IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[CHERIE.T]

I know this was posted in WS some time ago, but another "random" thought kind of bothered me lately. Lyric's flip flops. I did see in an "extended" poster that she was wearing black Sesame Street ones with a picture that, when the shoes were put side-by-side, they made a picture. Those flip flops, as far as I could find, are only in MEN'S sizes (at WalMart). While I'm about 4-5 inches taller than Lyric, she's still quite a lot bigger than this ol' cow. I wear an 8, or a 6-7 in men's, so would have trouble finding a pair that fit me. They'd be too big for me, so she probably has pretty big hooves there. Big enough, perhaps, for someone ELSE to put those flip flops on and, ya know... leave a trail? That would possibly place Lyric "at the lake" for a scent trail. Maybe. As for Elizabeth, while I doubt the purse was used, she could have been there earlier with those neighbors. Just a thought... probably a really wild one.

Oh myo! Another possibility,?

 

[Marilynilpa]

His neighborhood wasn't totally ignored.
OP himself said a few threads back that LE was
talking to people across the street from his home.
He also said sheriffs were driving on his street.
also a few threads back.

:what:

Imoo

Yes, but the point IMO is that Ollipop and his neighbors, who live closer to the lake, were not questioned the day the girls disappeared. Mr. C and his neighbors were questioned that day, IIRC. So why did LE focus on Mr. C's neighborhood and not a neighborhood closer to where the bikes were found??

 

[CHERIE.T]

Yes, but the point IMO is that Ollipop and his neighbors, who live closer to the lake, were not questioned the day the girls disappeared. Mr. C and his neighbors were questioned that day, IIRC. So why did LE focus on Mr. C's neighborhood and not a neighborhood closer to where the bikes were found??

Imoo, because LE early on was interested in the so called eye witnesses.

 

[Confusion]

In the beginning they were also working on the assumption that the girls had drowned, I think. The fact that they interviewed anybody that day makes it seem like they were trying to cover all bases just in case, although they seem to have missed some.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

In the beginning they were also working on the assumption that the girls had drowned, I think. The fact that they interviewed anybody that day makes it seem like they were trying to cover all bases just in case, although they seem to have missed some.

In the VERY beginning, until the bikes were found, just a couple of kids off where parents couldn't find them. This didn't turn into an official abduction for a week.

Just do a timeline of that first week... maybe week and a half.

 

[HeavenLeigh]

Fairly early on, all pertinent computers were confiscated by LE. Even if the girl(s) used fake aliases, someone else's account, or hid communications from family members, it's extremely difficult to hide such activity from LE, even if the hard drive(s) were formatted. I wouldn't be surprised if even library accounts were searched, as well, although a lot of that is barred on public computers.
While Lyric, according to MCM, had left her cell phone at home (WC's) and didn't have it with her that day, all phones were also confiscated and thoroughly gone over. All of that, when LE steps in, is actually pretty hard to hide then.

Let's hope LE checked ALL the various gaming devices & handheld gadgets that one can access the internet on as well.

Also kids are always spending the night with friends or other family and possibly sneak around & get online at their houses or the parents might not even care or watch them closely. Some of these friends/families may not come forward if they are wanting to stay as far away from LE as possible for various reasons themselves. So it is possible not all gizmos & gadgets the girls got used to get online will be looked & examined.

 

[nikb]

I know this was posted in WS some time ago, but another "random" thought kind of bothered me lately. Lyric's flip flops. I did see in an "extended" poster that she was wearing black Sesame Street ones with a picture that, when the shoes were put side-by-side, they made a picture. <snipped for space>

Later on her shoes were reported as having black straps with "diamonds" (I assume fake crystal-y things) on them. I never knew the Sesame Street ones were reported on a poster but that's interesting! I always thought of those shoes as a "we're not really sure but these are missing from the house" thing. As well as the 2:30 sighting so... take it for what it's worth.

Incidentally I'm not sure which I find stranger, the change in flip-flops or the fact that you could only find adult sized Sesame Street character flip flops in Men's sizes. Yikes!

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Incidentally I'm not sure which I find stranger, the change in flip-flops or the fact that you could only find adult sized Sesame Street character flip flops in Men's sizes. Yikes!

Well, it IS WalMart, after all... let's not continue this part <lol>

 

[nikb]

an 8 and 10 year old?? Not a chance! It's actually a lot harder than most people think, and that age... they'd have to be genuine computer whizzes (and already recruited by the NSA) Simply deleting/erasing does little, actually. It's still there...

If they managed it I'm hiring them! Not that I run or work for a company that needs this, but I've tried numerous times to "permanently delete" a hard drive before donating or giving away a compter. Not an easy feat. I think anything on the girls' computers was probably still there or at least retrievable by someone who knows what they're doing.

Re: a later post I'm not too sure how easy it is to hide/delete stuff from gaming type applications, if the girls had access to those. I keep getting stuff on my Facebook that has nothing to do with me, but it's related to things a number of my friends 'like.' Someone somewhere can get to way more info than I'd even like to believe, I think.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Imoo, because LE early on was interested in the so called eye witnesses.

I still find it odd that LE didn't go to all houses close to the lake and check garages, sheds, basements, large trash bins, empty cars, etc., when searching for the girls on July 13th. But that doesn't appear to have happened, I guess because LE didn't consider them missing at the time. JMO.

A light bulb just popped up above my head - I think I now understand why some people favor the staged bicycles theory. By those two bikes being found at the lake, maybe the perp DID buy himself some time because so much of the search initially focused on the lake. That focus may have kept other options from being explored as fully - i.e., searching the places I mentioned above. JMO.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

A light bulb just popped up above my head - I think I now understand why some people favor the staged bicycles theory. By those two bikes being found at the lake, maybe the perp DID buy himself some time because so much of the search initially focused on the lake. That focus may have kept other options from being explored as fully - i.e., searching the places I mentioned above. JMO.

that, too... yup yup yup

 

[otto]

and with all that LE showing up, it's also possible Mr. Carpenter met 'em half way across Gilbert... with Mrs. Carpenter offering a subtle push <lol> ("Go see what's going on, Bob!") Bless 'em.

There's a video interview I posted a while ago where he says that the officers came to his house and he answered the door. His wife wasn't home at the time that he supposedly saw the girls.

 

[otto]

Yes, but the point IMO is that Ollipop and his neighbors, who live closer to the lake, were not questioned the day the girls disappeared. Mr. C and his neighbors were questioned that day, IIRC. So why did LE focus on Mr. C's neighborhood and not a neighborhood closer to where the bikes were found??

I think they simply live on different sides of the lake.

It's possible that investigators were at first more interested in the East side of the lake because:
1. the bikes were found on the SE tip of the lake, and
2. they were trying to determine how the girls bikes got there.
The girls could have ridden the bikes along the trail from Lafayette, or they could have zig zagged through the streets. Investigators had to start somewhere, so they picked the East side. That neighborhood is the closest to where the bikes were found.

 

[nikb]

I wouldn't call it "psychic" at all, really. Human beings are, by nature, highly symbolic. That's why some fool invented math and called it a language (and thoroughly confused me as a child til I just picked letters).

Actually, I was also considering "religious" symbolism here, too. Quite often, there is a strong tie to religion with perps who abduct children.

Thanks. I'm with you on math/letters!

Hmm a quick Google search revealed more than I ever would've guessed about the number 8. It's probably nothing but it was surprising. I mean the kids were abtuced on a Friday the 13th (already a superstitious day) and then the number 8 all over the place? And now it's August (8th month)? I'm sorry, I'm probably nuts for even going there, I just couldn't shake the numerous mentions of "8." Even more so now that I Google'd it. I so hope this thought is way off base, especially if it means the girls get home safe and SOON.

 

[otto]

I still find it odd that LE didn't go to all houses close to the lake and check garages, sheds, basements, large trash bins, empty cars, etc., when searching for the girls on July 13th. But that doesn't appear to have happened, I guess because LE didn't consider them missing at the time. JMO.

A light bulb just popped up above my head - I think I now understand why some people favor the staged bicycles theory. By those two bikes being found at the lake, maybe the perp DID buy himself some time because so much of the search initially focused on the lake. That focus may have kept other options from being explored as fully - i.e., searching the places I mentioned above. JMO.

Over 1000 people searched 12 square miles around the lake on the two weekends following the abduction. By no means did the police focus exclusively on the lake. The river was also searched.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think they simply live on different sides of the lake.

It's possible that investigators were at first more interested in the East side of the lake because:
1. the bikes were found on the SE tip of the lake, and
2. they were trying to determine how the girls bikes got there.
The girls could have ridden the bikes along the trail from Lafayette, or they could have zig zagged through the streets. Investigators had to start somewhere, so they picked the East side. That neighborhood is the closest to where the bikes were found.

Thanks, that makes sense. I appreciate you explaining it to me!

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think it's important to keep the facts as clear as possible when discussing missing person's cases. Yesterday there was a lot of discussion about the aunt claiming that she spoke to someone that allegedly saw the girls at the lake on July 13, yet a week after their disappearance, investigators stated that they had yet to speak to anyone that could confirm that the girls were at the lake that afternoon. I guess either the aunt, or the person she spoke to, was mistaken.

SBM

Another possibility is that they have one or more witnesses who think they saw the girls at the lake but were less than 100% sure or missed some detail that LE has deliberately kept secret from the public.

Those hypothetical witnesses could be correct but unsure or simply did not remember the secret detail(s). Or the witnesses could be mistaken.

In any of those cases, I think it would add up to "unconfirmed."

 

[GrainneDhu]

It seems to me that a house that is on the market needs to be sold and the minute someone is interested, realtors will be on the doorstep accessing the lockbox. There is no privacy, so why would a kidnapper take children to a house where he has no control over who might unexpectedly walk in the door at any given moment? I don't think our kidnapper is that dumb.

Robert Hare, in his book Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us, wrote about an experiment during WWII where psychopaths were deliberately assigned as fighter pilots. The idea was that with their lack of fear they would be more effective at air combat than normal men who were pilots.

It was a disaster. Sure, those psychopath pilots were more than willing to take insane risks during air combat with the enemy. They were also willing to shoot down other planes on their own side for giggles, were so fearless in combat that they would kill themselves for no good reason and, in general, lost more planes and had more fatalities than normal pilots.

Even under conditions where a given decision would mean they would die, they were just as willing to knowingly decide to make that fatal decision as to forgo that particular risk and live to fight another day. It didn't bother them because they had no loyalty to their own side and no fear of death.

Next to that, taking the risk a realtor might suddenly come into the house they are using as a waystation in an abduction seems to me to be a low risk decision for a psychopath.

Needless to say, I believe that the perpetrator is a psychopath.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM --

They split the commission. It happens frequently. I don't know if it differs from state to state but here any agent can show any agency's listing. The listing agent and the one who negotiated the sell will split the commission that comes from the agency's profit.

That's how it works in Iowa.

 

[GrainneDhu]

It's really hard to say for sure who might have had access to the house. I was looking for a place not too long ago and an agent showed me a place that was a good possibility. When I asked about seeing it a second time because my son wanted to check it out too, either I appear very trustworthy, the agent was very lazy or both. He gave me the code for the lock box so I could bring him over to see it whenever I wanted to (instead of working with the agent's schedule.)

It was rather nice to think he trusted me that much, but I was a bit paranoid about who else he may have trusted that much, and if those people could be trusted not to make duplicate keys. Even though I really didn't think it was likely to have happened, it was enough to make me lose interest in the place.

I may be unduly paranoid but when I lived in Iowa City, the very first thing I did in each new place I lived was get the locks re-keyed. It's not terribly expensive and it's cheap insurance against a previous owner or tenant who made an honest mistake in forgetting they'd given a key to someone else.

For me, re-keying was just one of the routine expenses of moving.

Which is kind of funny now because when I was in the hosptial for nearly 4 months and my husband was staying with me (we were 60 miles from home), the house was unlocked the entire time. We never lock it when we're at home and my husband couldn't find the key when he came to room in with me.

One of our neighbours volunteered to mow the lawn regularly and another checked on our cats and brought in the mail every day.

We had our four attack cats on the prowl and it must have worked because there were no break ins or theft while we were gone.

If we'd wanted to be more careful, we could have left a can of sardines on the porch with a note saying "if you plan to break in, please smear yourself with these first." The four attack cats would do anything for sardines.