IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #10

[Confusion]

Going to see if I can get through this post without directly or indirectly accusing anybody in particular; much easier said than done lately!

Once upon a time there were 2 little girls who decided to ride their bikes around a lake they weren't supposed to be at. As they were riding on the trail around it, they noticed a family of rabbits in the woods lining the path. Being curious, they dropped their bikes and ran around the surrounding fence to check it out. While they were doing that, a local man rode by on his bike, nearly hitting those they had left lying there. Once they decided they weren't going to catch any of the baby rabbits, they moved their bikes and went to check out the jeddy since they were already stopped anyway.

While the girls were throwing rocks, leaves, or whatever to watch them disappear in the swirling water, a couple of teens ride by on a paddleboat they had "borrowed" from a nearby house. Being bored, they decide to drop off the boat and go back to harrass the girls. They could see that nobody else was on the trail because they'd been in the middle of the lake and could see both ends of the trail. They go over and threaten them, and then take them to their vehicle they'd hidden before taking the boat. They were just planning to scare them, but the family and police showed up too soon. Being afraid of what the girls would say, they just left the area again and took them somewhere else.

End of chapter one because I have no idea what would happen then or where they'd be...

 

[BunnyHop]

i think it might be something along the lines of what katydid is suggesting... they were crushing on some boy, etc... i did the same kinda stuff,lol...

the other idea for me is that this could be kid on kid violence... like 13-14 year old kids... mean bully kids or something. .. idk, it just keeps crossing my mind...

that or a predator or accomplice.

 

[Simp]

I know that, LOL, but where does it say anywhere that when the volunteer firefighter found the bikes, they were leaning against the fence? We only know that they were against the fence when Abben got there.

The sources I can find only mention the bikes being found near the trail by the firefighter, not against a fence.

I have always assumed the firefighter found them against the fence, but that is apparently a misconception on my part.

I guess I had the same misconception. It's been driving me nuts that the person that moved the bikes off the trail didn't speak up. So I guess Abben just said they were against the fence when HE got there. And in all honesty the firefighter could have just picked them up and stood them out of the way innocently.

 

[callyn]

What bothers me, is Mr Carpenter says quite clearly he's seen them there all the time. Who else has seen them there all the time? :waitasec:

It sure makes me wonder why they would be on that particular street all the time. It doesn't seem like a street they would be on unless there was a reason for it, like a person they wanted to see, maybe just ride by a certain house? The fact that Mr C says they always turned around at the end of the street also reinforces to me that it was that block where their interest was.

 

[hollyblue]

From 1st thread:

Custody of the MCM's children:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #1

Video with HC and MCM. MCM certainly had a different demeanor at the beginning.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

 

[BunnyHop]

I am convinced Mr. Carpenter and his wife were familiar with Elizabeth, but not Lyric because he/they were sure it was Elizabeth on her bike although he said he could not identify the bike/tell what color it was because they were going so fast and then the wife added in "but not the other one."

There's kids in my neighborhood that I notice from time to time. If I was asked to identify their bikes, I doubt that I could. They also leave their bikes lying around from time to time.

I used to ride my bike on a bike trail. Some parts are very remote. Sometimes you pass other bikes or walkers. If I was riding and saw 2 bikes, I would think nothing of it and continue on my way. So I understand why TG waited to come forward the next day after hearing the news. Seems perfectly natural to me.
:twocents:

 

[JaimeInLA]

I don't believe that TG moved the bikes. He said he swerved around them, or one of them, but I have not seen anything about him stopping, getting off his bike and moving those two bikes. Only that he had to swerve. It sounds to me like he simply kept going, probably thought the kids that put them down were close by somewhere.

Abben said they were against the fence when he arrived but we don't know how long after they were found that he arrived. It could have been long enough that they were photographed and whatever else needed to be done and LE themselves placed them against the fence.

MOO JMO :moo:

Isn't it possible for both to be true? If the bikes were kind of sloppily leaned against the fence, at a 45-degree angle -- they were "leaning on the fence" and ALSO "in the path" so TG had to swerve around them. It is VERY narrow through there.

 

[smiley]

Katydid23 I thought the same thing about Tammnot telling her mom, oh yes she had been to the lake before. It seems to be that Aunt Tammy jumped in and was the spokesperson from the get go. She seems to know alot. She defended Dan on TV more than once she is the one who said Take me to Meyers Lake. She is very much in the forefront of the whole situation in my opinion.

 

[mahoolin]

It just seems so weird that Grandma was never told this information. How long did Auntie know about Lizzie riding to the lake before?

It seems like Auntie knew it before she took the search over there, otherwise why go there of all places? Was it just a lucky guess?

But when did Auntie find out that Lizzie had ridden to that lake with her friends before? Because as of that moment, she had never shared that important tidbit with Grandma, and it seems like important news, given that the bikes were found there and the girls are still missing.

So she never tells Grandma during the times they are discussing the urgent search for the girls, but then on national tv she corrects her and blurts it out. It just seemed so awkward and odd, imo.

IMHO Grandma could be in major denial.

The girls went missing under her watch, she's raised all those children and looked after her grandchildren and nothing like this has ever happened! She's traumatized, distraught, beside herself with worry and grief - I can see why she would say they hadn't been there - they were told not to.

She's human, and so are those little girls - out having summer fun, hanging around with their favorite cousin - what could be better! Sneaking off for some fun with their neighborhood friends - nobody's going to get hurt - Grandma's just a worrier.... we just won't let her know.

I think auntie could have found out from her dd who might have told, then realized she'd betrayed a secret. Or, could be auntie is one of those types that you're in a room with for 5 min and you're telling them things you swore you'd NEVER tell anyone - know the type? I'm not seeing her as a confidante - she seems to be frivolous with confidential information - children pick up on that too, but if she's a little cooler than grandma about things, maybe so?

 

[nervous_nellie]

when i was in 2nd grade i lived in an apt. building and would play with a little girl that lived down the hall from me.. this was back in the early 70's and the news papers would be hung on the doorknobs of each apt.... me and this girl were pretending to be "paperboys"...lol, i know, silly, but one day just as i was going for one of the papers the door opened and a hand snatched me inside the apt. and my friend followed just instinctively... he locked us in a back room for a few hours and then thank - god he let us go, but he took me out back behind the building and explained to me why i could never tell my parents ... and that no one would ever believe me anyway...

these girls could have just been playing like kids do where they are just so involved with what they are doing and BAM...

 

[Bootsctr]

From 1st thread:

Custody of the MCM's children:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #1

Video with HC and MCM. MCM certainly had a different demeanor at the beginning.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

Thanks and yes very different demeanor. Makes me wonder when the fingerpointing at each other started and when was the missing reward raised to $50,000.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Going to see if I can get through this post without directly or indirectly accusing anybody in particular; much easier said than done lately!

Once upon a time there were 2 little girls who decided to ride their bikes around a lake they weren't supposed to be at. As they were riding on the trail around it, they noticed a family of rabbits in the woods lining the path. Being curious, they dropped their bikes and ran around the surrounding fence to check it out. While they were doing that, a local man rode by on his bike, nearly hitting those they had left lying there. Once they decided they weren't going to catch any of the baby rabbits, they moved their bikes and went to check out the jeddy since they were already stopped anyway.

While the girls were throwing rocks, leaves, or whatever to watch them disappear in the swirling water, a couple of teens ride by on a paddleboat they had "borrowed" from a nearby house. Being bored, they decide to drop off the boat and go back to harrass the girls. They could see that nobody else was on the trail because they'd been in the middle of the lake and could see both ends of the trail. They go over and threaten them, and then take them to their vehicle they'd hidden before taking the boat. They were just planning to scare them, but the family and police showed up too soon. Being afraid of what the girls would say, they just left the area again and took them somewhere else.

End of chapter one because I have no idea what would happen then or where they'd be...

Yes, I'd say this were totally possible, if you ignore the timeline. If you consider that the girls were seen at 12:15, and KNEW they had to be back home by 1:00-ish, there is not enough time to ride to the lake, and have that all happen. I also think TG would have seen/heard them -- they were reportedly total chatterboxes. And I also think it would be hard for the boys to to be seen/heard by a witness. Also -- it's nearly impossible for teens to keep quiet about that kind of stuff. Facebook rumors would circulate, there would be a leak.

I like the creative thinking! I think it's possible, but improbable.

 

[winterrose]

Seems like she's said a few things that haven't be substantiated. :waitasec:

Yep, we should have a section for "TB says". I'm just not getting over what she said about feeling sorry for DM having to go to pretrial Friday when his daughter is missing. I mean, you know, with the breaking of her sister's fingers and all, you'd think the last thing she'd feel is sorry for an abuser. Maybe we should do another section on "What TB says about DM", Just sayin...

 

[callyn]

Isn't it possible for both to be true? If the bikes were kind of sloppily leaned against the fence, at a 45-degree angle -- they were "leaning on the fence" and ALSO "in the path" so TG had to swerve around them. It is VERY narrow through there.

My recollection is that they were lying down on the ground when TG saw them. MOO JMO all that :moo::moo:

 

[TobyWong*]

just jumping in. I still think the girls might've witnessed something going on w/ people who maybe should'nt be together. Maybe they raced around town knowing certain houses where illict activity was known to go on. Or they suspected something going on and were caught.
I don't know. Just trying to rationalize the 2 of them. The timeline. I feel the bikes were planted. if it were a random stalker i don't think they'd take the time to stage the bikes..jmo

 

[epiphany]

From 1st thread:

Custody of the MCM's children:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #1

Video with HC and MCM. MCM certainly had a different demeanor at the beginning.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

Contrast video of Heather on July 13th with her arm around Misty seemingly comforting her with the statement made by Heather and Drew's spokesperson [CC] below on July 23rd--which was after we learned that Misty and Dan's cooperation was better:

A spokesman for the Collins' family, Craig Ceilly, emphasized that Heather and Drew Collins have been "cooperating 300 percent from day one" with investigators as they live through what he called their worst nightmare.

"Anything they can do to help they will do and they are doing willingly. I cannot speak for Dan and Misty," he said. "I don't know what they are doing. I don't have a clue, nor do Heather and Drew. They don't want to know. All of a sudden when the media started looking at their past, it took a turn for the worse."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...elizabeth-collins-paddleboater_n_1694893.html

Early Video of Heather and Misty:

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

 

[Gracelin]

IIRC Today is sweet Elizabeth's birthday :takeabow:

Where ever you are little one many thought and prayers are with you..

 

[JaimeInLA]

when i was in 2nd grade i lived in an apt. building and would play with a little girl that lived down the hall from me.. this was back in the early 70's and the news papers would be hung on the doorknobs of each apt.... me and this girl were pretending to be "paperboys"...lol, i know, silly, but one day just as i was going for one of the papers the door opened and a hand snatched me inside the apt. and my friend followed just instinctively... he locked us in a back room for a few hours and then thank - god he let us go, but he took me out back behind the building and explained to me why i could never tell my parents ... and that no one would ever believe me anyway...

these girls could have just been playing like kids do where they are just so involved with what they are doing and BAM...

So did you tell your parents?!

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Out of curiosity, does the family, especially Heather and Drew, call their daughter Elizabeth or Lizzie? Just wondering.

 

[nervous_nellie]

So did you tell your parents?!

not until about 5 years ago!! is that not crazy or what?

and the thing of it is, my family is all le! but that crazy guy scared me, and i believed him... we moved with in a year...

but what gives me the creeps is that that guy would have to have been watching us thru the peep hole an decided to grab us, etc. i dont know why he took us - maybe he hadnt had the nerve to actually do it before and we were the first...idk. it still freaks me out when i think about it, more than it ever did when it happened...