How Many Steps to Innocence??

[madeleine]

As I said, damned if she did, damned if she didn't.

Damned that she made a ridiculous circus out of it,knowing they got NADA on him.

 

[Agatha_C]

Good call Maddy....

 

[otg]

Murri Flower,...

Ever tell a joke that no one gets?

I posted one here that I just found out... probably no saw. I have a font on the computer I usually use called "Ransom Note". I used it to write a post in Word, copy, and then paste in my reply. I wasn't sure if it would work, so after pasting it in the "Reply" box, I hit the "Preview Post" button, and it looked fine. You can see below the post I saw in the screen capture of what I see.

But when I later went on another computer, the formatting had been changed. Apparently, if you don't have the same font loaded on the computer you are using, you simply see it as some other default font. So I guess no one saw what I originally posted as I posted it.

Okay, here is the intended post (I know, no joke is ever funny when you have to explain it.):

I guess in the future I should leave the jokes to the professionals?
.

 

[Agatha_C]

Otg, that was funny, you are a professional and I would know...lololololol

 

[Agatha_C]

I found it funny the first time, I was just afraid to laugh...lolollolololololol

 

[joeskidbeck]

otg, I laughed the first time. You just couldn't hear me.

 

[BBB167893]

Yes, that was the point I tried to make, "not being able to be excluded" is hardly a "match". There would be hundreds of thousands of people who would fit in that category.

Even if that's true, and that's one VERY big "if," how many of those hundred-thousand can be proven to have been in the house that night?

ONE.

 

[BBB167893]

Well, I don't think whether she "liked" him or not is really the point. Perhaps she had other reasons not to want him to be guilty.

Such as?

Tapping forehead is what I've been doing recently also.

Not too hard, I hope.

I'm up to further up now with you guys.

My heart bleeds.

You are so fond of Occams Razor, until it looks like shaving too close to RDI.

I'm afraid you'll have to explain how Occam's Razor applies to this, other than as a smashing example of its opposite.

Some nutcase is found who reckons he did it and you can't wait to see him walk, cause it'd interfere with your linching of the Rs.

That's not even worth a response.

This case is in such lousy shape because of lousy policework, caused by an incorrect assumption that the parents were the murderers.

Yeah, I've heard it all before. BS, I say.

Everyone here is blind to anything they don't believe,

Heard THAT before, too.

but I think it's unfair to accuse me of being unwilling to consider other possibilities --

If the shoe fits...

I've looked at every angle I can think of so far trying to find a solution to this crime.

You could have fooled me! As far back as I can remember you being here, you've devoted most of your energy towards bashing everyone else, with me as a special project due to some belief that I'm some sort of "leader" around here. If you've examined any angle except the one you've been on so far, I have yet to see any evidence of it.

Not able to exclude is not the same thing as matched.

It's not a science. Sometimes that's the best you get.

Too late, I already did.

I knew you would anyway.

Not luck, EVIDENCE!!

LUCK Period.

 

[BBB167893]

This is not what RDI wants everyone to believe. The truth is that there was no legitimate reason, whatsoever, for JMK to be brought back to the USA.
If you read his confession, the arrest warrant, and the transcript of ML's news conference relating to Karr, you will see that it was a baseless arrest.
What he described with JBR was a pack of lies.
What he was doing in Thailand had nothing at all to do with JBR.
No, there were outstanding misdemeanor charges (insufficient for extradition,) but the US arrest warrant charged him with murder, kidnapping and sexual assault of a child (JBR.)
Pretty much everyone did, she was eviscerated in the press, and rightly so.
The little girl's memory and the loved ones who survive her deserve knowing and peace, not this.
That the first time John Mark Karr ever steps foot in Boulder County will be the day Mary Lacy flies him in, well, that is simply sad and embarrassing. Not funny at all.
Rocky Mountain News 8/19/06, Bill Johnson
Facing a whirlwind of criticism since dropping the case after DNA testing eliminated Karr as a suspect…
Bringing Karr from Thailand to Los Angeles and then to Boulder has been widely criticized - even by the governor…
She said she has personally taken angry phone calls from Boulder County citizens and returned the call of a Longmont man who said she should resign and be "tarred and feathered and run out of town."
http://www.denverpost.com/jonbenet/ci_4258075
Gov. Bill Owens has already called for her resignation for having "wasted thousands of taxpayer dollars" on "the most extravagant and expensive DNA test in Colorado history."
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4257909
There is nothing brave or heroic about Lacy steadfastly working toward her longstanding goal of exonerating the Ramseys at all cost.

The following are excerpts from Lacy’s news conference:

Mary Lacy: “I want to make it absolutely clear up front that the decisions were mine, the responsibility is mine and I should be held accountable for all decisions in this case.”
…
Mary Lacy: We took surreptitious DNA on multiple occasions. Immediately upon locating this person - who went to mailboxes to pick up a package that we sent to him., two different officers took DNA off of the bicycle that he rode back. On a separate occasion, they obtained a cup that he used to drink from and a tissue or wipe that he used to wipe his hands. The bottom line is that after we did that, our expert - and we put a great deal of respect in our expert from the Denver lab - said that the sample in the underwear of the victim was a mixed sample and that we do not want to compare a mixed sample with a mixed sample. We need a pristine sample.
…
Reporter: So bottom line, you had no evidence when he stepped off the plane in Boulder? You had absolutely no evidence other than his bizarre e-mails which you agree that… a person could have concocted. That’s the only thing you had that would place him in this crime scene.. In other words, you had nothing… essentially - other than his statements?
Mary Lacy: We had probable cause to arrest him based on our having tested other statements within the e-mails and the telephone calls. Which is typically how we test credibility in someone - are they prone to lying about other things in their lives? Because if they’re lying about other things, they’re probably lying about this too.
Carol McKinley: So what was different about this guy - as opposed to some of the other guys whom we know you seriously looked at in the past nine and a half years. What was so different about this guy and why was the arrest made on him and not the others?
…
Mary Lacy: Well the difficulty with this person is that.. Uh.. Most of the time when you look at what a person tells you they committed the crime and here’s how they did it, you can discount it almost immediately. Uhm… it’s not just that it’s bizarre but there are factors in it where you can say “this person is just dead wrong”. And most of the time that happens - I’d say 95% of the time. Occasionally someone contacts us who appears to be a little more serious. In this case, because he believed it himself and continues to believe, he had all of the emotional .. Uhm… import that you would have when… Did anyone have an opportunity to listen to the telephone calls of the 15th July and the 22nd of July? The man is sobbing as he’s telling his story. He can’t talk, he goes away from the phone, he comes back. He has the psychopathy, the background that you would expect or look for in a person who’s committed a crime of this nature. This was an extremely violent crime. So when you combine the psychopathy and his statements and his emotional import and his knowledge of the crime and his knowledge of the family. We spent time with John and Patsy Ramsey and something that John Ramsey said to me was that… and he read the e-mails - had read them previously, He said “This person has personal knowledge of these family members. His description of the Paugh women is right on”. He said “I don’t know how you would know that, you wouldn’t see it from the outside.”. he said “His description of JonBenet and Burke and how they related to each other …“. he said “It’s dead on. He knows….”. So John’s take on it was “you need to pay attention to this” and this was back in May of this year.
…
Man: Would you do it all again?
Mary Lacy: You know, I think that we felt that we could not ignore this, we had to follow it, we also had an issue that we haven’t talked about is that there was a real public safety concern here directed at a particular child and a person who was expressing feelings toward that child the same as the feelings he felt towards the dead child and I have to tell you that was a huge factor in what…how this occurred in this particular case.
Mary Lacy Press Conference Re: John Mark Karr, 08/29/06

To recap, ML’s reasons for bringing JMK back to the USA:

• They needed a “pristine” sample of his DNA. FALSE

DR. LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC EXAMINER: Well, like many other people I'm somewhat shocked but I'm not shocked that he was let off the hook. I'm shocked that apparently the D.A. Mary Lacy did not have anything of any substance that connected him to the victim or the crime scene.
She was gambling and I hate to use the word bungling but the case was bungled from the beginning, as we all know. The crime scene wasn't handled properly and, again here, you know, I think they really should have waited until they had some kind of physical evidence before they arrested this individual.
And I don't buy it. I don't buy that they couldn't take surreptitious DNA. It's done many times here in the states. People get convicted on that basis. I don't buy it.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/28/lkl.01.html

• Could not find evidence of untruthfulness in his correspondence with Tracey. FALSE

How could ML say this nonsense with a straight face? Oh wait a minute, I forgot, because she’s ML.
Seriously, if she cannot see “there are factors in it where you can say “this person is just dead wrong” then she is quite simply blind.
Just two examples of errors which I noted previously:
“Karr said he waited until he believed all occupants of the home were asleep then entered into JonBenets bedroom obtained her from her bed as she was sleeping and carried the sleeping child down a stairwell into a basement level room. Within the room JonBenet was placed on his lap and he spoke with her and stroked her hair.”
“Karr added he placed underwear or "knickers" onto JonBenet that he brought with him. The underwear brought by Karr was several sizes too large for JonBenet.”
http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/newworld/johnkarr.pdf

• John Ramsey said, “You need to pay attention to this”

Taking advice from a primary suspect in a murder case is ridiculous.

• He was “grooming” a girl in Thailand.

Karr in Thailand was Thailand’s problem. Authorities could have been tipped off and I’m certain that a Thai prison would have done wonders for Karr.

To conclude, they flew JMK back to the USA, first class, when there was no physical evidence connecting him to the crime and with no evidence that he was ever in Boulder, much less in the Ramsey home. This is in addition to a "confession" that was riddled with inaccuracies.

A grand slam as always, cynic. Bill Owens was right on when he called for her resignation. Even Nixon knew when to call it quits.

To expand on that, here's what I wrote on her conduct in the Karr Wreck (lol):

Her conduct violated the most basic elements of procedure that a first-year law student would know. It was clear to many that she was a pro-Ramsey partisan and was trying to give them a gift. There should have been a recall election. She should have been forced to resign. The case should have been taken over by capable professionals. But none of that happened, because after ten years nobody gave a damn.

There is nothing brave or heroic about Lacy steadfastly working toward her longstanding goal of exonerating the Ramseys at all cost.

I can think of a few OTHER words for it!

 

[BBB167893]

As I said, damned if she did, damned if she didn't. I like it that she chose the road that kept a child safe, even if it meant she was vilified for it. That showed guts.

Would you be so charitable if you knew how badly she performed in another case with a dead child?

 

[DeeDee249]

Would you be so charitable if you knew how badly she performed in another case with a dead child?

Not only that, but she put other children at risk by bringing him here. Then, because they had NO evidence against him, they had to release him. He remains free in this country, where he is reported to have had a sex-change or at least is living as a woman. He was also reported to be trying to amass a group of JB "clones" that he can have control over.
This guy gives me the creeps- always has, always will.

He will kill a little girl one day.

 

[Toltec]

John Mark Karr is a marked man...I know he couldn't even get away with littering.

If JAR was in Atlanta Christmas Eve, then why would he fly to Boulder, molest and murder JonBenet, write a note, then fly back home in time for Melinda to pick him up at 6am? Why Christmas day? Why kill his half-sister the day before a trip to Charlevoix? Why not kill her in Charlevoix? Makes no sense to me.

How many people knew Jacques would not be in the home?
How many people knew the burglar alarm was never used?
How many people knew who was in the home Christmas night?

 

[MurriFlower]

Not only that, but she put other children at risk by bringing him here. Then, because they had NO evidence against him, they had to release him. He remains free in this country, where he is reported to have had a sex-change or at least is living as a woman. He was also reported to be trying to amass a group of JB "clones" that he can have control over.
This guy gives me the creeps- always has, always will.

He will kill a little girl one day.

Assuming that he hasn't already.

 

[SunnieRN]

FOUR YEARS of correspondence saying that he dun it. http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682486/John-Mark-Karr
Look under Incriminating Evidence.



He was teaching little children in a school where he really had no place to be for goodness sake! Grooming another little girl and telling Tracey about it!! Nothing to do with JBR I suppose but everything to do with possessing kiddi *advertiser censored* (the charge he fled the US for) and an admitted pedophile, lining up his next victim. Apparently the school was awake up to his behaviour and was about to terminate his employment, meaning that he could disappear again and this time maybe for good. So rather than seeking attention, he was actually trying to avoid detection. A bit unusual for a false confessor doncha think?



Well for what it's worth (and I'm thinking to RDI that would be less than very little) I think she did the right thing and only thing she could in the circumstances.


Well, you can't be arrested even in Thailand for something you haven't yet done I don't suppose. BUT if the US authorities had their attention drawn to a US citizen (already wanted in the USA on kiddie *advertiser censored* charges) who had confessed to a murder of one child in the USA and was telling somone he was grooming another child in Thailand, and did nothing about it, then that would be criminal.



It really sticks in your craw that he was flown back first class doesn't it??

He apparently told an investigator "If you don't let me plead guilty, how will you feel? How will you live with yourself when I kill a little girl?" Inaccuracies apparently crept into the confession, but in his correspondence with Tracey, everything he said about himself that was checkable was correct. This is one reason they believed he was telling the truth initially.

Haven't you considered that JMK played the odds and won? He had nothing to do with JBR or her death. Rather than giving thanks to ML, I would consider the fact that JMK is here, in the US, a monster, with the potential and propensity to hurt another child.

 

[MurriFlower]

Haven't you considered that JMK played the odds and won? He had nothing to do with JBR or her death. Rather than giving thanks to ML, I would consider the fact that JMK is here, in the US, a monster, with the potential and propensity to hurt another child.

Where ever he was there would be that risk.

 

[feddup]

Where ever he was there would be that risk.

so true...there is a website that gives out the 3 names he goes by, they say he also dresses asa woman sometimes, google his name. He is creepy.
At least someone seems to be keeping tabs on him, seems he likes the San Fransisco area.

 

[SunnieRN]

MF, there was a reason he wanted out of Thailand. Well, he got his wish. He may a least have had to go to prison if he stayed in Thailand! They knew about his 'activities' and the school was ready to fire him.

 

[Agatha_C]

You know, those foreign prisons are nothing nice (Not that I know first hand..lol) I have read stories though and it seems to me, American prisons are Disneyland compared to the Hanoi Hilton. Thats a powerful motivator for a shall we say, not so tough guy. Was it really that hard for people to see his motives for the lie, and he needed a good one to get him back home.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The reason I don't believe that JMK confessed to JBR's murder just to get out of Thailand prison was because of the emails he had sent to Michael Tracey starting in 2001. His email address was december251996@yahoo.com or something very similar to that so he's obviously had a creepy obsession with this case for years. Boulder LE should have just gotten Karr's DNA somehow, tested it, and if there was a match, then notify the press. After all, Michael Tracey was talking to Karr for 5 years before we found out about it. They easily could have kept it a secret for a little bit longer.

 

[SunnieRN]

Well, even though ML did everything in her power to convict him, she couldn't and he is free, unfortunately, as he is IMHO a danger to children. The R's however remain under suspicion.