IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[Sunlight]

Can anyone tell me another theory on how T.B. felt they were at the lake?
This is my own..moo

Is it possible she found out about the lake second hand?
T.B.is the babysitter for her own grand daughter,while her older step daughter works.
T.B. needed to go out with her mom at 1:30-2 pm.
T.B.could have also maybe needed a babysitter for her grand child..
T.B. has a minor child who is old enough to babysit for an hour or so..
What if that minor had plans to meet her cousin at the lake.
T.B. put a stop to that so she could babysit.
Maybe they had a plan to meet with unnamed/unknown person.
Maybe, maybe, maybe, that's how T.B. knew to go to the lake..
MOOO Mooo Moo..


I think when you take simple questions and figure out answers the rest falls into place..moo

Ohh...the bigger baBy. I can see that.

 

[cindersoot]

JMO, but not only have photos become blurry now and some have completely disappeared, names from articles have been changed, and statements have changed. I think it is very strange.

Very odd thats for sure.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Something just doesn't sit right with me when it comes to Aunt Tammy's account (unfortunately).

TB doesn't live in Evansdale, but rather Waterloo. And even though Heather and Drew lived in Evansdale, I don't understand how TB would have had a "gut instinct" to go anywhere in that town. If Heather and Drew didn't have that instinct NOR Grandma (who was there daily), why would TB even remotely think about that lake?

Even if their kids hung out together and were shuffled home to home and spent a lot of time at each others houses etc. it STILL doesn't make sense to me that anyone would have a gut instinct about places in a town they don't live in.

I agree with the prior poster who said it just seems hinky that TB had this gut instinct and low and behold there are the bikes. What made that gut instinct kick in? Hopefully everything has been shared with LE, and I'm sure it has...we just aren't privy to why the lake was the first place to visit even though the immediate family didn't feel they even knew the lake existed, let alone would ride that far.

I do NOT think the family is involved whatsoever, but I struggle to believe that "gut instinct" alone is what landed her at the place the bikes were - when she's not a parent of either of these girls NOR lives in the town they were abducted in.

Praying we simply haven't been informed of what led them to the lake search and that LE brings these girls home soon.

BBM

I believe that someone (I'm thinking Ollipop, who is a verified local and related by marriage) said that Meyer's Lake was the last place the family checked.

Aunt TB's gut instinct reminds me of someone I knew who had a lot of gut feelings about a lot of things. She felt she had some sort of gift because she could remember being right so often. The rest of us would just try not to talk about it because we all remembered that she was wrong about 100 times for every time she was right. She just didn't remember the times she was wrong.

Maybe this was Aunt TB's one in a hundred chance coming up. With only 3 parks in Evansdale, she had a 33% chance of being correct.

Also, consider that she said that in an interview a few days after the event. It's possible that, like my friend, she was unconsciously bending the ways things happened to fit with how things turned out.

I kinda like her. I also think she really, really enjoys being in the spotlight.

Which would make a better narrative? "Well, I knew they'd called all of Elizabeth's friends and checked the two small parks, so the lake was kind of the last chance" or "I immediately had a gut feeling I knew where they were!"

 

[Sunlight]

I think it is totally possible that, because Aunt T lives in Waterloo and has other kids (including one who was late with Lyric) she may have heard something about the lake in a different context, and when the situation with the girls arose, perhaps she put 2 and 2 together and thought the lake would be a probable or possible destination. Akin to a gut feeling, but more based on logic and the heat of the moment. MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

Do we know that the reason was kept from KB?

Kids keep secrets. In my observation, those from dysfunctional families tend to keep secrets very well.

It is also possible that an adult was told, but the adult is keeping it under wraps as well.

It's possible KB is keeping it secret.

I tend to believe, though, that by 11 years old, a child would be old enough to understand that no matter how awful a secret feels to tell, the safety of two of her cousins might ride on her revealing it to LE.

And I also hope that the FBI response team had one or more experts on interviewing children conduct the interviews.

I do not think anyone in the families was responsible for the girls' disappearance, although the perpetrator may be someone that one or more family members know and probably don't suspect in the least.

I really think this was a random crime, where the perpetrator knew of a good place to commit the crime and did not have a specific victim in mind.

ETA: I was unaware that there was evidence that Aunt TB's family was dysfunctional.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think Aunt T is the "fixer" in the family dynamic...the one compelled to try to put the pieces back together in the crumbling wall. The one that you have to watch, because she might just grab the steering wheel while she is backseat driving. My SIL is so much like her..she even looks like her lol. I love my SIL.

What a great description!

Yeah, I've met a few people like that. And most of the time, what they were fixing wasn't really broken, it just wasn't quite the way they'd do it themselves.

 

[Sunlight]

IMHO, only a stranger sexually-perverted type, who groomed them, if even briefly, would abduct two pre-adolescent girls and disappear them. I don't feel that it is drug-related, or young guys... It is possible that a slightly older person could have been the target and that the girls came instead..but an older, say teenage girl, and younger girls are like apples and oranges...as far as the tastes of a perp goes. Maybe I'm totally off base. Maybe a perp will take anything that moves so to speak. Well, I guess it depends on which scenario. I guess it could be a retaliation type of thing as well. I do think it was planned. I do think it is related to the park in Waterloo. Oy vey.

MOO

 

[Sunlight]

Just throwing this out there....Could older female, jealous, bully-type girls/women/woman do this in a retaliation act of some kind? I've known a few doosies in my lifetime. All we've discussed are males. MOO

 

[Sailorsgirl]

Anyone can read these threads without signing up. Once they do sign up, they are free to join in any discussion, or post any theory or opinion they want to as long as they follow TOS. If that is trying to steer the discussion in a different direction, then half the posters here are guilty of that at some point in time.
We should not discourage newbies from posting. Who knows? They may have some ideas that could lead to clues and help solve the case.

Thank you, TxLady2. I am someone who signed up because I wanted to post on this thread. I have been to websleuths a number of times, but just read, mostly, old cases.
I think, for the most part, people change the subject because they have questions that they want answered or want to put their own ideas forward.

Back on topic. I was away for a few days and read back, but it seems there is nothing new as far as LE and media, right?

 

[nursebeeme]

Just throwing this out there....Could older female, jealous, bully-type girls/women/woman do this in a retaliation act of some kind? I've known a few doosies in my lifetime. All we've discussed are males. MOO

Any angle can be discussed as long as it does not involve speculation or sleuthing of the family.

 

[hambirg]

JMO, but not only have photos become blurry now and some have completely disappeared, names from articles have been changed, and statements have changed. I think it is very strange.

It's been my experience that things like this happen in almost every case. . .very common. The best info is always found as soon as a case breaks, because after that things start to disappear and change.

MOO

 

[Sailorsgirl]

IMHO, only a stranger sexually-perverted type, who groomed them, if even briefly, would abduct two pre-adolescent girls and disappear them. I don't feel that it is drug-related, or young guys... It is possible that a slightly older person could have been the target and that the girls came instead..but an older, say teenage girl, and younger girls are like apples and oranges...as far as the tastes of a perp goes. Maybe I'm totally off base. Maybe a perp will take anything that moves so to speak. Well, I guess it depends on which scenario. I guess it could be a retaliation type of thing as well. I do think it was planned. I do think it is related to the park in Waterloo. Oy vey.

MOO

It still could have been an acquaintance sexually perverted type though. Also, not sure if pedophiles would take a teenager over a young girl or vice versa. There is a big difference, IMO, between the two.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

It's been my experience that things like this happen in almost every case. . .very common. The best info is always found as soon as a case breaks, because after that things start to disappear and change.

MOO

Could also be that mistakes were made in a rush to write a story or that people realized what they said to police or media wasn't how they meant to say them so they have edited things for clarity and coherence.

 

[hambirg]

Could also be that mistakes were made in a rush to write a story or that people realized what they said to police or media wasn't how they meant to say them so they have edited things for clarity and coherence.

Oh yes, that too. Things are often cleared up and clarified.

ETA- I still believe that the FBI spokeswoman didn't mis-speak when she said a "runner" had seen the bikes but not the girls. I think this was the man TB spoke to regarding the 2:30 time. It seems understandable to me that TB asked people if they had seen two little girls on bikes (I think somewhere it said she was describing the bikes too) and the runner had seen the bikes and said. . .yes I saw them going that way. . .meaning not the girls, but the bikes. But once LE showed up and talked to him, that was clarified that he saw the bikes, not the girls, and that TB had mis-understood what he said.

"I saw them going east on the trail."

Two ways to interpret that. . .

I saw THEM GOING east on the trail. . .meaning girls traveling east. . .OR

I saw them (going east on the trail). . .meaning I saw the bikes on the trail in the east direction.

Did that make any sense?

 

[TxLady2]

Thank you, TxLady2. I am someone who signed up because I wanted to post on this thread. I have been to websleuths a number of times, but just read, mostly, old cases.
I think, for the most part, people change the subject because they have questions that they want answered or want to put their own ideas forward.

Back on topic. I was away for a few days and read back, but it seems there is nothing new as far as LE and media, right?

You're welcome and you're right.. people sometimes just want to talk about something else. But to me... and no offense intended... this is not a site to be paranoid about. We're all here for the same purpose, to discuss these cases and hopefully find out what's happened. If there are a few who manage to distract or redirect the subject matter, whether intentional or otherwise, there is always the option to ignore them. If one gets bored with the subject matter, one can always leave and come back later.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

Oh yes, that too. Things are often cleared up and clarified.

ETA- I still believe that the FBI spokeswoman didn't mis-speak when she said a "runner" had seen the bikes but not the girls. I think this was the man TB spoke to regarding the 2:30 time. It seems understandable to me that TB asked people if they had seen two little girls on bikes (I think somewhere it said she was describing the bikes too) and the runner had seen the bikes and said. . .yes I saw them going that way. . .meaning not the girls, but the bikes. But once LE showed up and talked to him, that was clarified that he saw the bikes, not the girls, and that TB had mis-understood what he said.

"I saw them going east on the trail."

Two ways to interpret that. . .

I saw THEM GOING east on the trail. . .meaning girls traveling east. . .OR

I saw them (going east on the trail). . .meaning I saw the bikes on the trail in the east direction.

Did that make any sense?

Makes total sense! I wouldn't have even thought of that unless you posted it both ways!

 

[Sailorsgirl]

You're welcome and you're right.. people sometimes just want to talk about something else. But to me... and no offense intended... this is not a site to be paranoid about. We're all here for the same purpose, to discuss these cases and hopefully find out what's happened. If there are a few who manage to distract or redirect the subject matter, whether intentional or otherwise, there is always the option to ignore them. If one gets bored with the subject matter, one can always leave and come back later.

I think it's also natural for other discussions to take place such as people relating their own experiences and others asking about it, etc. We can't always JUST talk about the case as it stands and I think, sometimes, people talking freely helps give us other ideas, insight, thoughts about the case at hand.

 

[Sunlight]

@ Hambirg

But LE never changed the timeline from 2:15-3:58. They asked for info from anyone who may have seen them before 3:00. They didn't say between 2:30-3:00 or 2:00-3:00. There would also have to be a way that the time the guy TB spoke with could be "pinpointed"...either by a witness (TB) or by a phone call or something. In TG's case, it can be actually pinpointed, because of the record of the phone call, which put him at a certainish location at a specific time. So, it is hard to tell if they were just mincing words on purpose or not. MOO

 

[TxLady2]

Police said that although the dogs tracked the scent from the bikes to the lake, there was no confirmation that the girls had been at the lake.

It seems to me that the likelihood of a perp spontaneously encountering the girls at that remote location is low. It's possible, but not very likely.

I don't know a lot about predators, but some of them might prefer to pick a remote spot rather than someplace they would likely be seen. Some of them are opportunists, not all of them plan these crimes.
What are the chances of coming across a woman walking on a country road at just the right time and a place that they can't be seen grabbing her?
Or coming across a young woman hiking down the highway late at night after being locked out of a concert?
Or coming across a young woman after she was released from jail in the wee hours of the morning?
All these crimes were crimes of opportunity, not planned.
Anything is possible, but if you (general, not personal) try to make sense out of everything, you won't solve many cases. You have to think outside the box and not be stuck on what is logical.

 

[TxLady2]

I think it's also natural for other discussions to take place such as people relating their own experiences and others asking about it, etc. We can't always JUST talk about the case as it stands and I think, sometimes, people talking freely helps give us other ideas, insight, thoughts about the case at hand.

Yes, some of us old-timers tend to relate our own experiences at times. We tend to think of each other as family, or at least good friends, and enjoy sharing stories.

I think the OP was talking about posters trying to deflect the conversations away from certain subjects, maybe to squelch any new information that might be hitting too close to the truth. I have not observed that here very often, but I'm sure it goes on some places.