IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

[MNDad]

I've noticed that most of the posts here dont acknowledges a key word in the FBI stating that they think they are alive and are not concerned with the passage of time.

"We believe these girls are alive, and we are not discouraged by the passage of time since their disappearance," Breault said.

The key word is "since" as in "since their disappearance". This means the time that has passed up until that statement. It does not say that they are not concerned with the passage of more time. If they were not concerned with the passage of more time than I would absolutely agree with people that the FBI knows something, because that is a tough claim to make.

This new statemt that was edited out and now back in a different article does make me think they are speaking to someone specifically, they know who they are speaking to and they are telling them that its not too late to have a change of heart.

I am very confused now. Not that I wasn't before.

 

[Ollipop]

Why do they always have such big happy smiles in these pictures?

I've defended this family all along, to some degree. But I worry that we want to have our cake and eat it, too. On the one hand, some feel the family should be seen more, be more visible. On the other, when they are seen, they are critiqued over their attire, their demeanor, and their comments.

We can all wish that they would look the way we think we would look. We can all think they should be sobbing uncontrollably 24/7, or at least be ever-solemn. But that simply isn't how this clan operates, apparently. It hasn't served them well in the court of public opinion, locally or otherwise, that cannot be disputed.

I'm beginning to wonder if the media isn't feeding off that fact. Is this really the pic that best describes the emotion at the vigil?

 

[hollyblue]

Just wondering what family members and whose friends weren't fully cooperating with the FBI? Per Berault in the 7/21 presser.

 

[Confusion]

Just wondering what family members and whose friends weren't fully cooperating with the FBI? Per Berault in the 7/21 presser.

That was right after they had consulted an attorney who told them not to speak to LE anymore or take any more polygraphs. They said they were getting all the cooperation they needed once Misty took the 2nd polygraph.

 

[Dr. Know?]

The only thing I can remember from the article was MCM agreed to take another poly after the attorney told them not too & Dan had rescheduled for the next day? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I thought the article said.

 

[AmarilloByAM]

I'm with Otto on this. I suspect that perp could have grabbed Lizzy by the wrist while pulling her along and she dropped the purse and perp didn't even notice which is why it is on lake side of fence in weeds.

And I am a third to this nomination of theories.

 

[artzypantz]

Still catching up today but wanted to post this right away. Cached page of kcrg's new article:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...zabeth--Lyric-Four-Weeks-Later-165745756.html

View attachment 25488

Thanks Jules71 !

This is the latest news article, dated August 6th, i have seen in my area 2 hours north of Des Moines; (But i have been working alot and not digging for news information)

http://www.messengernews.net/page/c...th-tips-on-missing-girls.html?isap=1&nav=5075

Iowa police flooded with tips on missing girls
August 6, 2012
Associated Press
Save |
EVANSDALE — The high-profile case of two missing Iowa cousins inspired a flood of tips to law enforcement while the girls remain unaccounted for.

The Des Moines Register reports law enforcement agencies encourage the tips because they could prove valuable, but many of the tips received so far have been vague. Ten-year-old Lyric Cook and 9-year-old Elizabeth Collins have been missing since July 13. They were last seen riding their bikes in Evansdale.

Cedar Rapids Sgt. Christy Hamblin says some of the tips seem frivolous if they lack detail because there little for officers to follow up on.

After the FBI asked for tips about a man driving a white van, Cedar Rapids police were receiving more than 40 tips a day about white vans in someone's neighborhood.

Hoping they release something on the case to the public that will help someone come forward or create a break in the case and find the girls!
I think the Hidden Lake (IIRC) and cornfield & other woodsy area others have been talking about truely needs to be searched and wondering how the public can come together and make that happen? I live 2 hours north of Des Moines and work in Des Moines and could spend a saturday & sunday helping search......Anyone Know? OR do you think they are not doing any searches like this because they believe the girls are still alive?
MOO
ArtzyPantz

 

[artzypantz]

And I am a third to this nomination of theories.

I'm with Otto on this. I suspect that perp could have grabbed Lizzy by the wrist while pulling her along and she dropped the purse and perp didn't even notice which is why it is on lake side of fence in weeds.

I completely agree on this also! This makes the most sense to my scrambled brain! Out of all the speculations and theories posted I was completely brain scrambled and dont know why this didnt come to my mind before! Thanks for posting on this!
MOO
ArtzyPantz

 

[artzypantz]

Could have very well been lured. Just thinking at some point it changes from lure to grab. On that side of the fence it is hard to run and in that situation might be hard to think straight. Of course we don't know but it could explain the purse location. A toss of the purse from the other side of the 6-8' fence might have to be at a trajectory that lands the purse in the water. The unliklihood of clearing a fence and then drop makes me feel Elisabeth was on that side.

I AGREE! the fence is 8 foot high.....THATS VERY HIGH!! Thanks for posting!
MOO
ArtzyPantz

 

[artzypantz]

I dont see a timeline listed in the 'Missing' "Timeline & Media Links" Thread for Elizabeth and Lyric.

Does anyone have a link to a timeline of events that day handy? lease: I dont have alot of time to search, and their are ALOT of threads with ALOT of posts here for Elizabeth and Lyrics case! I appreciate if anyone can help with a link!
Thank you!
ArtzyPantz

 

[GrainneDhu]

I dont see a timeline listed in the 'Missing' "Timeline & Media Links" Thread for Elizabeth and Lyric.

Does anyone have a link to a timeline of events that day handy? lease: I dont have alot of time to search, and their are ALOT of threads with ALOT of posts here for Elizabeth and Lyrics case! I appreciate if anyone can help with a link!
Thank you!
ArtzyPantz

The official timeline from LE is pretty simple:

12:15 pm Girls seen on security cam video behind Cornbelt Auctions riding their bicycles west on Brovan Blvd (which is where Elizabeth Collins lives)

3:58 pm Volunteer firefighter discovers bicycles at Meyer's Lake, near the gate to the drainage pipe; Elizabeth's purse is approximately ten feet from the bicycles and two feet to one side, inside the fencing by the lake

Meyer's Lake is just over a mile from Brovan Blvd

There are a few possible witness sightings, none of which have been confirmed by LE:

12:20 pm Ted Gamerdinger swerves to avoid bicycles in the path around Meyer's Lake; he subsequently rode his bicycle to the gas station, used the restroom and then called his daughter on his cell phone at 12:27 pm, which gave him a way to estimate the time he swerved to miss the bicycles fairly accurately

12:00-3:00 Robert Carpenter remembers seeing the girls at some point while he was watering his lawn

2:30 pm Tammy Brousseau, aunt to both girls, is told by a man at the park that he'd seen the girls riding their bikes at approximately 2:30 pm

3:20 pm TB is told by a "little boy" fishing at the lake that he'd been there a long time and had not seen the girls at all

There are some obvious questions and reservations attached to each of these sightings; since LE has declined to confirm or deny any of them it is difficult to know how much weight to give any particular sighting.

There is an interactive map here:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...tml_c8ef29ca-d077-11e1-8635-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[MNDad]

I dont see a timeline listed in the 'Missing' "Timeline & Media Links" Thread for Elizabeth and Lyric.

Does anyone have a link to a timeline of events that day handy? lease: I dont have alot of time to search, and their are ALOT of threads with ALOT of posts here for Elizabeth and Lyrics case! I appreciate if anyone can help with a link!
Thank you!
ArtzyPantz

There isn't really much too the official timeline, which is so frustrating.

11:30 Grandma says they left for a bike ride from Elizabeth's home. (probably rounded and/or estimated)
12:15 Grandma sees them ride by (probably rounded and/or estimated)
12:11 -12:19 Timestamp on CCTV from across the street and west two parcels from Elizabeth's home. CCTV catches two blurs on bikes. Owner of CCTV states the timestamp is slow by 8 minutes from his cell phone.
12:20 - 12:27 man riding bike on trail says he had to swerve around two bikes on trail. Time is estimated on timestamp of call to daughter at 12:27.
1:00 - 3:00 Man water grass at home near lake says he saw them ride by
2:00 Man tells Aunt that he saw two girls riding by lake area. LE has not acknowledged this person.
3:58 bikes officially found.

That's it. There are other small details like when family started looking and when LE was contacted, but I did this by memory and I didn't have that detail in my head.

 

[GGE]

I've never been a little girl, so I don't know. And it seems like a thousand centuries since I was 10 years old. Anyone have a guess, if the girls were trapped, would the leech infested water been an option for escape? From the before and after pictures, it doesn't look the bottom of the lake drops off drastically. Would wading into the water be an option?

I'm not suggesting that's what happened. But since it probably didn't happen, that might eliminate some scenarios, if the girls were willing to go into the water.

I have a 9 year old daughter, and I was once a 9 year old girl. We live on a property with lake rights, and can walk to the lake in 2 minutes from the front door. Our lake has leeches.

Here's the deal with us - the first time we went down to the lake, we had no clue there were leeches. Maybe others knew, but we hadn't been tipped off. SO, my older boys went in enthusiastically to swim despite others nearby hanging out fishing instead (maybe they didn't feel like getting wet, you know?) It wasn't until they came out that we saw the leeches on their feet/between the toes.

In the next ten years the boys seldom asked about swimming in the lake, but my daughter (who was born after the leech incident and of course had no memory of it) asked just recently why we don't swim in it. I told her there are leeches and she said "so?"

I asked if she knew what leeches WERE and she said "no".

Once I explained, she was disgusted and didn't want to swim anymore.... until a few months later when it was 90 degrees and she had been playing outside and was hot and out of breath, and then she asked if we could go swim in the lake. I again said "the leeches, honey, remember?" and then she remembered our conversation. Once reminded, she didn't want to go in after all.

But when it was so hot and she was so sweaty and she saw the water, having never experienced leeches herself, she was quick to forget and just want to go in.

So for me, with "leeches" firmly in my head, and having seen the movie "Stand By Me" and read the book as a kid and having dealt with removing them from my boys, there was NO WAY I would ever go in the lake.

For my boys, it took ten years for one of them to ask me why it was we don't swim in it - one reminder "leeches between your toes when you were about 6" - and they haven't asked again.

For my daughter, she's had to be told a couple of times and it seems the heat of the day/moment quickly makes her forget, having never seen one or experienced it.

So.. hope that helps somehow!


ETA : Otto you mention it doens't look like the lake drops off dramatically... unfortunately they said at the beginning that there are some 3-4 extremely deep holes in the lake. It was in an article about them having to leave at least 6 feet of water for the FBI sonar equipment to work.. it said that there were still these deep holes that would be over 20 ft deep after the draining they did.

 

[artzypantz]

The official timeline from LE is pretty simple:

12:15 pm Girls seen on security cam video behind Cornbelt Auctions riding their bicycles west on Brovan Blvd (which is where Elizabeth Collins lives)

3:58 pm Volunteer firefighter discovers bicycles at Meyer's Lake, near the gate to the drainage pipe; Elizabeth's purse is approximately ten feet from the bicycles and two feet to one side, inside the fencing by the lake

Meyer's Lake is just over a mile from Brovan Blvd

There are a few possible witness sightings, none of which have been confirmed by LE:

12:20 pm Ted Gamerdinger swerves to avoid bicycles in the path around Meyer's Lake; he subsequently rode his bicycle to the gas station, used the restroom and then called his daughter on his cell phone at 12:27 pm, which gave him a way to estimate the time he swerved to miss the bicycles fairly accurately

12:00-3:00 Robert Carpenter remembers seeing the girls at some point while he was watering his lawn

2:30 pm Tammy Brousseau, aunt to both girls, is told by a man at the park that he'd seen the girls riding their bikes at approximately 2:30 pm

3:20 pm TB is told by a "little boy" fishing at the lake that he'd been there a long time and had not seen the girls at all

There are some obvious questions and reservations attached to each of these sightings; since LE has declined to confirm or deny any of them it is difficult to know how much weight to give any particular sighting.

There is an interactive map here:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...tml_c8ef29ca-d077-11e1-8635-001a4bcf887a.html

There isn't really much too the official timeline, which is so frustrating.

11:30 Grandma says they left for a bike ride from Elizabeth's home. (probably rounded and/or estimated)
12:15 Grandma sees them ride by (probably rounded and/or estimated)
12:11 -12:19 Timestamp on CCTV from across the street and west two parcels from Elizabeth's home. CCTV catches two blurs on bikes. Owner of CCTV states the timestamp is slow by 8 minutes from his cell phone.
12:20 - 12:27 man riding bike on trail says he had to swerve around two bikes on trail. Time is estimated on timestamp of call to daughter at 12:27.
1:00 - 3:00 Man water grass at home near lake says he saw them ride by
2:00 Man tells Aunt that he saw two girls riding by lake area. LE has not acknowledged this person.
3:58 bikes officially found.

That's it. There are other small details like when family started looking and when LE was contacted, but I did this by memory and I didn't have that detail in my head.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR THE HELP!! :clap::tyou:
ArtzyPantz

 

[katydid23]

There isn't really much too the official timeline, which is so frustrating.

11:30 Grandma says they left for a bike ride from Elizabeth's home. (probably rounded and/or estimated)
12:15 Grandma sees them ride by (probably rounded and/or estimated)
12:11 -12:19 Timestamp on CCTV from across the street and west two parcels from Elizabeth's home. CCTV catches two blurs on bikes. Owner of CCTV states the timestamp is slow by 8 minutes from his cell phone.
12:20 - 12:27 man riding bike on trail says he had to swerve around two bikes on trail. Time is estimated on timestamp of call to daughter at 12:27.
1:00 - 3:00 Man water grass at home near lake says he saw them ride by
2:00 Man tells Aunt that he saw two girls riding by lake area. LE has not acknowledged this person.
3:58 bikes officially found.

That's it. There are other small details like when family started looking and when LE was contacted, but I did this by memory and I didn't have that detail in my head.

Good synopsis.
12:30- 1:15 pm
Also, grandma and her 12 yr old grandson went on a car search at 12:30. They drove around town and the parks and the school and even around Lake Meyers and the skate park until 1:15, without finding the girls or finding anyone who had seen them.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Ya know, I've been pondering that edited FBI statement.

I think it was Pensfan who asked sometime back if anyone knew of an abduction where the perp left evidence to mislead the direction of the investigation. I knew there was someone, I just couldn't think of it. After reading that edited statement it came back to me.
Cary Stayner. Cary Stayner dumped evidence away from the bodies to intentionally steer the areas LE would go to initally. He also paid a young boy to lick the envelope he sent to the FBI.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/stayner/index_1.html

Could someone have said to a couple of teens or transients something like "Here's 20 bucks to get rid of these bikes"?

Just a thought.

I have thought for some time that the lake is of no importance.

And it is possible that LE/FBI knows that, too.

My thought was that the perp dumped the bikes there where they would be found in order to divert focus from the actual abduction scene, but I like your suggestion that the perp may have had the help of an unwitting accomplice.

And that would explain some of the comments made by LE..........

Thanks! Interesting take!

 

[Sunlight]

Just a comment about the pic of the "dog" on the shoreline. When I super enlarge it, it looks like the butt of a dog looking into a hole. MOO

 

[Sunlight]

it is interesting wording.. and most likely they took it back for a reason.... like it sounded awkward...

It seems they want anyone to come forward no matter how small or insignificant they may think their information is.

Thanks Jules71 !

This is the latest news article, dated August 6th, i have seen in my area 2 hours north of Des Moines; (But i have been working alot and not digging for news information)

http://www.messengernews.net/page/c...th-tips-on-missing-girls.html?isap=1&nav=5075

Iowa police flooded with tips on missing girls
August 6, 2012
Associated Press
Save |
EVANSDALE — The high-profile case of two missing Iowa cousins inspired a flood of tips to law enforcement while the girls remain unaccounted for.

The Des Moines Register reports law enforcement agencies encourage the tips because they could prove valuable, but many of the tips received so far have been vague. Ten-year-old Lyric Cook and 9-year-old Elizabeth Collins have been missing since July 13. They were last seen riding their bikes in Evansdale.

Cedar Rapids Sgt. Christy Hamblin says some of the tips seem frivolous if they lack detail because there little for officers to follow up on.

After the FBI asked for tips about a man driving a white van, Cedar Rapids police were receiving more than 40 tips a day about white vans in someone's neighborhood.

Hoping they release something on the case to the public that will help someone come forward or create a break in the case and find the girls!
I think the Hidden Lake (IIRC) and cornfield & other woodsy area others have been talking about truely needs to be searched and wondering how the public can come together and make that happen? I live 2 hours north of Des Moines and work in Des Moines and could spend a saturday & sunday helping search......Anyone Know? OR do you think they are not doing any searches like this because they believe the girls are still alive?
MOO
ArtzyPantz

Frivolous? Really? I find those statements rather outrageous. MOO

 

[cindersoot]

So now we can see that they also removed a link to the press release.

This is total speculation and probably doesn't fit at all... BUT... what if someone "helped" the girls in some way... like, what if they "helped" them to run-away or "helped" them to go somewhere that they (or one of them) wanted to go and what if LE doesn't think that person(s) intended for it all to end up like this, with the girls now gone, disappeared, with no trace. I could so develop this train of thought, but might brush too close to being against the rules. So I won't. But, I can see it in my mind!!

So they drained the lake for nothing and it's all a cover up.?

 

[Sunlight]

Good synopsis.
12:30- 1:15 pm
Also, grandma and her 12 yr old grandson went on a car search at 12:30. They drove around town and the parks and the school and even around Lake Meyers and the skate park until 1:15, without finding the girls or finding anyone who had seen them.

Didn't Mr. C say between 12-3 (initially he said 12-1 and wife corrected him)? It makes a difference, because if he did, in fact, see them as early as 12:00, it makes a huge difference in the timeline. Same with gma, who early on said they left after 12, and was corrected, and then went on to say it was 11:30. These are small things that have huge impact on the timeline.

Overall, IMO, the timeline does not work based on what anyone other than the cctv says, and there is even controversy about the 8 minutes....Something is not quite right about all of this. MOO