I think people have come up with lots of very clever solutions to the problem. As far as I'm concerned, this thread has convinced me that, indeed, Kyron could have been taken out of the school by a readhead without being seen.
How to get yourself & a child out of the school and into a vehicle?
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CaringCitizen
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Here's the photo puf posted of kyron not wearing his glasses. Much different in appearance than the photoshopped image, IMO.
He is such a darling little boy!
Kyron, we are all on this board, spending countless hours learning about you and trying to figure out what happened to you. We are talking to each other, educating each other, and helping one another as police and others try desperately to solve your case. We all care about you and we demand justice for you. Forensic science has come along way and we guarantee that someday you will be brought home and your abuser will pay for this crime against you.
This sweetie pie dealt with A LOT given all the bios and steps and halves and adoptions and back and forths, all throughout this family and his life. But I think little Kyron would have gotten along just fine as an adult, had he not been snuffed out in childhood though. He loved forensics and other beings and would be proud of all of us for looking into this case on his behalf.
...Thank you, fellow sleuthers, for posting.
CaringCitizen
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Excellent, observant point, GD. Risk taker, yes. If one were hypothesizing that Terri could have done this and then one thought back about some KNOWN risks she took, the eyes start to get wide.
KNOWN RISKS include: continuing to use socmedia casually after your step-son was reported missing; driving while intoxicated and with your child in the car; getting into a relationship with the ex of your friend and that ex also happens to be your employer now; etc, etc, and some others I cannot post without getting yanked.
Too risky :snooty: :crazy: :innocent:
And as I have said in other posts, it's not that risky to leave the school with your own child. You can easily abandon the plan if things didn't work out so well during the departure. It is easy to ask the child who they talked to on the way to the car...etc. So even though there is RISK in carrying out a plan like this, it's not as difficult as some on the board think it would have to be. Sure, it is if you aren't a risk taker at all - but not so much if you have taken some big ones in the past and so far, you are still fine and free to live your life the way you want.
My opinion.
bdawk20
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If you wanted to get him to the truck without being seen, you maybe would have told him something like "You did such a good job on your project that I am going to take you for ice cream, to McDonald's (wherever he liked to go), but we don't want the other kids to know because then they'll all want to come...so you go out that door, run to the truck - remember it's a secret, so don't tell anybody and make sure nobody sees you." You tell him you are going to let his teacher know, and you'll meet him in the truck. You go down the hall and out the door....alone because Kyron's already gone out to the truck and is "making sure nobody sees him".
I'm not 100% convinced TH is involved, but the scenario is plausible and easier than a stranger abduction to pull off.
I'm not 100% convinced TH is involved, but the scenario is plausible and easier than a stranger abduction to pull off.
BeanE
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We've talked about the weather on June 4 in this thread. I didn't see the historical weather linked to. I just dug it up to look at something, so while I have the URL copied, I'm pasting it in here for reference:
http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KORPORTL26&month=6&day=4&year=2010
http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KORPORTL26&month=6&day=4&year=2010
But, a grid search was done on a 2 mile radius of the school. Nothing was found at all. The huge problem with this being an older ( school goes to the 8th grade ) student is that a body would have been found IMO. None of the kids at the school would be driving ; the problem becomes : what happened to Kyron, and where is he ???
nursebeeme
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in one of the media reports that I read today trying to catch up on this case I noticed the exchange between Kyron and another child; they say mutual hi's and than Kyron says he is going to see the cool electrical project.
*****following is speculative scenario on my part**********
kids and parents are milling all about, coming and going in and out of rooms... it is not a normal school morning people are in and out and all about. Suppose SM (or perp) tells Kyron she knows of a cool electrical experiment she will take him to see in the car??? Easy way to get him out of the building without protest???
Do we know if there was an actual electrical experiment in the school that day???
*****following is speculative scenario on my part**********
kids and parents are milling all about, coming and going in and out of rooms... it is not a normal school morning people are in and out and all about. Suppose SM (or perp) tells Kyron she knows of a cool electrical experiment she will take him to see in the car??? Easy way to get him out of the building without protest???
Do we know if there was an actual electrical experiment in the school that day???
GrainneDhu
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Absent any eyewitness testimony as to her affect and behaviour while posting to Facebook, I can't say whether she was being reckless or having moments of trying to make everything seem normal (magical thinking: if I act normal, then everything will be okay) or what.
Driving while intoxicated with child in car was reckless. And spectacularly stupid, no doubt about it. I don't drink at all (am allergic to alcohol) but I have done some really stupid things in my time and been lucky enough not to have suffered any truly bad consequences. So I wonder if she thinks she did something really, really stupid and was lucky enough to be caught because it gave her a wake-up call about her behaviour? Or did nothing change? The fact that she has not been re-arrested for DUI gives me reason to think that it is at least possible that she heeded the wake-up call.
Getting into a relationship with the ex of a friend? People keep implying it is something dreadful and I'm not yet understanding that. The relationship was all but over before Kyron was conceived and DY filed for divorce before he was born; why would DY care about who her ex went out with?
Getting into a relationship with an employer, I think you have to look at context. Not a very good idea in most corporate environments but this was not a corporate environment. This was a private home and two adults in close proximity. This certainly wouldn't be the first couple who started out as parent and nanny or client and bodyguard, etc.
So I'm not at all convinced that TMH is a huge risk taker.
Whoever made this little boy disappear was certainly a risk taker but I'm not sure that person was TMH.
I agree with the above.
However, I also think that there would not be much risk in a stranger or distant acquaintance saying to Kyron "hey, I need help bringing X in from my car and Miss Porter/your principal/whoever said you are strong and can help me." If any seemed to notice Kyron on the way out to the car, abort the attempt and no one would be the wiser.
Right now, I lean 45% towards a stranger or distant acquaintance abduction, 45% towards TMH and 10% towards other family member or Kyron walked away from school (more likely as a result of teasing/bullying than to find a tree frog, IMO).
The problem is, almost anything that can be posited as a method for TMH could equally well apply to a stranger or distant acquaintance.
If I were going to do this, I would wear a jacket or hoodie and sunglasses. I would arrive early and park in a optimal spot. I might even put my jacket around the child while leaving to building to "keep him warm". I would leave at an optimal time (i.e. a time most parents would already be in the building). If someone walked toward me, I would turn and walk another way. That wouldn't be suspicious because it's a parking lot and they don't know which car is mine. It might not be as hard as we think it is. And if I were spotted, I would just abort the operation.
With regard to the last sentence posted above : IMO, Kyron would react very differently to something a stranger,or distant aquaintance said than he would to something TM said. His level of trust would (hopefully) be very high with TM,and probably almost zero with a stranger. In other words,IMO, TM could have suggested things to Kyron,and he would have followed her wishes,but a stranger's request,or suggestion would not have been followed so easily, if at all...
All JMO
nursebeeme
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this got me to thinking along a somewhat similar line and could be why LE is trying to get more information on when people last saw Kyron and SM in other words could she have sent him back to the truck on his own?? and she meets him there later on her own using some sort of a "lure"...
Kyron was seen by a friend... Kyron tells him he is going to see a cool electrical experiment (could SM have told him this? to get him back out to the truck?)
SM was seen by a student (per a media report... sorry I have to dig it up) by herself.
GrainneDhu
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How do you account for the fact that there are many examples of children following the directions of strangers?
I have no idea if Kyron was taught one of the "stranger danger" programs but that is one method that attempts to teach children to be cautious of strangers.
I found one paper that assesses the effectiveness of "stranger danger" programs at this site:
http://www.human.cornell.edu/che/HD/CIRC/Publications/upload/HE-CIRC-pb-KulkofskyPDF.pdf
According to this site:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=1437
For some hair rising video showing just how easy it can be to lure off a seven year old boy:
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132098&page=1
Also, what if the perpetrator was a non-family someone that Kyron had met before or saw on a regular basis?
RoughlyCollie
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Well, I don't know about that. I recall well what transpired when I decided to see what my kids understood about stranger danger when the boys were 8 years old.
Because of their misconceptions (dangerous strangers were evil looking, or were people that I had never spoken with, or wear all black, for example), I had to narrowly define what a stranger is. My definition was real simple: Anyone who had not been in our house as an invited guest was a stranger. (The kids were homeschooled, so I didn't have to worry about school personnel and their Sunday School teacher lived with us.) This was a safe definition because the only invited guests we had were close friends of ours.
I will spare you everything I taught my kids, but it was comprehensive, covered many, many hypothetical situations, and was reinforced. Despite this, I will wager that any of my 7 or 8 year old kids would have been happy to help find a lost puppy or go with a stranger if the situation described to them were dire enough (I had been injured and was at the hospital), or if they could get their hands on a promised wild animal (tree frog, tarantula, snake, lizard, shark, whale).
The reason is that they were young kids, and they would have been focused on the puppy or their injured Mom, and "stranger" would have been the last thing on their minds.
Fast forward to when my boys had just turned 11. I took them to Kentucky Kingdom (Six Flags) while we were visiting relatives. We lived near Boston, where the culture is very different from that of Louisville. First, the kids were amazed that I "knew everybody" because I talked to people in line at stores. Second, a farmer and his wife sat next to me on a bench while our kids were riding some ride over and over. We talked, naturally, for about 1/2 hour. Afterward, the kids told my Dad about how one of my friends had been at the amusement park.
So, even at age 11, after several years of my reinforcing stranger danger concepts and hypothetical situations, my kids left their usual culture for one that is a lot more friendly, and were back at square one: Anyone I talked to was my friend.
One thing I think may have been an important factor is that we lived in a middle/upper middle class town in which crime did not occur. In 14 years of living in our house there, we never locked our doors or our cars, and we were the norm. The kids could leave bikes outside near the sidewalk (far from the house) for days, and they would not be stolen. The crime rate was practically nonexistent. Everyone we came into contact with was nice and "normal". It was like living in a bubble, when I compare it to where I live now. Until we moved to another state last year, I had no idea how our previous situation was not the norm.
Respectfully, in a possible comparison about who Kyron would most likely obey, between TM and a stranger or someone he knows slightly, IMO he would be most likely to do what TM told him to do,rather than a stranger or someone he knows slightly. His level of trust would ---IMO-- be highest with TM. Yes to the fact that kids can be lured ; it's how pedophiles operate.
Hi Roughly,
Respectfully, my post was not about stranger danger at all ; it was this : because Kyron would have a higher level of trust with TM,it would be more likely that he would do what she asked him to do (hypothetically) than what a total stranger asked him to do. The post I was responding to is upthread. So, nothing to do with our kids perceptions of who is a stranger. I do follow what you're saying,though, I went through those same things with my children ; I think most parents do ?
All JMO
RoughlyCollie
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Yes, I understand that. I agree that Kyron would have been more likely to do what his stepmother asked him to do. He would probably do anything his stepmother asked him to do, as a matter of fact, and hopefully would not have that 100% obedient response with a stranger.
My response, however, addresses your comment that Kyron's level of trust would be almost zero with a stranger.
I disagree, because I don't think young kids necessarily have trust on their minds, or that they can fully discern who the strangers are.
IOW, I think it is possible that Kyron went somewhere with a stranger. The narrow time frame doesn't dissuade me from this, because kids have been kidnapped from school bus stops and the time frame is narrow there, too.
I realize there are few witnesses at bus stops, and there sure were lots of them at the school that morning. Who was paying attention, though? In similar situations, the people there have paid attention to the science projects, to their kids, to other kids they knew, to teachers they knew -- but not to the general population at the event. I know this because I do pay attention to each individual in the general population at events like this.
Who felt like there could be danger, such that their awareness was heightened? I do, but in my experience, I am unusual. I am hyper-aware of my surroundings because I was kidnapped by a stranger when I was 19 years old. Over the decades since then, I have very often felt that people who are in a public place are safer when I'm there, because I continuously scan for the extraordinary clue that something is amiss and may someday function as an early warning system.
In a situation like that, in a community like that, with eyewitness testimony being so variable, I think it is possible that someone cut Kyron from the herd and abducted him.
At this point, whoever took Kyron is a complete mystery to me. It could have been a lot of people. I won't be surprised if it is TH, but I won't be surprised if it is someone else either, including another family member.
Calliope
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I'm not seeing the video, but the description was bad enough (I deleted the full names of the children):
Before going to the playground, 7-year-old PB told his mother, as she had taught him, that he would "kick and scream and run in the other direction" if a stranger asked him to go somewhere.
But when Wooden approached him in the playground and asked his name, he immediately answered, "P."
Then Wooden continued, using a lure an Oklahoma molester had used to win the trust of a child he assaulted in 1990. Showing P a photograph of a dog, Wooden said: "Here, P, my little puppy. His name is Shorty, and we're looking for him. He answers to the voice of little girls and little boys. And we're offering a reward of $10. Could you help look for him?"
P took the picture, looked around and yelled Shorty's name, then followed Wooden out of the park. Patrick's mother, who was watching via a video link-up, was horrified. "This is something I'll have to discuss with him much more thoroughly than I ever thought I would have to do," she said.
The same trick worked with four other children, including 5-year-old MN. Afterward, when her mother asked her sternly what she was supposed to do if a stranger approached her, M knew the right answer — run away — but didn't seem to think it applied to the man with the dog. "He wanted me to find Shorty," she said.
GrainneDhu
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However, we have no information that indicates that Kyron was given directions that contradicted anything TMH had told him to do.
I'm saying that I believe it is possible that Kyron was lured out of the school by a stranger or distant acquaintance and that it would not have been difficult to do so.