IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[otto]

IDK Otto...I'm an unlight firecracker ready to explode with possibilities.

I have a couple ideas though...the perp is someone (s) known to at least one of them. Tells one, meet me by the drainage pipe at Myers Lake. Get there, takes them through the woods. The spot where the purse is found may have been the first point of them realizing something was wrong...maybe one of the girls changed their mind and wanted to go back...struggle happens but by then they're out of anybody's sight. They get thrown in the car (parked on Maiden Lane) and they drive off.

Two... They see the open gate, stop to go in to check it out (she takes her purse with her)...There's someone(s) already hanging/hiding out in that area, maybe doing something there not supposed to, snatch the girls and drag them through the woods (drops purse) put them in the car, drive off. With this possibility I don't think there was someone lying in wait for the perfect target. It doesn't sound like this would be an ideal target spot considering how less traveled it is (by kids alone anyway). I think in this scenario it would have been a crime of convenience (i hate to use that term).

I think we need another map showing the gate and possible locations for parking a car ... I'll see what i can put together.

 

[voxrock2000]

I wish we had something new to hash over. It's so frustrating how quiet LE, msm and other sources are. I know they have not much to share but we as the public who most have children of our own, I think deserves to know something. Even if it's just to know they are still working on the case.

The quieter LE is the closer they are to breaking this case imo. With the amount of evidence gathering they have done they are in a position to watch their poi and wait for them to slip up. Trust me, they know who to look at at this point. I bet the poi is looking over their shoulder like there is no tomorrow. Nothing like letting a guilty conscience stew.

IMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

Does anyone know if there are cases where a perp using the exact same vehicle to abduct multiple people?

I'm curious because we see reports of white vans or green cars......I would think that someone who can take 2 children and not be caught would be smart enough to know NOT to use the same vehicle. I wonder if ppl are barking up the wrong tree??

Ted Bundy

 

[nikb]

I didn't claim it so I'm not looking for it. I'm going with TG's statement.

I've asked those who claimed it to provide a link but so far nothing.

I'm not saying he DIDN'T say it...I'd just like confirmation (even if it is only msm).

:dunno:

I'm still trying to find this link. I do remember seeing that about the bikes, so unless they've updated the story hopefully I can find it.

In the meantime I think I found the transcript of the show where a bunch of the changes to the stories started happening. Particularly the 20' for the purse and cell: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html. Sheesh I just realized I've even linked to this page before and missed a ton of stuff. Now of course I have to try and dig for the original stories to make sure it's a change and not a fuzzy brain.

Please note that I'm not saying this is reliable but since it's CNN I think it counts as MSM. I can't quite tell if the changes (if they are changes) came from family, the reporter, or even other MSM- (probably some combo. This transcript has the 20' for the "bag" insead of the original 10' that some of us remember, and it shows the change from "Elizabeth's purse" to "the bags" implying both girls had some sort of purse or bag or something.

A few quotes I found interesting from the transcript. My comments are in brackets to help separate from the transcript quotes.

[On July 16th a lot of the same questions we have now were coming up from JVM who I've never watched but she apparently does a show similar to Nancy Grace's?):

I also have questions about how were the bikes left? Were they on a kickstand? Did they look like they were left there deliberately, or were they scattered on the ground?

And also about one of the bags -- the bag that little Elizabeth had, being 20 feet away. Does the other child have a cell phone, too? Did she leave with a bag? There are so many unanswered questions.​

[Below is the closest thing I've found to an answer, obviously second or third hand info unfortunately:]

KERA MASHEK, REPORTER, KWWL: We have been told that the bikes were laying very neatly, just like any child that might get off their bike and go for a walk. They were just sitting right there along the lake side like any other ordinary day, nothing really awry with that. And the purse was also just kind of sat down -- not like it was thrown around or that they would, you know, been involved in a struggle of any kind.​

The girls` grandmother was the last to see these two girls, ages 8 and 10, Friday when they left on their bikes. That`s what kids do. That`s what kids do in the summertime. And they were smart enough to go together, the buddy system.

She says they take this trip all the time. They`ve taken it thousands of times, she said, with no problem. So far investigators are totally baffled and perplexed by their disappearance.​

[BBM... what?!? I definitely had not seen this before. I don't know exaxctly what she meant by "this trip" though.]

MORRISSEY: I think that my daughter, you know, I can speak for my daughter, that yes, she might want to get into that lake.

RUSSO: But we feel they would have took their shoes off, their flip- flops.​

[eww... again I know this may be my own personal gross-out thing but really? A kid would want to get into a lake with a bunch of leeches? Maybe out of desperation but I don't think so for fun. MOO and all. ]

 

[SapphireSteel]

But Lyric has an older brother. Why would dad just have one of his kids taken to safety? And why was Lizzie taken?

Lizzie is the "odd one out" in this scenario.

Find out why she was taken, you find the girls.

:moo:

 

[katydid23]

:gthanks: katydid23!
I knew I wasn't imagining that Grandma had already been to the lake. :moo:

YUP. Grandma listed Lake Meyers in her first list of areas searched. But I don't think she went onto the bike trail. She said ' down by Meyers Lake.' So she probably drove into the prking lot and around the area. But it was probably about 12:45ish that she was there, so she was amazingly close by when this happened, imo.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Okay ... let's run with that. Let's suppose that a perp had first contact with the girls on the double fenced path next to the gate (at the drainage pipe) ... what happens next?

I think the perp was on the trail, going in the opposite direction to the girls and leaving enough room on one side (probably the lake side) of the trail to make a bicyclist think there was plenty of room to pass.

When the girl in the lead tried to pass, the perp stepped over, grabbed her by the arm or hair, gave a quick pull sideways and had her off the bicycle in less than a second (have seen this done many times and done it a few times myself as a child).

I think the perp was carrying a weapon, probably a knife or box cutter. Originally I thought an ice pick was a possibility but on reflection, I think the perp used a weapon that was easily concealed in a pocket.

With a firm grip on one girl and threatening her with a weapon, the other girl was instantly compliant, too scared to run for fear her cousin would be injured or killed.

The perp had Elizabeth toss her purse over the fence, for fear she had a cell phone.

Then the perp marched them to the end of the fenced area, cut back through the woods til they reached a vehicle hidden on Maiden Lane.

 

[lishac23]

I think we need another map showing the gate and possible locations for parking a car ... I'll see what i can put together.

Is it possible to walk along the fence (lake side) from the open gate to the Maiden Lane trail?

 

[Sunlight]

The only thing that could be "proven" is that there are two individuals on a video (dated???)...and two bikes and a purse were found on the trail at the lake....everything else is something somebody "said" to LE or the media. LE's relative silence and relative non-visibility speaks volumes...but what??? MOO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Is it possible to walk along the fence (lake side) from the open gate to the Maiden Lane trail?

I believe there are holes in the fence.

 

[RNER]

He tells them to leave the bikes there and go thru the opening where it is unlatched and they do he then put the girls in the vehicle and tosses the purse over the fence

Agree with this, except...why toss the purse over the fence? The bikes are there already and the perp already has the girls. Maybe the purse was originally near or on the bikes and tossed over the fence by the perp to get them to go towards a certain location (to retrieve it) and make it easier to abduct them. Or maybe the girls were on the lake side of the fence with the purse and were approached or lured away or maybe they just forgot it before being abducted.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm open to the bikes being staged too, but ONLY if the perp is local. If it is a random sex offender who just got off the freeway - he has no reason to stage the bikes. He would either take them or leave them where he took the girls. However, if a local came out of his house, lured the girls inside, and then subdued them is the perp -- he HAD TO stage the bikes -- to get them off of his driveway!!

The perp IMHOO is local because he/she knew the girls rode to that lake. As someone suggested probably behind Grandm's back. But someone knew they rode there. Which is why I question Mr. bikerider and construction man and fishing boy. Did they even see the girls that day?

 

[CHERIE.T]

maybe the girls borrowed the boat

I vote no for right now....
Only because the girls knew Grandma wanted them back at her house at a certain time. :moo:

 

[Copper]

KERA MASHEK, REPORTER, KWWL: We have been told that the bikes were laying very neatly, just like any child that might get off their bike and go for a walk. They were just sitting right there along the lake side like any other ordinary day, nothing really awry with that. And the purse was also just kind of sat down -- not like it was thrown around or that they would, you know, been involved in a struggle of any kind.

^ This. Bolding is my own, by the way.

Alright, I can see it happening at the gate. Lets say... one of the girls with the purse is on the water, definitely. The other is either already on the trail or is lured back to the trail by the perp(s). I think it has to be one and not both. If its both girls are already back on or lured back to the trail, I don't think they'd leave the purse behind. But if one of the girls was in trouble, yeah, the purse would just sit there where it was set down.

 

[Eileen730]

The part about the purse doesn't work. They could go through the fence and then walk towards the treed area around Maiden Lane, but the purse had to be left beside the fence at the time the girls would have been abducted from the gate area.

The girls could have been abducted at the gate and forced to walk to Maiden Lane, or the girls could have been abducted on their way to the park and then it would only take a few minutes to drive to Maiden Lane, leave the bikes by the gate, and drive away.

The dog tracking information would be the same whether the girls were abducted on the trail or their bikes were placed there by someone parked on Maiden Lane.

Ok then they got off their bikes went to see whatever the guy at the fence had (a dog perhaps) he tells them to come on the other side of the fence to pet the puppy she leaves her purse and they run over to that other side!

 

[SapphireSteel]

The perp IMHOO is local because he/she knew the girls rode to that lake. As someone suggested probably behind Grandm's back. But someone knew they rode there. Which is why I question Mr. bikerider and construction man and fishing boy. Did they even see the girls that day?

There are no confirmed sightings of the girls at the lake.

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault said the reaction from the dogs Monday night indicated a "strong possibility" the girls had been at the lake, less than a mile from their grandmother's house where they were last reported seen Friday. However, Breault said because there were no confirmed sightings at the lake, authorities couldn't be certain.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_106642f8-d077-11e1-a859-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[cindersoot]

The quieter LE is the closer they are to breaking this case imo. With the amount of evidence gathering they have done they are in a position to watch their poi and wait for them to slip up. Trust me, they know who to look at at this point. I bet the poi is looking over their shoulder like there is no tomorrow. Nothing like letting a guilty conscience stew.

IMO

Oh I do hope you are right.lease:

 

[otto]

One way for the girls to travel from the gate to Maiden Lane and the bikes to travel from Maiden Lane to the gate:

 

[CHERIE.T]

The dogs did not go to the lake.

SPELLMAN: That`s right, Nancy, out of the girls` shoes. Family members were lined up so that the dogs could eliminate their scent. They then followed the scent from where the girls` bikes were found. And we know that the dogs went not too far, but into a wooded area at the end, the terminus, of this bike path. And that`s as far as we know that the dogs got...Now the scent dogs are telling me that`s not what happened, they did not go toward the lake, and the grandmother and the mother are telling me these girls are not going to take their clothes off and jump in naked, and they`re not going to go in and come home dripping wet. So to them their voluntary entrance into that lake is, in my mind, ruled out.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

The person who said they went to the lake was MCM.

Scent dogs following the girls' trail led searchers around the lake and stopped at the water's edge, according to Lyric's mother, Misty Cook-Morrissey.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/up...cle_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

excellent find SS:rocker:

 

[cindersoot]

One way for the girls to travel from the gate to Maiden Lane and the bikes to travel from Maiden Lane to the gate:

I think that is a HUGE possibility.