I can't find a hole in this theory...

[UKGuy]

If memory serves, Dr. McCann's assessment was that the acute genital wound had been inflicted with an object that had been jabbed in, which imo points to the paintbrush stick having been used to do this.

rashomon,
Why so, if JonBenet was cleaned up, so to remove evidence of any sexual assault?




.

 

[BOESP]

[snip]
As an aside, i thought you weren't responding to me anymore?

I meant the one particular post you kept repeating over and over and over.

Regardless of your or my opinion on whose pad and paper it was, the QDEs not hired by the Ramseys believed with reasonable probability that Patsy wrote the note. They are professionals and they had no dog in the race.

I agree with DeeDee, too, in that the "q" in the ransom note and Patsy's exemplars of "q's" are dead-on alike and very unique.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I hate to spoil the read of Kolar's book for people who didn't read this book yet...but as I read some posts on this and other threads in which posters have 'interpreted' Kolar's 'Theory of Prosecution' as the way of solving JBR case by prosecuting John Ramsey - I decided to go against my rules. Please take your time and read this carefully.

In December 2001, 'Kane indicated that, despite the numerous books and media stories that had cover the investigation, the public was not fully aware of the real facts of the case. There remains "dozens of secrets and what the public thinks is fact is simply not the fact"' (page 180).

'I subsequently prepared a document that outlined a theoretical concept of the events that had taken place in Ramsey house-hold on the night of December 25, 1996, and the potential criminal charges that I believed were supported by the evidence in the case'. (page 420)

''The Theory of Prosecution that I sent to Stan Garnet and Mark Beckner also included some closing thoughts and observations on the status of the investigation, as well as a suggestion on how the case might be moved forward toward closure. These comments also included references to grand jury.' (page 425)

'I expressed my belief to Garnett and Beckner, that theory of family involvement ...was supported by witness interviews and Ramsey statements, forensic findings, fingerprints, trace evidence, and an identifiable childhood pathology that explained the circumstances leading up to, and surrounding the death of JonBenet......and that there continued to be a course of action to pursue through the assistance of grand jury.....Yet clearly, the death of JonBenet remains an open murder investigation, and while no one is likely to ever be criminally charged with this crime, I expressed the opinion that there are proactive steps that should be taken to bring it to resolution and closure'. (page 428,429)

'Under the current set of legal circumstances, it may very well be that some of the leads I suggested in the case are beyond the reach of law enforcement authorities...What prosecutor, or police chief, would want to expend additional public funds in pursuit of a murder investigation when they know that it will not result in the conviction of the person responsible for the crime?'. (page 441,442)
Kolar, 'Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?', 2012

My understanding and believe:

1. Kolar wants to assemble new Grand Jury to be able to achieve the following:
- 'unseal' Ramsey's medical files;
- present new evidences/theories;
- clear the people who been put 'under Ramsey bus' for no apparent reasons;
- take the blame FROM and give the proper acknowledgment TO BPD investigators, especially the ones who left the LE frustrated, burned out and not-appreciated;
- give the Victory to US Justice (not to the power of the money by which this Justice could be bought!);
- and finally, to CLOSE this case.

2. We, as the public, do NOT have the full knowledge of the facts. Therefore, we have no rights to cheer for the 'prosecution' of particular R (especially, based on Kolar book!). We have the rights to speculate, make the theories, discuss available to us evidences, educate ourselves in intelligent discussions, if needed, write petitions to the government authorities...and pray for the new Grand Jury.

JM(strong!)O

 

[DeeDee249]

If "nobody makes a Q like Patsy" then why did so many handwriting experts rule her out as RN author?

The fact is, the pseudoscience of handwriting analysis should be left out of people's theories.

Actually, she wasn't ruled "out". I fact, she was the ONLY one who could not be excluded as the author of the RN. While this is not the same as saying she DID write it, she was by no means ruled OUT.

 

[redheadedgal]

I hate to spoil the read of Kolar's book for people who didn't read this book yet...but as I read some posts on this and other threads in which posters have 'interpreted' Kolar's 'Theory of Prosecution' as the way of solving JBR case by prosecuting John Ramsey - I decided to go against my rules. Please take your time and read this carefully.

...

also:

page 449-450:

Under those circumstances, I had to wonder whether John Ramsey was aware of the events surrounding the death of his daughter at the time he made this statement to Stewart Long*. The changing story line he revealed over the history of his statements led me to believe that it was only later that he became involved in the web of deception that became apparent after the discovery of his daughter's body.

*finding jonbenet's body @ 11 am

 

[txsvicki]

Wow, dozens of secrets and facts that the public thinks they know but are not really facts.

 

[SyraKelly]

also:

page 449-450:

Under those circumstances, I had to wonder whether John Ramsey was aware of the events surrounding the death of his daughter at t-he time he made this statement to Stewart Long*. The changing story line he revealed over the history of his statements led me to believe that it was only later that he became involved in the web of deception that became apparent after the discovery of his daughter's body.

*finding jonbenet's body @ 11 am

Hey Red-This part of the book confused the heck out of me.Is Kolar saying that when the 911 call was made-he did not know JB was downstairs dead and really believed she was kidnapped,but when he found her at 11 he knew it was someone in the house & just went along with the deception?

 

[UKGuy]

also:

page 449-450:

Under those circumstances, I had to wonder whether John Ramsey was aware of the events surrounding the death of his daughter at the time he made this statement to Stewart Long*. The changing story line he revealed over the history of his statements led me to believe that it was only later that he became involved in the web of deception that became apparent after the discovery of his daughter's body.

*finding jonbenet's body @ 11 am

redheadedgal,
If JR was ignorant how come his fibers are on JonBenet's crotch? How did he know to head down to the wine-cellar, and not upstairs?

Is JR not to be heard in the lead up to the 911 call talking to Burke?

I reckon all three R's are complicit in a coverup.

I've not read Kolars' book so cannot comment, but it seems a strange theory given the evidence.


.

 

[SyraKelly]

redheadedgal,
If JR was ignorant how come his fibers are on JonBenet's crotch? How did he know to head down to the wine-cellar, and not upstairs?

Is JR not to be heard in the lead up to the 911 call talking to Burke?

I reckon all three R's are complicit in a coverup.

I've not read Kolars' book so cannot comment, but it seems a strange theory given the evidence.


.

This is where I think his fibers where transfered from one of his shirts Pasty used to wipe her down with?Maybe he was telling the truth when he said-his fibers should not be there?IDK-I am all confused!!
Also it goes to Pasty's statement from CNN when she said-We believe 2 people are involved-one who knows what happened & the other being the killer told someone!

 

[UKGuy]

This is where I think his fibers where transfered from one of his shirts Pasty used to wipe her down with?Maybe he was telling the truth when he said-his fibers should not be there?IDK-I am all confused!!
Also it goes to Pasty's statement from CNN when she said-We believe 2 people are involved-one who knows what happened & the other being the killer told someone!

SyraKelly,
Yes, although JR's fibers look like a red flag, why would he use his own shirt on such a sensitive region of JonBenet's body, that definitely does not make sense?

It should also mean his shirt must have been destroyed at some point, since as evidence its lethal.

And how did John's shirt get to the basement so quickly, if he was ignorant, it should be lying about somewhere in his bedroom?


.

.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I must say Kolar's thinking on this case mystifies me. On the one hand he does seem to be calling for a Grand Jury to do all these things, but on the other hand he makes it clear that, according to his theory, neither Burke nor John could be prosecuted. So, if he's right, there would be no basis for a Grand Jury at all, since a Grand Jury is called to determine whether someone should be indicted, NOT simply to investigate what happened and what didn't happen. If we take Kolar seriously, both Burke and John are home free and no Grand Jury could ever be called.

I understand what you're saying. I could be wrong, but like Kolar said, he doesn't want GJ to perform the 'fishing expedition'. However, sometimes GJ duties is to do exectly that: 'fishing expedition'...especially, in regards of Burke. Kolar is VERY carefull to not reveal important facts and LE strategy. I'm sure it was done not only for the sake of potential lawsuit against him...IMO, his book is the bait for the big fish...

 

[redheadedgal]

Hey Red-This part of the book confused the heck out of me.Is Kolar saying that when the 911 call was made-he did not know JB was downstairs dead and really believed she was kidnapped,but when he found her at 11 he knew it was someone in the house & just went along with the deception?

the way i read it was yes he had no knowledge of what happened that night but sometime after she was found he clued/got clued in... unless kolar clarifies what "later" is, we can only speculate...

 

[redheadedgal]

And how did John's shirt get to the basement so quickly, if he was ignorant, it should be lying about somewhere in his bedroom?

he threw it down the laundry chute to not leave it lying in his bedroom?

 

[Bonnette]

Kolar's language is a little open-ended, and I'm not sure that he is actually calling for another Grand Jury. He states that the evidence that already exists is sufficient to indicate what happened (if the DA would allow it to speak); and where it is not, he wants the DA to go after the material (medical and phone records, especially). He doesn't state that a conviction for murder would be possible, only that the case could be brought to resolution - i.e., we could find out what happened, period. He seems to suggest that public pressure, combined with a willing DA, could reopen the files and let the chips fall where they may. At least, that's my interpretation of his very carefully worded last chapter and epilogue.

 

[UKGuy]

he threw it down the laundry chute to not leave it lying in his bedroom?

redheadedgal,
Its possible, if its the case, I'll bet he had some words for whomever used it.



.

 

[UKGuy]

Kolar's language is a little open-ended, and I'm not sure that he is actually calling for another Grand Jury. He states that the evidence that already exists is sufficient to indicate what happened (if the DA would allow it to speak); and where it is not, he wants the DA to go after the material (medical and phone records, especially). He doesn't state that a conviction for murder would be possible, only that the case could be brought to resolution - i.e., we could find out what happened, period. He seems to suggest that public pressure, combined with a willing DA, could reopen the files and let the chips fall where they may. At least, that's my interpretation of his very carefully worded last chapter and epilogue.

Bonnette,
Thats how it sounds. No certainty of convictions, but the evidence should make it clear who was involved.

Kolar seems to be saying, we know it was not an intruder, so lets see all evidence we have on the R's?


.

 

[Bonnette]

docg, I'm hampered by my lack of legal expertise, but your points make sense - regardless of who the perp is, no one but JR could be prosecuted for anything. Does Lacy's unprecedented and outrageous "exoneration" of the Ramseys prohibit his prosecution, i.e. does her letter carry any legal weight? A murder charge strikes me as unlikely, since a prior Grand Jury failed to indict him. But I would love to be wrong!

 

[dodie20]

I hate to spoil the read of Kolar's book for people who didn't read this book yet...but as I read some posts on this and other threads in which posters have 'interpreted' Kolar's 'Theory of Prosecution' as the way of solving JBR case by prosecuting John Ramsey - I decided to go against my rules. Please take your time and read this carefully.

In December 2001, 'Kane indicated that, despite the numerous books and media stories that had cover the investigation, the public was not fully aware of the real facts of the case. There remains "dozens of secrets and what the public thinks is fact is simply not the fact"' (page 180).

'I subsequently prepared a document that outlined a theoretical concept of the events that had taken place in Ramsey house-hold on the night of December 25, 1996, and the potential criminal charges that I believed were supported by the evidence in the case'. (page 420)

''The Theory of Prosecution that I sent to Stan Garnet and Mark Beckner also included some closing thoughts and observations on the status of the investigation, as well as a suggestion on how the case might be moved forward toward closure. These comments also included references to grand jury.' (page 425)

'I expressed my belief to Garnett and Beckner, that theory of family involvement ...was supported by witness interviews and Ramsey statements, forensic findings, fingerprints, trace evidence, and an identifiable childhood pathology that explained the circumstances leading up to, and surrounding the death of JonBenet......and that there continued to be a course of action to pursue through the assistance of grand jury.....Yet clearly, the death of JonBenet remains an open murder investigation, and while no one is likely to ever be criminally charged with this crime, I expressed the opinion that there are proactive steps that should be taken to bring it to resolution and closure'. (page 428,429)

'Under the current set of legal circumstances, it may very well be that some of the leads I suggested in the case are beyond the reach of law enforcement authorities...What prosecutor, or police chief, would want to expend additional public funds in pursuit of a murder investigation when they know that it will not result in the conviction of the person responsible for the crime?'. (page 441,442)
Kolar, 'Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?', 2012

My understanding and believe:

1. Kolar wants to assemble new Grand Jury to be able to achieve the following:
- 'unseal' Ramsey's medical files;
- present new evidences/theories;
- clear the people who been put 'under Ramsey bus' for no apparent reasons; - take the blame FROM and give the proper acknowledgment TO BPD investigators, especially the ones who left the LE frustrated, burned out and not-appreciated;
- give the Victory to US Justice (not to the power of the money by which this Justice could be bought!);
- and finally, to CLOSE this case.

2. We, as the public, do NOT have the full knowledge of the facts. Therefore, we have no rights to cheer for the 'prosecution' of particular R (especially, based on Kolar book!). We have the rights to speculate, make the theories, discuss available to us evidences, educate ourselves in intelligent discussions, if needed, write petitions to the government authorities...and pray for the new Grand Jury.

JM(strong!)O

This is where I have my biggest problem with BR being responsible. There would have been no need to point at FW, the santa, the housekeeper, etc. and to do so, doesn't really make sense. The only motivation would have been to see somebody charged and sent to prison, and maybe executed. And we're supposed to believe the Rs did this, to protect their son's reputation? I've actually considered that JR wasn't involved until later, but I do believe he would have recognized the handwriting as PR's or BR's. Him hiring his own lawyer, (and so soon), speaks loud and clear. Regardless of who did what, and regardless of what his own role was, he was separating himself from the pact. United front or not, he was protecting himself. So, IMO, he knew.

 

[DeeDee249]

This is where I have my biggest problem with BR being responsible. There would have been no need to point at FW, the santa, the housekeeper, etc. and to do so, doesn't really make sense. The only motivation would have been to see somebody charged and sent to prison, and maybe executed. And we're supposed to believe the Rs did this, to protect their son's reputation? I've actually considered that JR wasn't involved until later, but I do believe he would have recognized the handwriting as PR's or BR's. Him hiring his own lawyer, (and so soon), speaks loud and clear. Regardless of who did what, and regardless of what his own role was, he was separating himself from the pact. United front or not, he was protecting himself. So, IMO, he knew.

Don't you see that WAS their motivation? With someone else convicted of the crime, it took the suspicion away from BR and the rest of the family forever. Hey- it's been done before. I think OJ is still waiting for the "real killer" to be behind bars too.

 

[OpenMind4U]

This is where I have my biggest problem with BR being responsible. There would have been no need to point at FW, the santa, the housekeeper, etc. and to do so, doesn't really make sense. The only motivation would have been to see somebody charged and sent to prison, and maybe executed. And we're supposed to believe the Rs did this, to protect their son's reputation? I've actually considered that JR wasn't involved until later, but I do believe he would have recognized the handwriting as PR's or BR's. Him hiring his own lawyer, (and so soon), speaks loud and clear. Regardless of who did what, and regardless of what his own role was, he was separating himself from the pact. United front or not, he was protecting himself. So, IMO, he knew.

100% agree! JR, PR and BR knew.