in my home state of Georgia never tells one thing about any evidence they have amassed against someone they arrest and charge. Talk about being tight lipped.......they are and that is so typical of any state agency, and even when the FBI is involved.

That is why we have presiding Judges over cases. They are the ones that should know and do know what the evidence is against a defendant.

IMO

The judges will only know what is presented to them, and if that is in open court it will be the same as what we know.

At this point we don't know if there is any actual evidence outside of jailhouse tips.

 

[Tugela]

Dogs are living things, with individual brains, not pre-programmed robots. Without knowing the individual dog, it's pointless to assume what it would or wouldn't do in any given situation.

JMO

They don't think like we do or understand verbal language, they react entirely to body language and attitude. If she feeling threatened the dog would know about it even before she was aware it. Dogs are social animals that act as if the humans they live with are with are part of their pack, with them being on the low end of the totem pole in ranking (if your dog decides that you, or a member of your family, is lower status than it, you have a big problem). If someone attacked her there is a very high chance the dog would have attacked the attacker, or at least kicked up a big ruckus, that is just how they behave. If it didn't do that it would have fled and been found cowering away somewhere. It would not just have sat around as if nothing happened. The only way that scenario would play out would be if Holly went willingly, or if the dog was already familiar with whoever took her. If the dog did not react at all then I would say that it is almost certain that the person she went with was very well known to both her and the dog.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point, Tug. I don't believe you can predict what an individual dog would do unless you know the dog. And even then, I think it's guesswork.

JMO

 

[OldSteve]

Chris Conte says that Zach Adams spent 30 seconds in Court this morning and the case was waived to the Grand Jury. No future date set at this time.

https://www.facebook.com/NC5ChrisConte?fref=nf

Good to see you Ocean. Hope all is well

I do believe this particular case is a little different in that LE and the Judicial system have earned their reputation of being ineffective in a three year investigation of a three year old crime that by all appearances were committed by locals that it was common knowledge. Almost all parties involved in this case are career criminals that have had their own revolving door on the penal system.

Zack's original arrest for the Assault case the witness withdrew her statement and dropped the charges. There is the Shayne Austin immunity fiasco where LE has yet to act on their threat to arrest him. I have yet to see a link to it but it was reported earlier in the thread that an agent withdrew an affidavit on the coercion charge. The Pearcy half brothers cases have been continued by District Attorneys giving the impression they don't have the goods to proceed. And today on the Assault charges for assaulting jail staff gets waived to a GJ after 30 seconds.

In a three year old case where LE is attempting to garner support of the community to feel free to come forward with what they know or have known for years, I don't feel they are achieving it. Having an unnamed "witness" out in the community and the Judge simply saying "no contact" for an extended period of time seems risky to say the least. The locals know exactly who the "witness" is.

For an arrest that happened March 5, 2014 the end of August for a "discovery" deadline is the longest time frame I have ever seen in any case. That is almost six months. So I do believe this particular case is different in many ways.

JMO's

Well stated! Seems to be the nature of this case from day one when lots of LE arrived at the Bobo residence and then appears conflict as to who was in charge and what to; while Holly's mom wondered why roadblocks weren't being set up....

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Zachary Adams' assault case goes to grand jury

Suspect in Holly Bobo case waives right to hearing on charge of assaulting corrections officer


Adams, who has been charged with felony first-degree murder and aggravated kidnapping in the Holly Bobo case, is separately charged with assault against a corrections officer in the Chester County Jail.

Adams waived his right to a preliminary hearing Tuesday in the assault case. The case will next go to a grand jury, which is scheduled to meet on Oct. 28.


http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/2...s-assault-case-goes-grand-jury?nclick_check=1

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Snippets from the Jackson Sun:

Pastor Don Franks, who has been a spokesman for the Bobo family and was at Tuesday’s hearing, did not want to comment on the new charge against Adams. Dana and Karen Bobo were also at the hearing.

“We’re very hopeful for the sake of decency someone will talk,” Franks said. “This family desperately needs to find the body of Holly Bobo. This family desperately needs closure.”

Franks said that while the Bobo family has been at every hearing for Adams, Autry, and Mark Pearcy and Jeffrey Pearcy — brothers charged with accessory after the fact and tampering with evidence in the case — each day is just as hard as the last with Holly still missing.


http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/2...s-assault-case-goes-grand-jury?nclick_check=1



BBM:

lease:lease: that Hollly will be found !

lease:lease: for Holly's Family !

 

[dog.gone.cute]

From WSMV:


A few weeks ago, an officer in the Chester County jail said Adams threatened suicide, and when they tried to move him to a safer cell, they say he hit a guard.

His aunt, Dinah Adams, said Zach Adams never threatened suicide and his family members say the guards pepper sprayed him before he started swinging.


http://www.wsmv.com/story/26019600/suspect-in-bobo-disappearance-in-court-tuesday

 

[dog.gone.cute]

From WSMV:


Holly Bobo's parents showed up to watch the short hearing. Their family pastor took the time to speak to the crowd of cameras right afterward.

"It's a very difficult day, and it's going to continue to be difficult times ahead," said Don Franks.

"There's a deadline set, and if somebody wants to cut a plea deal they need to begin talking because that deadline is approaching," Franks said.

The judge has said that after Jan. 14 he won't accept any plea bargains.


http://www.wsmv.com/story/26019600/suspect-in-bobo-disappearance-in-court-tuesday

 

[SteveS]

I don't quite understand why some posters automatically believes the DA has nothing. Based on what? Because the DA doesn't tell the public what he has?

Because the DA has given plenty of room to wonder if she has a clue what she's doing.

MSM has reported that they have a source telling them the charges against the Pearcy bros are going to be dismissed in a couple weeks and that it was all a "mistake." That would indicate that they were arrested and charged, based on nothing more than uncorroborated allegations.

The process taken with SA also looked very much like they were more interested in applying pressure rather than following proper procedure.

It's that sort of stuff that leaves an impression that LE is simply throwing stuff against the wall and hoping something sticks.

It is always possible that the MSM report was crappy journalism, or that the source was clueless. But that's what we seem to know at the moment, and it's not the sort of stuff that inspires confidence in this LE operating within the confines of fairness or justice.

 

[goldenbear]

Because the DA has given plenty of room to wonder if she has a clue what she's doing.

MSM has reported that they have a source telling them the charges against the Pearcy bros are going to be dismissed in a couple weeks and that it was all a "mistake." That would indicate that they were arrested and charged, based on nothing more than uncorroborated allegations.

The process taken with SA also looked very much like they were more interested in applying pressure rather than following proper procedure.

It's that sort of stuff that leaves an impression that LE is simply throwing stuff against the wall and hoping something sticks.

It is always possible that the MSM report was crappy journalism, or that the source was clueless. But that's what we seem to know at the moment, and it's not the sort of stuff that inspires confidence in this LE operating within the confines of fairness or justice.

This case is so complex it is very hard to follow all the changes. They will need a team ofpeople each time it is in court.

 

[spooky24]

This case is so complex it is very hard to follow all the changes. They will need a team ofpeople each time it is in court.

Here I would disagree. It's very simple in the fact that until the state can prove a crime was committed they must stall for time because they have no case without proof that capitol murder occurred.

Apparently, another attempt was made to force a confession out of Adams by a 'jailhouse rumor' that he threatened suicide. That gave them the right to put him in the soft cell that is a 10x10 padded cell in which all human dignity is stripped from a person.

I have seen one similar to that but not the particular cell he was forced into. Paper pajama bottoms and cardboard slippers and no privacy whatsoever even for the toilet area. The person is made to stand most of the day so observing officers can get a 360 degree 'safety view' to make sure he can't hurt himself.

Without a death certificate these guys are going to walk because even with a very strong circumstantial case the capitol murder charge would either be dropped and a lesser charge be made by another indictment. It's still hard to understand just how the state was so confident these guys would confess-or their ability to 'persuade' them to confess that they were charged with a death penalty crime.

They are running out of time. I am not a lawyer but perhaps there is a way to lower the charge to second degree murder without a separate indictment. The guidelines for capitol murder (a death penalty charge) are spelled out in the code and I really don't see any way to wiggle out of it without recalling the Grand Jury.

From what I understand-from persons familiar with the legal status of capital murder-this is the first and only time this has ever happened so it difficult to forecast just where this goes next.

Every lawyer you ask has the same response similar to 'since no one has ever been stupid enough to paint themselves into a corner like they have done with the death penalty charge it's impossible to offer an opinion'.

The aggravated kidnapping charge could possibly stand if they had a witness that saw the victim with the defendant however if they had that this would have gone to trial a year ago.

So, that is the question. Can the death penalty charge be lowered(without recalling the grand jury) to 2nd degree murder in which a conviction could be attained without a death certificate?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Here I would disagree. It's very simple in the fact that until the state can prove a crime was committed they must stall for time because they have no case without proof that capitol murder occurred.

Apparently, another attempt was made to force a confession out of Adams by a 'jailhouse rumor' that he threatened suicide. That gave them the right to put him in the soft cell that is a 10x10 padded cell in which all human dignity is stripped from a person.

I have seen one similar to that but not the particular cell he was forced into. Paper pajama bottoms and cardboard slippers and no privacy whatsoever even for the toilet area. The person is made to stand most of the day so observing officers can get a 360 degree 'safety view' to make sure he can't hurt himself.

Without a death certificate these guys are going to walk because even with a very strong circumstantial case the capitol murder charge would either be dropped and a lesser charge be made by another indictment. It's still hard to understand just how the state was so confident these guys would confess-or their ability to 'persuade' them to confess that they were charged with a death penalty crime.

They are running out of time. I am not a lawyer but perhaps there is a way to lower the charge to second degree murder without a separate indictment. The guidelines for capitol murder (a death penalty charge) are spelled out in the code and I really don't see any way to wiggle out of it without recalling the Grand Jury.

From what I understand-from persons familiar with the legal status of capital murder-this is the first and only time this has ever happened so it difficult to forecast just where this goes next.

Every lawyer you ask has the same response similar to 'since no one has ever been stupid enough to paint themselves into a corner like they have done with the death penalty charge it's impossible to offer an opinion'.

The aggravated kidnapping charge could possibly stand if they had a witness that saw the victim with the defendant however if they had that this would have gone to trial a year ago.

So, that is the question. Can the death penalty charge be lowered(without recalling the grand jury) to 2nd degree murder in which a conviction could be attained without a death certificate?

I thought it hadn't been determined positively that the DA IS going to ask for the death penalty. The last I read he said he was considering the death penalty even though Holly's remains haven't been located.

In the Sierra Lamar's murder case the DA IS asking for the death penalty in that case even though Sierra's body has never been found. Torres is charged with aggravated kidnapping and murder just like these two.

No case is automatically a death penalty case. It is the sole decision of each DA whether the case will be a death penalty case as long as the necessary prongs for the death penalty have been met. Some opt for the DP and others do not even though the cases may be death qualified.

Even if the jury declines to give them death it never means they are going to walk free. Countless defendants all across the nation are in prison who were given LWOP even though the victim's remains were never located. In fact I cant remember one case in the last few years where a 'missing body' case ended in a NG. Missing body cases have been tried and won for many years now so this one is no different in that aspect. It will only become unique in TN if the DA does ask for the death penalty. In all missing body cases there is never a death certificate issued nor was it needed to find the defendant guilty of the crimes charged.

The charges will not be lowered on Autry nor Adams nor should they be. The DA knows he has the burden of proof and to charge them with this he has to believe wholeheartedly he has the evidence to prove his case BARD. He has no reason to lower their charges and that is why they haven't been lowered and wont be. I don't think they need Adams' confession to win this case nor do I think they are trying to beat one out of him.

Imo, these two will never see freedom again.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thank you for taking the time to do a good job explaining what it was like in your GJ experience. It reminds me of the old classic movie I probably have mentioned before called "12 Angry Men". It was a fascinating portrayel of how 12 different and unqiue individuals behaved on their jury during a murder trial. Truly fascinating and i recommend this movie to any crime buff such as most of us.

I have to suspect that some people that have not ever had to serve on a GJ or Jury may have a somewhat incorrect perception of how things go. Not just that the verdict can sometimes be not what we expect but also forgetting that the jury members are just ordinary random folks that come to the table with all their ordinary issues in their lives. Whether that be strong opinions or maybe even some personal issues or even mental health issues. The random lot is a random sample, and so even though everyone is there to attempt to do their very best, there can be a whole host of surprises with how the group will interract with each other. Whether it be shouting matches, crying, screaming, laughing, etc. etc. With the point being that sometimes, the jury deliberations is not as professional as one would like to think it should go.
And then when you factor in all the people's past life experiences that shape how we view things in life, its actually a small miracle there can ever be a concensus.

For the GJ in this case that first decided to proceed with ZA, I do wonder what the evidence was that convinced the GJ. Since it is sealed and we may never know, it seems that is somewhat unfair that it never get publicized at some point. There is no telling who said what or who told what or who showed what to the GJ. If that info never gets released after the trial, that seems unfair to me.

I suppose the only checks + balances in that process is the state + DA realizes they will be spending lots of money going forward with a case so if they dont think they are going to win, its not just egg on their faces but real cash money being lost. But then again, its our tax money they are spending so maybe they dont care about that.

Regarding the pictures of the area, thanks for that. Seems like a beautiful area.

In our county they select 23 individuals for GJ duty. I have served on a GJ and my husband served on a GJ back in February of this year and is being recalled and must report to GJ duty again on 8-04 for a special session. In our state Grand Jurors are obligated for 6 months. Although it is very rare they are notified to return after the initial date they first served. Which peaks my interest of course as to why my hubby is being asked to return.

However; most people are not aware that even though a GJ has rendered an indictment it is still left up to the sole discretion of each Prosecutor whether he/she will take the case to trial.

Example: In the Jon Benet Ramsey case the GJ handed down an indictment against her parents but the DA did not think he had the evidence to prove the indictment BARD so therefore he refused to take it to trial. It is always left up to the DA whether any case actually goes to trial or not because he/she has the sole burden of proving each case.

So that is why I feel very comfortable in this case. The DA did not have to go forward if he felt he didn't have the evidence to prove the indicted charges. Imo, he is very comfortable with the evidence the TBI has amassed in Holly's case and that is why its headed to trial on the top charges.

IMO

 

[dog.gone.cute]

This case is so complex it is very hard to follow all the changes. They will need a team ofpeople each time it is in court.

:seeya: Hi goldenbear !


BBM: Yes, this case is hard to follow at times ... so many to keep track of:


ZA and JA -- 2 "besties" have been indicted and charged with the murder of Holly ...

Oh, and ZA has charges for "coercion" and "assaulting an officer in :jail: ...

JP and MP -- 2 "brothers" have been charged with being an accessory after the fact and having some sort of "video" ...

Oh, and MP is in :jail: on other charges ...

SA -- a "bestie" of ZA and JA who has an immunity deal pending -- or not -- not sure of the status ...

And WHO ELSE is on the TBI/LE radar ?


Another thing: LE has kept silent on just about everything, so not much to go on but "speculation" ...


lease: I just hope they find Holly and her Family gets Justice !

 

[OldSteve]

Because the DA has given plenty of room to wonder if she has a clue what she's doing.

MSM has reported that they have a source telling them the charges against the Pearcy bros are going to be dismissed in a couple weeks and that it was all a "mistake." That would indicate that they were arrested and charged, based on nothing more than uncorroborated allegations.

The process taken with SA also looked very much like they were more interested in applying pressure rather than following proper procedure.

It's that sort of stuff that leaves an impression that LE is simply throwing stuff against the wall and hoping something sticks.

It is always possible that the MSM report was crappy journalism, or that the source was clueless. But that's what we seem to know at the moment, and it's not the sort of stuff that inspires confidence in this LE operating within the confines of fairness or justice.

Sums it up very well!
I keep hoping things will get better - sadly, they don't!

 

[jggordo]

:seeya: Hi goldenbear !


BBM: Yes, this case is hard to follow at times ... so many to keep track of:


ZA and JA -- 2 "besties" have been indicted and charged with the murder of Holly ...

Oh, and ZA has charges for "coercion" and "assaulting an officer in :jail: ...

JP and MP -- 2 "brothers" have been charged with being an accessory after the fact and having some sort of "video" ...

Oh, and MP is in :jail: on other charges ...

SA -- a "bestie" of ZA and JA who has an immunity deal pending -- or not -- not sure of the status ...

And WHO ELSE is on the TBI/LE radar ?


Another thing: LE has kept silent on just about everything, so not much to go on but "speculation" ...


lease: I just hope they find Holly and her Family gets Justice !

I remember when I first joined this thread when all the initials had to be used, along with the A-Train and such I had to make myself a cheat sheet with the names and relationships. The family trees turned into vine. I became so thankful when arrests were made and MSM reported. So that we can use full names and not just initials.

I try to be mindful of visitors and other members just beginning to join this thread trying to understand what is going on.

JMO's

 

[SteveS]

Here I would disagree. It's very simple in the fact that until the state can prove a crime was committed they must stall for time because they have no case without proof that capitol murder occurred.

While that generality is true, the GJ already determined that they have evidence (if believed) to prove the crime in question occurred and could have been done by these defendants.

I am not a lawyer but perhaps there is a way to lower the charge to second degree murder without a separate indictment. The guidelines for capitol murder (a death penalty charge) are spelled out in the code and I really don't see any way to wiggle out of it without recalling the Grand Jury.

.......

So, that is the question. Can the death penalty charge be lowered(without recalling the grand jury) to 2nd degree murder in which a conviction could be attained without a death certificate?

Typically a GJ indictment will also be for "lesser included charges" such as 2nd degree, manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc. Then the DA will have the option of including or excluding the other possibilities, because it can be a positive OR a negative to getting a conviction on the desired crime to allow the jury to determine the validity of lesser alternatives.

From what I understand-from persons familiar with the legal status of capital murder-this is the first and only time this has ever happened so it difficult to forecast just where this goes next.

I'm not sure what you are saying is "first and only time" in this case, but I doubt anything they have done or might do here is going to be new or unique to American history of justice.

 

[spooky24]

the GJ already determined that they have evidence (if believed) to prove the crime in question occurred and could have been done by these defendants.

No-The grand jury's function is to determine if there is enough evidence to continue the case-it has nothing to do with guilt.

The function of the citizen panel is to stop prosecutors from putting people in jail and 'hoping' to find more evidence. Also, hearsay evidence is allowed along with speculation and even conjuncture from detectives.

It appears now they do have a plan. If they can't beat or abuse the two men into confessions they can-without resurrecting the grand jury-simply drop the capitol charge and prosecute for conspiracy. From intercepted phone calls and other circumstantial evidence they may have enough to convict on collusion. Since there are no sentencing guidelines they can be given 100 days or 100 years. They could lock them up for life just for conspiracy to commit murder without a death certificate.

As far as prosecuting murder without victim:

Normally, you have a body and a coroner who will tell you the cause of death. With a missing body, you don’t have that. You have to prove by circumstantial evidence that there was a death and the death occurred by criminal means.

This is so problematic in this case. They can bombard the jury with testimony about the victim never used social media or any financial means after going missing, people who knew the victim and so on. Still, if I was on the Jury I would want some kind of smoking gun evidence that the victim is dead and had been murdered-something else that stands out-your talking about a life sentence for someone and being ask just to skip that part of the puzzle. I just don't think a jury will do that-or I have a hard time believing they would.

I guess individually you would need to ask yourself if you could live with giving these men a life sentence without any hard proof that the victim is even dead?

In going over the last few cases in TN the one that stands out is Perry March. Janet's body was never found however Perry's father testified in court and in a written statement that he disposed of the body by throwing it on a bonfire somewhere in Kentucky. So, in a legal sense there was a body. Also, Perry was convicted of conspiracy which gave him a life sentence.

That explains much about this case as they must have-or they think they have-enough to convict on conspiracy.

One might think: How is the 'family adviser' going to feel about this? I believe there is a consensus that neither the TBI or the Attorney General give a damn what they think anymore. They appear to have been out of the loop since the maximum stupidity of the 'front porch rant'