IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #1

[Kamille]

Okay so this article states that it was a firefighter who found the bikes on the trail around 4pm. It also says that Elizabeth's purse which contained the cell phone was found "nearby". So we're probably talking a little pink bag that an 8 year old would likely have to hold that phone which her parents obviously bought for her to take with her when she was out. Not sure where we got the info that the purse was found on the other side of the fence toward the highway but I'm thinking maybe not? Maybe it was found near the fence, or maybe on the fence side toward the water?

This really does sound like two young girls out exploring on their bikes who stopped to get off when the Lake was accessible to them. They could have gone around that fence that leads to the waterline and been exploring along the shoreline and that forest area from looking at the picture of the searchers.

Now whether there was an accident and they are eventually found in the lake or whether they met with foul play while doing this is the big question for me.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

ETA: Why did the emergency responders immediately head to the lake when they were called?

MOO

 

[paris_paris]

Why did the emergency responders immediately head to the lake when they were called?

MOO

Maybe they pinged the cell phone right away.

 

[palaminodee]

It bothers me that there is no Amber Alert since they do not know they have been abducted...I wish this applied to missing as well since it is possible it could be an abduction?

 

[Angelonline]

Personally I think our Amber Alert criteria needs to be changed nationwide. It only applies to such a small number of cases the way it is written and there are others that should be using Amber Alerts. When a child is missing every second counts.

 

[liz b.]

Or someone was mistaken about who they saw.

The picture of the girls shows that they are cute but not significantly different from a hundred other girls that age in that area. With school out for the summer, there's kids on bikes all over.

Unless a tipster knows the girls personally, I'd regard a sighting as a "maybe" rather than as a positive.

The girls' grandmother last saw them at 12 :15 p.m. in the area behind the clothing store. A person called the tip line and stated that he or she saw the girls' bicycles laying on the ground by the lake at 12 :27 p.m. This person did not see the girls,just their bikes.

If the girls biked out to the lake area, and it took them maybe 10 minutes or so, then something happened to them almost right away.

I doubt that they went swimming...where are their shoes ?

 

[Shelby2]

Where is Eagle Lake?

 

[Wondergirl]

For any of the many Guests reading the WS Thread, that are not Members at Websleuths, you cannot access the Scanner Link Downstairs, you have to be a Member.

But, you can listen for yourselves here:


http://www.radioreference.com/apps/a...wp&feedId=9086
__________________

 

[otto]

I am thinking that the likelihood of them being abducted from the main road is slim because, if I understand it correctly and from what it appears on Google Maps street view, there is a 6ft or so fence on either side of the trail where the trail can be seen from the highway, so it is actually water --> TALL FENCE --> path --> bikes --> TALL FENCE --> purse --> phone --> WIRE GUARDRAIL --> main road, until you get into the area that is wooded, where there is no fence for about 30 feet, per a local, so that they have access to move water from one lake to the other.

I'm wondering if the purse/phone were thrown over the fence towards the water. That would explain why investigators are interested in water searches. If the water is 4' deep and the youngest is 4' tall, drowning is a very real possibility.

 

[Shelby2]

Personally I think our Amber Alert criteria needs to be changed nationwide. It only applies to such a small number of cases the way it is written and there are others that should be using Amber Alerts. When a child is missing every second counts.

The Amber Alert is a good system, it is designed to be used when there is a description of a car or good info on the perp though it varies state to state.

In a case where the child has gone missing and there is no clue where they are, I agree the word needs to get more. Seems like they are doing a good job here, over 400 volunteers..

 

[Angelonline]

The Amber Alert is a good system, it is designed to be used when there is a description of a car or good info on the perp though it varies state to state.

In a case where the child has gone missing and there is no clue where they are, I agree the word needs to get more. Seems like they are doing a good job here, over 400 volunteers..

I know Shelby, but the bolded part is what I think they need to change or give a at little leeway with. Because in cases like this one where the children are missing near a highway, an Amber Alert would be a good thing. Even if the Amber Alert just gave discretion for local LE to use it when not all criteria are met but they feel it is otherwise warranted. And yes they have a lot of volunteers, but if the girls have already been removed from the area no amount of searching the county is going to help.

All MOO

 

[Anna1964]

Where is Eagle Lake?

It looks to be southeast of Meyer lake on the other side of Highway 380.

 

[Shelby2]

For any of the many Guests reading the WS Thread, that are not Members at Websleuths, you cannot access the Scanner Link Downstairs, you have to be a Member.

But, you can listen for yourselves here:


http://www.radioreference.com/apps/a...wp&feedId=9086
__________________

And for those of you using an iTouch there is a scanner app '5-0 radio free' which will give you access to the radio reference site.

 

[Pensfan]

Does anyone know the water temperatures ?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_before_a_body_floats_after_drowning

If they went in the water. The temperatures play a part in resurfacing time..

BODY FLOAT INFORMATION
This information was complied by members John Sanders, Dr. John Whittington, and Mark Williams of the National Underwater Rescue-Recovery Institute and should only be used for estimating when a body should float.


1. Victims that have drowned in 30-40 degree water will not surface until water warms.
Victims that are 100 feet or deeper may not surface at all due to the combination of pressure and temperature.
VARIABLES THAT AFFECT FLOAT TIME
1. When and What food was last consumed (foods high in carbohydrates: beer, soft drinks, hot dogs, potato chips) produce gases faster.
2. Medications, drugs, or alcohol.
3. Body composition – skinny, muscular, obese. (fat float quicker).
4. Age, weight, and height of victim.
5. Activity at the time of drowning (hunting, fishing, swimming, skiing).
6. Suicidal drowning – self weighting, stacked clothing.
7. Type and layers of clothing worn including footwear (heavier winter clothing of hip boots).
8. Gases produced in the intestinal tract are: methane, hydrogen sulfide, and carbon dioxide. These gases are soluble in water and compressible.
9. Any visible body wounds – previous or after drowning?
10. Type of water: River, Quarry, Lake, Pond, Freshwater, Saltwater?
WATER DAYS TO TEMPERATURE SURFACE
40 degrees 14-20 days
50 degrees 10-14 days
60 degrees 7-10 days
70 degrees 3-7 days
80 degrees 1-2 days
http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/Trailing Water/body_float_info.pdf

 

[otto]

I have thought of this scenario as well. Regarding the purse being throw over the fence towards the highway, a young person would be more likely to do this than an older perp, IMO. If this is an abduction by a young person, then the girls will probably be found rather quickly, because younger perps (ages 12 to 18) are more likely to be disorganized or impulsive. However, the more days that go by without finding these girls, it will be more and more likely that they were abducted by an adult rather than a young person.

ALL JMO

The only source I've been able to find about the purse/phone being tossed over the fence is the facebook site for the missing girls. There is a fence along both sides of the path at the SE tip of Meyers Lake, and we don't know which fence is referenced. The purse/phone could have been tossed over the fence towards the lake. That would suggest to me that the girls tossed them over the fence. If the purse/phone were tossed over the fence towards the main road, that would suggest to me that someone else tossed them

 

[Kamille]

I'm wondering if the purse/phone were thrown over the fence towards the water. That would explain why investigators are interested in water searches. If the water is 4' deep and the youngest is 4' tall, drowning is a very real possibility.

Yes and I'm wondering what kind of current or undertow might there be from the drain pipe that leads under the highway?

MOO

 

[otto]

I do think the vehicles were on the trail. And it appears from the picture that there is a gate in the fence to get access to the water?

I have another question. Does anyone know or remember how quickly they found the girl's bikes on the trail after the police were called at 3pm? From all accounts you wouldn't think they'd be looking that far away at first so I just wondered how they found the bikes.

And is it possible that they met up with another older person or persons on the trail or somewhere else closer to home who convinced them to go down and check out the lake? Is there any indication that the girls have ever travelled down that trail before?

MOO

The grandmother began searching at 2 pm, police were called at 3 pm and the bikes were found at 3:30 pm. That suggests that the parents or grandmother had an idea about what the girls had planned for the afternoon ... that is, they knew right away where to look.

 

[Jules71]

The only source I've been able to find about the purse/phone being tossed over the fence is the facebook site for the missing girls. There is a fence along both sides of the path at the SE tip of Meyers Lake, and we don't know which fence is referenced. The purse/phone could have been tossed over the fence towards the lake. That would suggest to me that the girls tossed them over the fence. If the purse/phone were tossed over the fence towards the main road, that would suggest to me that someone else tossed them

Where on the FB page does it mention the purse/phone? I think you might be right that it was thrown over the fence on the lake side. I think of kids climbing over a fence and if you are carrying something you might throw it over the fence and then climb over.

It is said the drain pipe has a screen so fish from the river don't enter the lake.

 

[Considering]

Elizabeth has siblings. Nice looking family. Lots of pics on Mom's FB.

 

[Jules71]

The grandmother began searching at 2 pm, police were called at 3 pm and the bikes were found at 3:30 pm. That suggests that the parents or grandmother had an idea about what the girls had planned for the afternoon ... that is, they knew right away where to look.

We have heard three accounts of when the bikes were seen/found:

12:27 (a tip called in saying they saw the bikes at the spot at the lake but not the girls) - someone saw this on FB.

3:30 bikes were found (FB?)

4:00 bikes were found (a couple posts up thread)

ETA: "The girls were last seen at about 12:15 p.m. Friday near Lafayette Road riding bikes. Their bicycles were discovered on the southeast corner of Meyers Lake, along with a purse and cell phone belonging to Elizabeth, about 4 hours later."

Read More: http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ev...d32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz20iG6tgNk

 

[otto]

Maybe they pinged the cell phone right away.

I doubt that requests to ping a phone, and the perfect triangulation of the pinging, could have happened in less than 30 minutes. I think its more likely that the parents/grandmother had some concerns that the girls might go to the lake and gave that information to police.