IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[cindersoot]

Geez, do you guys ever sleep. ? Love it.

 

[cindersoot]

Does LE usually poly witnesses?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I know you are probably right, but I am hoping that they haven't always been this way and maybe they can reflect back at a time in their life where they felt pain and empathize with these parents. May be wishful thinking, but aren't we all just wishing at this point.

There's some interesting research being done about childhood and psychopathy.

It seems to be something that is triggered before the age of 3 years old. Some children show symptoms of psychopathy and then grow out of it.

Barring some type of brain trauma, I cannot recall reading about any example of a person who grew up with normal empathy and then lost it after 3 years of age.

You may find the following article about attempts to identify and treat children who show symptoms of lack of empathy interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/m...a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html?pagewanted=all

 

[GrainneDhu]

Looking for hope. School is starting almost everywhere. Will someone notice Lyric and Elizabeth if/when they don't start school wherever they are? Will someone notice them if they show up as the new kids somewhere?

I live in a small town in Iowa, too, and every day that passes makes me sadder, and more worried, for Lyric and Elizabeth.

We don't lock our doors; I hear about some people who can't be bothered to lock their cars or carry their car keys and just leave them in the ignition. My 13 year old daughter and her friends ride their bikes everywhere, play in the creeks and the parks, climb trees, stroll and shop on Main street, sled down hills in the winter. I've urged them to be more careful but this is also the childhood my husband and I had and the childhood I want for my daughter and her friends. And for Lyric and Elizabeth.

Could the start of school bring them back? I don't want it to be harvest or hunting season.

I hope you are right.

However, Michael Devlin said that Shawn Hornbeck was being home schooled and coerced Shawn into saying the same thing.

Iowa's rules about home schooling are not that strict and I think that would be one easy way to avoid registering two girls out of place with a school district. It wouldn't fool someone who was investigating the situation but it would probably fool a casual enquirer.

 

[nursebeeme]

reminder: do not discuss pm (s) on the thread.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't think she hid it. I believe Lyric and her cousin were talking to men online and they both hid their online activities......at least for a while.

Many of these social sites allow you to see the zip code of the participants. The 24-year-old perv arrested in Waterloo for having sex with a 12-year-old he met on the internet was active on meetme.com. This site allows people of any age to participate and it shows their zip code. Very dangerous.

Since LE took the family's computers I would think that any such conversation online would have been thoroughly investigated.

I certainly hope so, anyway.

 

[cindersoot]

reminder: do not discuss pm (s) on the thread.

Sorry Ms Bee.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that whoever took them is either extremely well organized and detail oriented or one of the luckiest people alive. Things have just fallen into place too neatly with almost no evidence or witnesses.

SBM

I don't think it takes that much luck for a perp to grab someone and leave no evidence behind.

In the Sherry Arnold case, the two perps had been up for 4 days stoking a crack cocaine high. They decided to grab the next woman they saw, who turned out to be Sherry Arnold.

In that case, a witness driving by saw Sherry jogging probably about 30 seconds before she was abducted.

I doubt the perps would have ever been caught had they kept their mouths shut. Fortunately, Spell apparently felt guilty and started telling various people about it almost right away.

The only evidence that was left at the scene was one of Ms Arnold's shoes and a knit cap that Spell was wearing (his co-defendant, Waters, threw it on the ground in retaliation for Spell not realising her shoe had come off). The knit cap was found right away but it's value as evidence was unknown, since Spell was not entered in any DNA registries. So far as LE knew at the time, it was unrelated to the crime; people lose knit caps all the time in the winter.

My point with all this is that 2 guys riddled with crack were able to pull off an abduction that might have gone unsolved had they kept their mouths shut.

Grab and go abductions seem to be the most difficult type of crime to solve.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just thinking.... why did LE stop at Mr. C's house to ask if they knew anything but not stop at Ollipop's house which is even closer to the lake? Is there a cctv at the PD/Fire Station on Gilbert & Evans? Maybe there were seen on video there.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

I've been wondering about that myself.

I wonder if the reason LE hadn't stopped at Ollipop's house could be as simple as someone made a mistake and checked that house off as having been spoken to. Maybe LE did stop when no one was home and somehow, someone made a mistake in indicating that there was no one home when they knocked.

Reading true crime, investigations are full of tiny mistakes like that. Usually the mistakes don't affect the investigation, sometimes it lets a perp slip through the net.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I wouldn't call it "psychic" at all, really. Human beings are, by nature, highly symbolic. That's why some fool invented math and called it a language (and thoroughly confused me as a child til I just picked letters).
Actually, I was also considering "religious" symbolism here, too. Quite often, there is a strong tie to religion with perps who abduct children.

Buddhism has the eightfold path but I think it's unlikely that the perp is Buddhist simply because there are so few Buddhists in the US. It is very much a minority philosophy or religion (experts in such things cannot agree on whether it is a philosophy or religion).

 

[cindersoot]

Happening on Fri the 13th is strange, but I think its coincidence only. JMO

 

[TxLady2]

I know this was posted in WS some time ago, but another "random" thought kind of bothered me lately. Lyric's flip flops. I did see in an "extended" poster that she was wearing black Sesame Street ones with a picture that, when the shoes were put side-by-side, they made a picture. Those flip flops, as far as I could find, are only in MEN'S sizes (at WalMart). While I'm about 4-5 inches taller than Lyric, she's still quite a lot bigger than this ol' cow. I wear an 8, or a 6-7 in men's, so would have trouble finding a pair that fit me. They'd be too big for me, so she probably has pretty big hooves there. Big enough, perhaps, for someone ELSE to put those flip flops on and, ya know... leave a trail? That would possibly place Lyric "at the lake" for a scent trail. Maybe. As for Elizabeth, while I doubt the purse was used, she could have been there earlier with those neighbors. Just a thought... probably a really wild one.

They only carry Sesame Street flip-flops in MEN's sizes????? For pete's sake!!! Well.... it's Wal Mart... go figure. Wal Mart is not big on 'made in the U.S.A.' stuff.

 

[cindersoot]

They only carry Sesame Street flip-flops in MEN's sizes????? For pete's sake!!! Well.... it's Wal Mart... go figure. Wal Mart is not big on 'made in the U.S.A.' stuff.

A man wearing Sesame Street flip flops. :floorlaugh:

 

[tlcya]

Happening on Fri the 13th is strange, but I think its coincidence only. JMO

I agree with you.

 

[palaminodee]

Huh. Weird. Thanks for making me Google. I mean that sincerely.

I doubt most of what I'm thinking can be posted here as it probably drifts into the realm of psychics - which I know aren't allowed and I don't even claim to be one. But it's so along those lines, dreams that make no sense and the same bizarre details keep coming up. Thanks for you and others responding, at least I'm not the only one wondering about the number 8. I don't know that it'll be at all helpful for finding the girls but maybe there's something to it?

doesn't Gma live on 8th!

 

[palaminodee]

Happening on Fri the 13th is strange, but I think its coincidence only. JMO

not coincidental IMO,
abduction 7/13
Lizzy's birthday 7/31

#numerology...

 

[SouthernMom]

There is a quote from Heather in this article.

snipped ~ ""Her words of encouragement are hopeful I was afraid to even hear her talk about it. ... I was just afraid to even to go there, nine months you know is just so long, but her words of encouragement are uplifting," Heather Collins, the mother of one of the missing girls, wrote in a text message to ABC News. "Keeping our faith we know that the lord will bring them home safe and soon. We haven't had any news yet if they do have a lead they can't tell us because [it could] jeopardize the case." ~~snipped



http://abcnews.go.com/US/elizabeth-smart-encourages-families-missing-iowa-cousins/story?id=17049295#.UDOsHt2PWVo

 

[dnasmom9]

urs ago Misty has posted this comment on AMW http://www.yidio.com/show/america's-most-wanted <modsnip>

 

[Confusion]

SBM

I don't think it takes that much luck for a perp to grab someone and leave no evidence behind.

In the Sherry Arnold case, the two perps had been up for 4 days stoking a crack cocaine high. They decided to grab the next woman they saw, who turned out to be Sherry Arnold.

In that case, a witness driving by saw Sherry jogging probably about 30 seconds before she was abducted.

I doubt the perps would have ever been caught had they kept their mouths shut. Fortunately, Spell apparently felt guilty and started telling various people about it almost right away.

The only evidence that was left at the scene was one of Ms Arnold's shoes and a knit cap that Spell was wearing (his co-defendant, Waters, threw it on the ground in retaliation for Spell not realising her shoe had come off). The knit cap was found right away but it's value as evidence was unknown, since Spell was not entered in any DNA registries. So far as LE knew at the time, it was unrelated to the crime; people lose knit caps all the time in the winter.

My point with all this is that 2 guys riddled with crack were able to pull off an abduction that might have gone unsolved had they kept their mouths shut.

Grab and go abductions seem to be the most difficult type of crime to solve.

That just shows that other people can be lucky too! I guess this just shows me that there probably isn't anything that we ALL agree on.

 

[kytty]

I just can't believe there is still no solid information on what happened to these sweet girls!!!! My heart breaks for them
& their families.