IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[Considering]

I'm thinking that LE was asking about a potential paddleboater in order to confirm witness testimony.

If one single witness mentioned seeing a paddleboater on the lake that day, I'd sure be interested to find out if the paddleboater existed or not.

For whatever it is worth, I think of a paddleboat as one of those foot pedalled things. A canoe or kayak is just that, a canoe or kayak. I've never heard of a canoe or kayak referred to as a paddleboat.

Me, too.

Me, too.

Me, either.

 

[dovebar]

From the link posted by Marnie http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

It sounds like the girls were skipping rocks or something and was reverted through the bushes. Someone saw them and lured them to a car/van IMO

This is exactly my take on it.

Once in the bushes, it would be easy to use a stun gun on them (or that could have happened even earlier, at the water's edge). Tie one up and cart one away. Come back for the other. Unfortunately, having read a lot this morning about the child *advertiser censored* arrests being made all over the world, I think that children are commodities - either for personal use by pervs, or for sale, and then for selling of the photos.

 

[otto]

First I wanted to comment on this photo. If you figure that the girls bikes were found about where the left front of the police cruiser is, and the purse was found right behind where the rower is: that would be approx. 20'.

I cannot find where I read about the dogs tracking the scent but I do have this:

BROUSSEAU: I just wanted to say one more thing, you know, about those bloodhounds that were brought in by the FBI. They did one at a time. One for Elizabeth and one for Lyric. And I was explain to you, so the bikes were found right where those -- the rocky area is, where they`re guessing the girls may have entered the lake at.

But I was there, I watched the bloodhounds continue on into this dense forest area, which is about 400 yards. I watched them go into that area and they positively identified both girls were at that location.

GRACE: Right, at the edge of the water.

BROUSSEAU: And --

GRACE: Go ahead.

BROUSSEAU: Yes, not, you know, not at the -- just at the edge of the water. If you continue on down the bike trail east, there is about approximately 400 acres of forest, dense forest to the left side, and that is where the dogs continued on to and picked up the girls` scent. And that`s when they stopped and brought the dog back and they did the next dog.

The next dog positively identified the next girl`s person to be in that forest. And that`s kind of where I believe it went cold for them. The dogs couldn`t pick up anymore scent. I`m not saying for sure that they couldn`t pick up more scent and go on further, but that is where the investigators stopped, brought the dogs back, told us that, yes, the dogs positively identified the girls to go past the site where the bikes were dropped and farther on into the forest.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

I know this is just Tammy's word, but I know I read it somewhere or it was in a press briefing. I have TONS of links, but as you well know, if you don't copy and paste info when it's first released, articles are upgraded and edited.

I'll look at the press releases later.

Thank you! I think the "400 yards" cannot be accurate. I just checked google earth for 400 yards east of the gate and it seems to be in someone's backyard, 400 yards west of the gate is along the water edge. Reading between the lines, I think maybe Brousseau is saying that the dogs tracked 400 feet to the east, which is pretty much to the location of Maiden Lane.

So it sounds like the girls went through the gate, walked along the fence until they got to the forested area beside Maiden Lane and then the dogs lost their scent ... so that seems like the location where they entered a vehicle and disappeared.

 

[CoeTrawk]

There's probably a "burn ban" right now since it's been so dry. People have a tendence to forget, though. I'm sure LE would be called but as busy as they've been, I wonder if they've had time to investigate or if they've just reminded people that no burning is not allowed? I'm not meaning a grass fire/wild fire, of course. Just someone burning.

There IS a burn ban here in Black Hawk County (and other surrounding counties) and has been for over a month. Friend of mine who lives in the boondocks of Black Hawk County had a fire going and the sheriff was in his driveway in less than ten minutes.

 

[katydid23]

I wonder if LE ever found the boy that Aunt T. said was fishing there that day. She said he told her he had been there for awhile that day. I wonder where he was and what he saw, if anything.

 

[cindysue]

There Might have been more area to walk on outside the gate, because of the drought water levels are much lower this year

 

[auntiejoe]

Look at this video. Shows children riding their bikes along the lake.

http://link.brightcove.com/services...MyKlONmTgZlSWYHG6kdeuxxHo&bctid=1736637434001

 

[MNDad]

i think the reason of using a colloquial term/phrase is because they are talking to and requesting info from the local population...jmo

I am I'm MN and language here is similar to IA. These little floats with pedals are always called pAddle boats. They would use this term because that is what they have called them their entire life.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Look at this video. Shows children riding their bikes along the lake.

http://link.brightcove.com/services...MyKlONmTgZlSWYHG6kdeuxxHo&bctid=1736637434001

Hopefully all the search team guides are like this guy. He points out how important it is to stay in a line so they don't have spots missed.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I recall using a pedal boat as a child ... it seemed to go very slow, be a lot of work and it sat very high in the water - meaning there was nothing subtle or elegant about it. It seems like a clumsy water craft, like a very high profile water craft to use when abducting two girls.

My personal theory is that a paddle boat had nothing to do with the disappearance of Elizabeth and Lyric.

My theory is that one witness and one witness only mentioned seeing a paddle boat on the lake that day.

If I'm correct, I'd love to know who that one person is (I have no idea).

If one person was the only person to mention seeing such a thing, I think that would make LE very, very interested. Could be a confabulation (witness did see a paddle boat but not on 13 July).

Or it could be a deliberate misdirection.

That last possibility is why LE would be so interested.

 

[Thinkzerz]

My personal theory is that a paddle boat had nothing to do with the disappearance of Elizabeth and Lyric.

My theory is that one witness and one witness only mentioned seeing a paddle boat on the lake that day.

If I'm correct, I'd love to know who that one person is (I have no idea).

If one person was the only person to mention seeing such a thing, I think that would make LE very, very interested. Could be a confabulation (witness did see a paddle boat but not on 13 July).

Or it could be a deliberate misdirection.

That last possibility is why LE would be so interested.

I don't believe it now either.Not with the scent going that distance through the bushes. JMO

 

[hollyblue]

Where's Ollipop?

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thanks ... I understand that it's probably a colloquial term ... but why would the FBI use a colloquial term? Maybe they would. We have pedal boats here, and lots of paddlers. Maybe, having more involvement with non-motor water sports makes me more inclined to use the terms of pedal and paddle differently than police and FBI. It sure would be helpful if there was another case update so someone could ask police whether the paddle boat is a pedal boat and whether the runner is a cyclist.

The same reason why LE wouldn't address the public using English terms if the potential witnesses were primarily Spanish speakers. They have to use the language the potential witnesses will understand.

If the FBI showed a picture of a paddle boat (meaning with pedals) to a group of Iowa LE officers and asked them "what would you call this thing?" I am quite certain all the native Iowans would say "Paddle boat."

If someone asked about a pedal boat, it would take me a long minute to figure out what on earth they meant.

However, I have never heard an Iowan call a runner a bicyclist or a bicyclist a runner. We have RAGBRAI and we know our middle aged, not real buff bicyclists well. We love them and we bake lots of homemade goodies for them as they roll their painful but determined way across the state.

The other Iowa term for a runner is a jogger. I think Sandy Breault isn't from here because most Iowans would say jogger.

 

[Sunlight]

Why on earth would LE not let the dogs keep going? They had to of done that. So the girls did leave this water edge area.

Ding, ding, da-ding. Is that Maiden Lane area TB is referring to?

 

[MNDad]

From the link posted by Marnie http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/19/ng.01.html

It sounds like the girls were skipping rocks or something and was reverted through the bushes. Someone saw them and lured them to a car/van IMO

For a long time I was right along with everyone on the complicated theories involving family or the staging of the bikes, but I have posted this same thing you just did several times over the last few days. I am convinced that your theory is correct and the simplest explanations are also the most common sense explanations. We have a trail that goes along the Missisippi river and there are places where it comes closer to the river. In those clearings are mini beaches made by kids trampling down the vegetation and you will find beer bottles and other trash. When I go with my kids, my 10 year old daughter likes to go there and pick up cool rocks. It is a natural attraction and I am sure the girls crossed through the gate and came across a .

 

[katydid23]

My personal theory is that a paddle boat had nothing to do with the disappearance of Elizabeth and Lyric.

My theory is that one witness and one witness only mentioned seeing a paddle boat on the lake that day.

If I'm correct, I'd love to know who that one person is (I have no idea).

If one person was the only person to mention seeing such a thing, I think that would make LE very, very interested. Could be a confabulation (witness did see a paddle boat but not on 13 July).

Or it could be a deliberate misdirection.

That last possibility is why LE would be so interested.

What I read on FB was that one of the homeowners on the lake told LE that on the day the girls went missing, they found that their paddleboat appeared to have been used that day, but not by them. They think someone borrowed it w/out permission. [ that info was deleted.]

So I imagine that LE was very very curious about who might have 'borrowed' the boat and why.

 

[Considering]

My son is a rower, and all the other boats are paddle boats ... that's how people involved with non-motor water sports and rowing refer to canoes and kayaks.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/olympics/longterm/cankayak/canhist.htm

This is a very interesting conversation to me! I spent most of my growing up years in southern CA and since then I have lived in various places in the southeastern U.S. and today is the first time I have EVER heard of a "pedalboat"! I've been on many "paddleboats" over the years (lets just say several years). I searched both words separately on google and the same pictures came up for both words (and all but one had 4-5 seats, BYW). If I asked someone around where I presently live if they knew where I could rent a pedalboat, I think I would get a strange look in return. That leads me to ponder the request from the person from the FBI -- what does a "paddleboat" mean to that person? And what about people that were at the lake that day? If you were at the lake on a canoe or kayak and, like me, only knew a "pedalboat/paddleboat" as a "paddleboat," you likely would not respond to the request from the FBI because you were in a canoe/kayak, not a paddleboat (as you knew it). That's fine if the FBI has the same definition in mind, but if the FBI person meant "paddleboat" (as canoe/kayak) as they are also called (by otto, for example), it's possible that someone on that type of watercraft did not respond to the FBI's request because they did not understand. I didn't explain that very well, but maybe everyone understands what I'm saying.

 

[otto]

Here's the distance from the gate to 400 feet to the east.

 

[nikb]

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, Mr. Carpenter told "The Des Moines Register" that he was out watering his yard. He says it was sometime between noon and 3:00 o`clock when he saw the girls ride by.

Now, he`s a little closer to the lake. He`s about two blocks or so away from Meyers Lake. He says at the time, he didn`t think anything of it.


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

Catching up... thanks for this! I didn't remember it being anywhere besides some of the early confusing reports from Aunt T. This does sound credible. Wish the time frame was narrower.

 

[GrainneDhu]

There's probably a "burn ban" right now since it's been so dry. People have a tendence to forget, though. I'm sure LE would be called but as busy as they've been, I wonder if they've had time to investigate or if they've just reminded people that no burning is not allowed? I'm not meaning a grass fire/wild fire, of course. Just someone burning.

We don't have a burn ban here (I'm near I-80 and east of Des Moines). Could well be one up by Waterloo/Cedar Falls.

Officials hate to call for burn bans because it's a hardship for rural residents, who burn their own trash. Burn bans are usually called for spring or fall, when there's more likely to be a lot of wind.

During the summer, even a dry summer, there are less likely to be burn bans. Rural residents rely on spotting and reporting columns of smoke, which are very promptly investigated.

I've never heard of an Iowa sheriff's department blowing off a report of a smoke column. Never. There is no way for a sheriff's department to get busy enough to blow off a possible fire report. It's that important.

The situation in towns may be different. I don't know.