IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

[FrayedKnot]

Hi, sis! :innocent:

Stop following me! MO-OOO-OOM! She's doooooing it again!

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space> If Elizabeth stopped and talked with people every night, why haven't others come forward with the same information? <snipped>

I think it's entirely likely that others HAVE come forward with that information to LE, just not the media.

 

[callyn]

It doesn't ring true for me that Elizabeth rode her bike by the house every night and that she stopped to talk with people. That's not what we've heard in other reports. I recall that Elizabeth had ridden her bike once to the lake with the neighbor children, but she was typically not allowed to ride to the lake. If Elizabeth stopped and talked with people every night, why haven't others come forward with the same information?

"Carpenter, who lives north of the lake, said he saw the girls between 12 and 3 p.m. while he was outside watering his yard.

"I was out watering my yard between 12 and 3:00 and the girls rode their bikes right by our house," Carpenter said.

...

"I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl," Marcella Carpenter said. "You know, it's hard when you've got a grandchild the same age."

http://www.kwqc.com/story/19044405/witness-said-he-saw-missing-iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance

BBM
I wonder about that too. I just can't imagine that Elizabeth rode down there all the time. I have always thought that perhaps it was another girl and they just thought it was Elizabeth. But I think it's possible that Mr. C saw them that day...possible :fence:

 

[MotherOcean]

Doesn't Mr. C live on a corner? Is it possible he saw the girls pass just as the cctv captured their image? He said they were traveling fast.

ETA: Never mind. I see HollyBlue's post regarding opposite direction.

Mr. C lives near the lake but the cctv was taken by Elizabeth's house. It is a little over a mile away, give or take, depending on the route taken. I do wonder though if LE has any video from outside of the police department/fire department. It is almost directly across the street from Mr. C's house.

 

[rjjensen]

Ok google maps has 1.1 miles from Cornbelt Auctions to Lake Ave.

Shortest route - straight down S Evans.

Time - 4 minutes.

Not sure how to post the damn thing though....

nope 1.2 6 minutes by bike...doesnt include the distance to the location of the bikes behind the lake or stopping http://goo.gl/maps/AGDwA

 

[callyn]

Doesn't Mr. C live on a corner? Is it possible he saw the girls pass just as the cctv captured their image? He said they were traveling fast.

ETA: Never mind. I see HollyBlue's post regarding opposite direction.

Mr. C lives down near the lake, not near where the cctv is located

 

[SapphireSteel]

google maps lists it at 1.2 miles not counting the trail behind the lake...where r you getting 8 minutes? the cctv has it at 12:19 and TG says he saw the bikes at 12:20. not saying your wrong just trying to understand the timeline

I am getting 8 minutes from Mr Pahl who spent a day and a half with the FBI in his shop analysing footage and has come away with the idea they are working with 8 minutes. He may be wrong but he was with the FBI and we were not so I'm taking it.

:dunno:

I may be giving them too much credit here, but I believe the FBI have worked out the clock differences etc.

Also, Mr G said he saw the bikes at ABOUT 12.20, which gives some room for flexibility, certainly a workable timeframe. He has NEVER said "exactly 12.20"...we could even be working with a 10 or 15 minute time frame, which is ample.

Also, I mapped from 3520 Cornbelt to 1020 Lake - 1.1 miles.


:moo:

 

[CoeTrawk]

Ok google maps has 1.1 miles from Cornbelt Auctions to Lake Ave.

Shortest route - straight down S Evans.

Time - 4 minutes.

Not sure how to post the damn thing though....

I would also like to just add that to cut time off their trip from the Lake Ave sort of area to the "blind curve(s)" of the TG sighting, they could ride across the empty field south of Arbutus. It is downhill in that direction and they had a BMX and mountain bike that could easily deal with off road riding. Just a thought.

 

[nikb]

I certainly can see your (& hubbies) point ...although terribly sad that others can't watch out for others' children anymore without getting accused of being a pedo.

Agreed 100%!

 

[ShyViolet]

I think it's entirely likely that others HAVE come forward with that information to LE, just not the media.

I agree. Also, the C's description of Elizabeth, is remarkably similar to the description given by the Collins of their daughter. I will look for the link.

 

[hambirg]

BBM
I wonder about that too. I just can't imagine that Elizabeth rode down there all the time. I have always thought that perhaps it was another girl and they just thought it was Elizabeth. But I think it's possible that Mr. C saw them that day...possible :fence:

This is pretty much what I think too.

Something that occurred to me today, and maybe this has already been hashed out. . .BUT what if Mr C and biker guy's sightings were before the cctv tape?

 

[hollyblue]

Ok google maps has 1.1 miles from Cornbelt Auctions to Lake Ave.

Shortest route - straight down S Evans.

Time - 4 minutes.

Not sure how to post the damn thing though....

Bing maps has it at 5, and I just left the family's addy in there. Close enough.

http://binged.it/R2r0xa

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space> Too late to make a long story short, but anyway - not only is it hard to know what you'd do in a given situatin, but it's also hard to know what someone else has gone through to account for their actions in that same situation.

Confusion WOW you have been through so much! I'm sorry doesn't even cut it, but I am very sorry for everything you've had to endure. Thank you for being willing to share it.

 

[MNDad]

I'd like to know how the Carpenters afford to water their lawn for three hours. I don't water mine and our last water bill was $126!

I have a sprinkler system with nine zones. Some zones are set for an hour each and some for less. House is on city water, but sprinklers are on well, so it doesn't cost me anything.

 

[rjjensen]

I am getting 8 minutes from Mr Pahl who spent a day and a half with the FBI in his shop analysing footage and has come away with the idea they are working with 8 minutes. He may be wrong but he was with the FBI and we were not so I'm taking it.

:dunno:

I may be giving them too much credit here, but I believe the FBI have worked out the clock differences etc.

Also, Mr G said he saw the bikes at ABOUT 12.20, which gives some room for flexibility, certainly a workable timeframe. He has NEVER said "exactly 12.20"...we could even be working with a 10 or 15 minute time frame, which is ample.

Also, I mapped from 3520 Cornbelt to 1020 Lake - 1.1 miles.


:moo:

mr g saw the bikes then road to the rest room and then calld his daughter at 12:27..that means all of that took 7 minutes...sounds reasonable..even if mr g was off by 5 minutes that would mean he saw the bikes at 12:25 which would give the girls 6 minutes to make the trip and get off of the bikes..not likely in my mind. also they didnt stop at 1020 lake they stopped behind the lake 1.3 miles in my estimation.

 

[Simp]

My first question regarding TG was why didn't he think anything was hinky? There is no place to go between two fences in that 10' wide isolated area besides the behind the gate. I would have first been pizzed about the bike on the trial and stopped to move it against the fence for courtesy to others. All the while, looking for the persons responsible for it. Adults wouldn't normally do that and at least one was a child's bike. I don't know how big the mountain bike was/is. ? Like I said before, it's not like they laid the bikes down next to a trail that had open woods or a field to explore. I'd be asking where are these kids? IDK, but I think most people would wonder the same in an area so enclosed. ???? I've also wondered if TG returned home the same way around the lake and if the bikes were still there or if he went on to the northern part and returned down by Arbutus and 6th? jmo

Well, I will try and answer to the best of my ability. Lol
It's been my understanding the bikes were close to a gate, a gate that was unlocked. So, TG could have thought ......... KIDS TODAY!!! They just toss their bikes and go off rambling in the woods. As to why he may not have moved them, I can't say. Maybe for the same reason some people see trash on the ground and don't pick it up. They just step over it. I, on the other hand, pick up trash when it's just tossed about and throw it away. Especially in a park. I never thought if he went home back by the bikes. I always "assumed" he didn't go back the same way. Of course this is MOO!!! I value other people's opinions, this is just mine!

 

[rjjensen]

Bing maps has it at 5, and I just left the family's addy in there. Close enough.

http://binged.it/R2r0xa

they didnt stop at lake ave they stopped behind the lake..please include the distance to the area behind the lake..about 1.3 miles in my est.

 

[azuredewdrop]

BBM

My reactions (non-reactions) are just one of many reasons why I'd hate to be in the place of one of the family or friends. I've been told that I'm an odd mixture of cold and sensitive.

People are always saying that I'm one of the warmest and friendliest people they know, but I've also been told many times that I'm one of the least emotional or excitable people they know.

Some examples: when I was 12, I woke up at about 6:00am to find a drunk man I'd never seen before sitting on my bed. I was confused, but I sat and talked to him for over 1/2 hour before I stood up and ran from my room to my mother's to get her (not because I was scared, but because I had no idea where the house he was supposedly looking for was.) The guy was gone before we got back to my room, but my mother was freaking out. We eventually found out later that day that he was the ex-husband of the woman upstairs. He had threatened to kill her and was just released from prison (for assault and attempted murder of his mother), and had robbed the gun and sporting goods store the night before stealing a couple guns and a bunch of ammo. We lived in a duplex, and my bed happened to be right in front of the door that led to an interior stairway to the upstairs unit.

I was raped 3 times as a teen. At 14 by a friend's older brother, at 16 by my boyfriend's twin brother and at 18 by a "nice guy" we met at a wedding dance/reception and my mother insisted that I accept a ride home from...she thought it was time I spent time with some respectable people for a change! I never screamed or cried during any of them, and never reported any (my family had me pretty well convinced that if anything like that ever happened it would be because I had asked for it, and nobody'd believe me anyway...even with all the bruises the 3rd time)

I have been to more funerals in my life than most people have been to parties. All 4 grandparents, both parents, most of my aunts and uncles, and well over 100 people I considered to be friends at one time. A lot were from cancer or other 'natural' causes, a lot were from car accidents, but one was murdered by her ex-husband, 3 were shot by friends/acquaintences, 1 was shot by a family member, 3 committed suicide, 3 were murdered by unknown people, and a variety of others. I have never shed a tear at one of the funerals I've been to, and almost never at home - definitely not in public.

I have no doubt that I'd be worried sick if it were one of my kids or any other kid I'm close to, but I think I'd be lynched here and probably in the media if I were ever questioned about the disappearance of one. Even my son asked me one time (he was about 10), "Mom, why is it that the more something bothers you, the more jokes you make about it?" I've also had friends walk up to me and ask if me if the person I was talking to was going to be needing a blood towel. When the person asked what they meant, they'd say, "From that smile on her face, I'd say she's going to deck you any minute."

Too late to make a long story short, but anyway - not only is it hard to know what you'd do in a given situatin, but it's also hard to know what someone else has gone through to account for their actions in that same situation.

I absolutely couldn't agree more! I can not count how many times I have handled the most stressful situation (where others around me are freaking out) and managed to stay very still and calm. I think it must run in my family though. When my grandfather was in the hospital dying (they had just taken him off of life support), my family coped by joking (very morbidly) about what we think each other's funerals should be like and about other very morbid things (and laughing our heads off!). At the mortuary 2 days later, we were in fits of laughter over every little thing. Was it appropriate? Absolutely not. And for some of us...it would seem very out of character! But it was how we coped with the very awful and very real pain that we felt. We apologized to the mortician and he said that he sees this reaction far more often than people would expect.

 

[Confusion]

Confusion WOW you have been through so much! I'm sorry doesn't even cut it, but I am very sorry for everything you've had to endure. Thank you for being willing to share it.

Thanks. I guess I have a strange outlook on most things. I believe that something good has come from almost every bad thing that has happened in my life, although it's often hard to see it for a long time. I also believe that every bad thing I go through gives me more strength, and helps me to help other people going through the same thing. I may not always have the best advice for a friend, but I'm usually pretty good at knowing when they're looking for advice and when they're just looking for a sounding board or shoulder to cry on.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Over here, "watering" your yard may just be a matter of moseying on out to the tap, turning it on, setting the timer, and going back to the soaps.

Yeah but then saying he "saw" the girls is really pretty loosey goosey.

Did he see them at noon when turned on the faucet?

Did he see them at 1:30 if, say, he went to move the sprinkler?

Did he see them at 3 when he went out to turn off the hose?

I mean it isn't as though he has provided a concrete sighting for the girls from 12 until 3.

Which makes me wonder if he thought he saw them because he often had, so he just told LE he did see them between those times on Friday because it was about the time of day he often did see them and he just wanted to be helpful.

In any case, a "sometime between 12-3 " timeline is really not helpful in narrowing down anything, which is why I think it should not be considered in the timeline. JMHO.