HOW does the State Prove it was not George?

[Donjeta]

BBM. Not if he was trying to implicate Casey, as the defense has said. Think about that for a minute. I personally DO NOT think George had anything to do with it, but IF he did, he would not have done things in a way that would point to him.

Then it's not George since he used his own duct tape and stuff from the house that could just as easily point to him as to Casey...? As the defense has kindly pointed out.

IMO the biggest problem with the "George was there when Caylee drowned and attempted to frame Casey for it" is the timeline. If it was honestly an accident and he came upon Caylee's body he had a very short time to come up with the idea. He had to make the decision and formulate some kind of rudimentary plan very quickly to override what would have been his and Casey's first instinct, to call 911.

"Oh no, there's Caylee, is she dead, I gotta call 911, where's my phone...No, hey, wait, this is wonderful, now I can use Caylee to frame Casey for her murder, can I? Guess I've always wanted to do that, have I? How can I use it against her? How to make it look like murder? There's Casey, now I've got to stop her from calling 911, what should I say? Yo, Casey, your mom is never going to forgive you for this, now just go along and party like a good girl and I'll dump your daughter's body. If anybody asks, you tell them she's with the nanny and if you smell a weird odor in your car don't look in the trunk because I put squirrels there."

 

[songline]

That is what I think too (that he helped clean up) and why he pauses and such when questioned as he tells what he know but, not all he knows. Also my parents and I have discussed this. As GA is a former LE I would assume he would have done a better job of hiding the body if he were the one that disposed of her.

I believe the body has been moved, and I am not clear that it is GA that moved it. He knew that someone must be watching.
Maybe when he was out grocery shopping he asked some kid to do him a favor, (just saying, not sure it was that way

 

[lisasalinger]

"Oh no, there's Caylee, is she dead, I gotta call 911, where's my phone...No, hey, wait, this is wonderful, now I can use Caylee to frame Casey for her murder, can I? Guess I've always wanted to do that, have I? How can I use it against her? How to make it look like murder? There's Casey, now I've got to stop her from calling 911, what should I say? Yo, Casey, your mom is never going to forgive you for this, now just go along and party like a good girl and I'll dump your daughter's body. If anybody asks, you tell them she's with the nanny and if you smell a weird odor in your car don't look in the trunk because I put squirrels there."

Very well said!!

I really, really hope the jury steps away from all of the smoke screen about George having access to the duct tape, car, etc and really focuses on playing out this ludicrous scenario that was presented to them. Anybody with two brain cells to rub together could sit down, think this out, and realize IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!

 

[Soulmagent]

George had control of the duct tape.

He had keys to the Pontiac.

He had access to all of the burial items.

He knew about the burial site.

He attempted suicide.

He did not call LE when he left the tow yard.

He had no response when he first 'learned' about Caylee being missing.

He went secretly to LE and gave incriminating evidence about Casey.

Casey has all the symptoms of abuse survivor.

George lied and cheated on his wife.

George lied about having a job for awhile.

George had a bad gambling addiction and liked to look at escort sites.

George had a very volatile temper.

The murder weapon in his hands before and after Caylee's body was found.
If the jury believes there was a murder.

I believe if GA job lying comes out jury might explode. How much can 12 people take?

 

[poco]

Why would you duct tape the mouth/nose of a dead person?

 

[Soulmagent]

Why would you duct tape the mouth/nose of a dead person?

To keep flys from getting in the mouth and nose of the body. I wouldnt be able to stand the thought of that.

 

[eleni777]

Why would you duct tape the mouth/nose of a dead person?

Staging...to make it look like a kidnapping..:maddening:

 

[MaraSleuth]

Staging...to make it look like a kidnapping..:maddening:

I have always have felt that this was done post mortem to look like a kidnapping. I don't believe that it was the weapon used to kill Caylee.

The DT should have said Caylee drowned and KC freaked because her mom is nuts and she has been domineered, beaten down by a narcissistic mother and she staged a kidnapping. That might have cast reasonable doubt. With their OS - they screwed up BIG TIME. They should have known that there is no way to get KC off totally (31 days, anyone?) - he should have went for a lower charge and plead down.

 

[Kat]

George had control of the duct tape.

He had keys to the Pontiac. Yes he did and so did KC so this is something that will be evaluated IMHO

He had access to all of the burial items. Yes he did, so did KC this will be evaluated

He knew about the burial site.Haven't seen it proven that he knew about it yet (talking about testimony, witnesses that say he did...etc.

He attempted suicide. It would have to be proven that the reason he attempted was because he was involved, IMHO I don't see this as an indication of guilt

He did not call LE when he left the tow yard. This might be used by defense I agree, esp. after his interview with LE that he recognized the smell

He had no response when he first 'learned' about Caylee being missing. I'm not sure what you mean by this statement, I'm sorry

He went secretly to LE and gave incriminating evidence about Casey.Yes, Maybe depends on how LE goes with this, they might use this to create reasonable doubt

Casey has all the symptoms of abuse survivor.She has some, but she the symptoms she exhibits could also be explained in other ways

George lied and cheated on his wife.I think it can be proven he lied if CA will testify to that, the cheated on his wife is up in the air, he denys it IIRC or did he state that in a sworn statement, I can't remember

George lied about having a job for awhile.Would have to prove who he lied to in order and have them testify to such in order to prove he lied

George had a bad gambling addiction and liked to look at escort sites.Gambling addiction does not equate murder or hiding a dead body for someone, I'm not sure the defense could connect an alleged addiction to those. Was it proven that GA was on the computer without any doubt when the escort sites were looked at? Did no one else have access to computer?

George had a very volatile temper.There is an alleged incidence with is father I remember, but that was denied. Then he pushed a demonstrator in front of his home, which given the context doesn't show him as volatile, how will defense show this and who will they call to support this and who can the SA call to refute it?

I added some thoughts in red, I haven't finished reading the thread since I posted yesterday but IMHO yes the defense is going to get GA in this but I'm not sure they are going to frame him for her murder.

They would have to admit that Caylee was murdered. The exact time of death can't be determined and neither can exactly where she died. Neither can the exact COD. The manner of death was determined by Dr. G but she can be refuted by other professional testimony (I'm not saying I disagree, I'm saying what the defense can do).

I can't speculate anymore but did listen to CM this morning during his motions.

I was just trying to see where they might go with this, they are arguing that there was no murder, no proof of murder, no child aggravating child abuse, no proof of such...etc.

all jmho opinion as of this minute and it's sure to change when we see what defense has to say.

 

[cecybeans]

CA did a nice, subtle piece of damage when she testified she had not seen the Winnie the Pooh blanket since the end of May. Since we know that KC had Caylee in her care during that time - had spent nights over at RM's around June 9 on, then it is logical to assume it was with Casey and Caylee. If that blanket had showed up for one minute in the interim, I have no doubt CA would have washed it, as she admitted she continued to do with Caylee's sheets even after she left.

If it was in ICA's possession, then how did GA somehow retrieve it to wrap Caylee's body in it, since he is apparently in charge of her disposal? And if ICA somehow handed over the blanket to her dad (which had to have been in her car), as some sort of tender homage to her daughter, then she would have also put the Mama doll with it and we know it was not, but sitting on her carseat abandoned. ANd it was not only smelly but dirty because CA wiped it off with Clorox sheets. And I'll tell ya what - if something like this shows up in ICA's testimony, then I know her scummy DT is reading this and items like this on forums more than they are doing their own work preparing for the case.

In fact, the more I think about it the more it would become apparent to me that if ICA had simply been planning on putting Caylee to sleep in the trunk, she would have for sure put Caylee in there with Mama doll, not just a blanket to calm her enough to be quiet. Since ICA had an exact same doll (and only one), and she is extremely jealous, I'm guessing that doll was yet another bone of contention for ICA in seeing Caylee as being her replacement in the family. The fact it was sitting on Caylee's car seat also must have been an immediate red flag to CA. If ICA had left her at a "nanny", then she surely would have handed her over with her favorite doll.

 

[Nikki 01]

It appears that the main defense strategy will be GEORGE DID IT. And Kronk helped at the end. And Cindy left the ladder up...

They are even going to imply that George is framing Casey because he was abusing Caylee and did not want to be exposed, imo. - This theory makes no sense because if he did molest her wouldn't she be more likely to expose him if he letting her go to jail for something she didn't do? If I was Casey and I felt I was being framed I'd be singing like a bird, but she hasn't until now. Also if it was an accident why would she lie? Why wouldn't she have said so sooner? The sex abuse claim doesn't fly with me as an explanation either. I could buy that she was messed up due to it, but why lie when your are in hot water with the law? It makes no logical sense other than the fact that she had something to hide. So this theory of Baez' is BS and people will see through it.

So does the state have any solid evidence that can prove his innocence and her guilt? - They don't have to prove his innocence. Can they prove Cindy, Lee, Tony Lazarro, and the mailman is innocent? No, but they can prove Casey is guilty since the evidence points to her.

Their 'evidence' :

George had control of the duct tape. - It's not like he kept it under lock and key in a safe in his bedroom. We know he used it, but duct tape is one of those things that can be easily found lying around someone's basement, garage, or shed and anyone in the household can access. All this establishes is that the Anthony's owned this brand and Casey could have got it from the house.

He had keys to the Pontiac. - The car was in Casey's possession so if GA placed Caylee's body in the car to decompose for several days she had to be aware. Also the defense team are trying to argue out of both sides of their mouth on this one. They are also trying to dispute all of the car evidence. They can't have it both ways. If they think GA placed her then there is no reason to dispute the car evidence. If they don't believe she was ever in there than GA had nothing to do with it.

He had access to all of the burial items. - Sure and this would be interesting if there were reason to suspect him of something, but there isn't. There's also no reason to believe that this was anything other than a murder committed by Casey.

He knew about the burial site. - He did?

He attempted suicide. - Not proof of anything and IMO not unusual in the face of extreme grief. He lost his beloved Caylee and was losing Casey. Would be normal for depression to set in over it.

He did not call LE when he left the tow yard. - Cindy didn't call LE right away either. The man at the tow yard didn't either. All of these people knew the smell of death, but I think people naturally don't want to assume the worst. If you someone you knew had a car that smelled awful would you automatically think they murdered someone? I wouldn't. Plus you had the denial of CA and GA. They knew deep down something was wrong, but they didn't want to allow themselves to believe Caylee was gone and Casey would be responsible.


He had no response when he first 'learned' about Caylee being missing. - I don't think it is odd, because he could have been shocked and needed time to process things. If I came home and someone told me a loved one was missing my first reaction would be like "what?" I wouldn't be screaming and wailing. I'd be like what's really going on here?

He went secretly to LE and gave incriminating evidence about Casey. - You mean he told the truth? The horror! I know Baez was trying to spin that, but it was clear that he was just trying to get to the bottom of everything when Cindy and Lee were in spin mode. It was very clear that the parenting of Casey would have been a lot different if George had his way, but Cindy ran things. Cindy was running things here as well. All I see was a man who was doing what felt right in his gut.

Casey has all the symptoms of abuse survivor. - Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. I'm not an expert and have no idea. In my non expert opinion she just comes across as a sociopath who wanted no responsibilities and a free ride in life. I also don't think being a survivor explains the 31 days and her lies to her parents and to the police. I could buy that she would lie about boyfriends and friends if she lived in her own little world, but I just don't see how that adds up to all of her other behavior. It doesn't make sense.
I would need to hear from an expert to explain to me about the symptoms of sex abuse and say that she presents as a survivors. Otherwise forget it, it doesn't fit to me. And I could see the jury feeling the same way.

My responses are in bold.

 

[SindyBill]

How do we know George attempted suicide, and wasn't just drunk/under the influence/distraught enough to say it for attention? Don't suicidal people usually not warn family members before hand? Maybe he wanted to be Baker Acted?

 

[Justin Tyme]

How does the SA prove that GA is not guilty??? Are you serious? It's simple. Just put ICA on the stand. Everyone already knows if she opens her mouth it's a lie. Geez. Even her DT reminds us over and over again that she lies. They just use another word for lie. How did they put it? Untruths? Or did they say lies?

 

[Leila]

The state has built a strong case against Casey. It's not any one piece of evidence, it's the preponderance of all the evidence in total. We've all watch the state's case as if unfolded, chronologically and methodically.

The state doesn't have to prove that George didn't have anything to do with Caylee's death and disposal. They only have to prove that Casey, and Casey alone, is responsible for Caylee's death and disposal.

There's no evidence that George had anything to do with Caylee's death and disposal. We only have the defense's opening statement, which isn't evidence that the jury can consider, in which the defense/Casey accuses her father of molestation and that he was present at the time of Caylee's death. She further accuses her father of disposing of Caylee's body and that Roy Kronk later moved Caylee's remains.

The state rested without putting some of the witnesses on their witness list on the stand. In light of the defense's opening statement, I think this was a brilliant maneuver on the state's part. They're allowing the defense to put people on the stand that were on the state's witness list, and are letting the defense to paint themselves into a corner in regards to the lack of evidence they have to "prove" Casey didn't do it. In cross examination, the state will have the opportunity to diffuse the witness testimony and make the state's case even stronger.

The state will then do a rebuttal and can put witnesses on the stand to refute allegations made by the defense in their case in chief.

I'm confident that the state will prevail.

 

[Donjeta]

To keep flys from getting in the mouth and nose of the body. I wouldnt be able to stand the thought of that.

If George is squeamish like that would he be able to stand the thought of the baby in garbage bags, scattered by animals and rotting like garbage either?

 

[katydid23]

Does anyone know who is going to be on the stand tomorrow? I am guessing it will be Dr. Spitz and maybe their botanist.

I wonder what their trying to prove with the experts from the body farm. I suppose they are going to impeach Dr. Vass somehow.

 

[Just Jayla]

Does anyone know who is going to be on the stand tomorrow? I am guessing it will be Dr. Spitz and maybe their botanist.

I wonder what their trying to prove with the experts from the body farm. I suppose they are going to impeach Dr. Vass somehow.

The defense is fortunate that LDB and crew don't play the games JB plays, they likely will not belittle the defense witnesses like JB did...although we know some of them have major faults. Should be interesting.
I giggled at the little comment JB made abuot Dr. Lee early in the trial. Since he cannot actually have Dr. Lee, he name dropped instead.
Desperado....

 

[Irish_Eyes]

The DT would have had a way more believable defense if they had left GA and RK out of it, and just said she was traumatized by some unknown dude and she denied Caylee's pregnancy, and made up crazy lies, and had anxiety and insomnia as a result of her trauma, and when this horrible accident happened, this already young, immature, mentally unstable person just plain panicked.

Like some of the talking heads on TV have said, it is the State that has the burden of proof. However, if the State has put on a compelling case, the jurors may now be looking to the DT to give them reasons NOT to believe it. But to me, this means the DT has to be credible, and their theories and arguments believeable. And they're not. I don't think GA has much to worry about, IMHO.

 

[Bobbisangel]

George covering up this murder simply defies logic. WHY on earth would he do that? He had nothing to gain! IF he had been involved at all, he would have called 911 and given Caylee a respectful funeral. Why would he have thrown Caylee in the woods? Cindy would have murdered him when she found out and he knew it. If there is one true-ism in this whole case, it was that George didn't want to get Cindy all stirred up and going off on him. He could have GUARANTEED that if he had discarded her beloved granddaughter as trash he would have been chewed up and spit out right beside her. NO WAY would George have been involved in a cover-up - not for Casey, not for anybody.

Cindy wasn't the only person that loved that little girl with all of her heart. George loved her just as much. He was devistated when she went missing and then found dead. I remember when he wrote those notes and went to that motel with the thought of taking pills and ending his life. He didn't do it but just drank and thought. I think that was a cry for help from George. He said that he just wanted to go be with Caylee. I can understand how he could have felt like that. There is no way that George would have ever hurt a hair on Caylee's head. If he had found that baby in the swimming pool I think he would have called 911 and started CPR on her. He would have never wrapped her up in bags and thrown her in the woods. That baby was his life just the same as she was Cindy's life. When Casey got out of jail it was George who tried to make her tell him where Caylee was. Cindy stopped him. He wanted her to just mark on a map where Caylee was. Cindy stepped in again. People say "well George didn't call 911." He didn't need to call...Cindy was calling. He did talk openly to the police and the FBI. This man is no molester or baby killer or anything else. I'd like to see Casey get up on that stand! The Pros will rip her to pieces and I will enjoy watching them do it!

 

[katydid23]

Cindy wasn't the only person that loved that little girl with all of her heart. George loved her just as much. He was devistated when she went missing and then found dead. I remember when he wrote those notes and went to that motel with the thought of taking pills and ending his life. He didn't do it but just drank and thought. I think that was a cry for help from George. He said that he just wanted to go be with Caylee. I can understand how he could have felt like that. There is no way that George would have ever hurt a hair on Caylee's head. If he had found that baby in the swimming pool I think he would have called 911 and started CPR on her. He would have never wrapped her up in bags and thrown her in the woods. That baby was his life just the same as she was Cindy's life. When Casey got out of jail it was George who tried to make her tell him where Caylee was. Cindy stopped him. He wanted her to just mark on a map where Caylee was. Cindy stepped in again. People say "well George didn't call 911." He didn't need to call...Cindy was calling. He did talk openly to the police and the FBI. This man is no molester or baby killer or anything else. I'd like to see Casey get up on that stand! The Pros will rip her to pieces and I will enjoy watching them do it!

I agree with everything you said. I just wonder if the jury knows all of that about George. I know some people who don't know much about this case, and George seems strange to them. They believe he abused her and is hiding something and they think it is weird the way he answers questions on the stand.

I don't think so at all, but that is because I watched the grief he went through. I just hope they were able to see that from the evidence they have been presented so far.