IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #17

[Jules71]

She reluctantly let them go for a "short" ride at around 11.30, as they had plans and had to be home.

I read into this that they were expected home around 12.00 or 12.15 at the latest...indeed, they were caught on cctv at this time, just across the road from home.

Granma got annoyed and worried shortly after 12.15, but you're right, she said she SAW them at this time...so why not just call them in then?

:dunno:

I believe grandma said they were going to leave at 1:30 because she had plans with Aunt T back in Waterloo. I guess she could have looked out the window at 12:15 and saw them and figured they would be coming right in. And when they didn't she called for them and got worried when they didn't come. That makes me think they did not go to the lake after she saw them because they had already been gone 45 minutes. They may have gone to the lake before and made it back to their street - and then vanished from right out of cctv range.

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[roseofsharon]

If it was a known fact that the cctv clock was 8 minutes slow, I wonder why the owner didn't have this repaired.

Would this clock stand up in court if a case ever presented itself. :waitasec:

IMO

 

[Sunlight]

I believe the 8 minutes is getting mixed up here.

There are two Mr P talks about, not one.

The first 8 minutes is the difference in clocks.

The second 8 minutes is the TRAVEL TIME between the auction house and the lake.

Like I said earlier, this should be renamed "The Case of the 8 Minutes'.

It's just coincidence...if he'd said the clock was 9 minutes out, or 5 minutes out, we wouldn't be so confused...

My opinion only of course.

:moo:

What does it matter whether the footage was 8 minutes later due to the cellular clock...and what does it matter whether or not the girls could make it to the lake in any given time? Either, both, or none. Does it matter?

 

[SapphireSteel]

I believe grandma said they were going to leave at 1:30 because she had plans with Aunt T back in Waterloo. I guess she could have looked out the window at 12:15 and saw them and figured they would be coming right in. And when they didn't she called for them and got worried when they didn't come. That makes me think they did not go to the lake after she saw them because they had already been gone 45 minutes. They may have gone to the lake before and made it back to their street - and then vanished from right out of cctv range.

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Which brings me straight back to -

The bike sighting at 12.20
The sighting of the girls in Lake Ave
The scent at the lake.

I just can't explain these all away so easily...

:moo:

 

[Jules71]

SBM

I thought it was because DC got home about 12:30, so she could leave then. She said she could normally call for the girls and have them show up right away because they were within a couple of blocks. If she called for them and they didn't come, I think she probably went looking for them more out of anger than out of worry. She didn't sound very worriied until DC called her to come back later. MOO

I think you are right and that makes sense. Do you know where we got the info that Drew got back at 12:30? Also anyone remember when Heather got there? I am thinking about 2.

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[SapphireSteel]

What does it matter whether the footage was 8 minutes later due to the cellular clock...and what does it matter whether or not the girls could make it to the lake in any given time? Either, both, or none. Does it matter?

If none of it matters, we may as well shut the thread down right now...

 

[nikb]

Completely off topic but I was so amazed I have to share.
<snipped for space> Anyway...I sent my husband out there about 10 mins before we left. I closed the blinds so the dog didn't see him heading out there. Once I could see from inside the house he was completely out of site I said to the dog "wanna go for a walk" to which of course he got excited.

We walked out the back door (opposite of the door my husband went out of). We got to the edge of our lot (where the dog's underground fence collar would go off) and he stopped and waited for me to give him the "ok" that he could go past and onto the acreage.

I'm not kidding you guys...he didn't even break stride. He went to the treeline along the back of our house - sniffed right at the 2 spots where he had brushed - and completely ignored our EVERY NIGHT walking path. He literally sprinted right to my husband who was crouched down behind a huge brush pile under a tree he's never been to in an area he's never walked.

I was completely amazed that he did this. I fully expected him to turn left when we got to the fence and continue our walk as we do every night. Nope...he didn't even as much as turn to the left...he went straight with his nose down and then raised up a couple times and found him immediately!
<snip>

Very cool story! Thanks for sharing. And I must admit I'm :floorlaugh: a little bit. I hope your husband is into sleuthing and/or dog tracking too! I can imagine my husband humoring me but giving me the weirdest look if I said "Can you go walk where we don't usually go and rub up against some branches? I'm just going to shut the blinds so the dog doesn't see... we'll come look for you soon."

 

[roseofsharon]

Which brings me straight back to -

The bike sighting at 12.20
The sighting of the girls in Lake Ave
The scent at the lake.

I just can't explain these all away so easily...

:moo:

Even if Mr. C could recall approximately how much time had elapsed after his lunch (seeing the girls) would be helpful (if he had lunch that is). imo

 

[Confusion]

I think you are right and that makes sense. Do you know where we got the info that Drew got back at 12:30? Also anyone remember when Heather got there? I am thinking about 2.

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I just remember her saying, that her and KC started looking for them at 12:30 because "the dad was home then." I don't remember anyone saying when Heather got home and started looking for them, just when she got home from searching (right before going to the PD.)

 

[Jules71]

Which brings me straight back to -

The bike sighting at 12.20
The sighting of the girls in Lake Ave
The scent at the lake.

I just can't explain these all away so easily...

:moo:

If they went to the lake between 11:30 and 12:15 that satisfies Mr. C's sighting and their scent at the lake! TG's doesn't fit if they went before or after being on cctv. MOO

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[SapphireSteel]

Even if Mr. C could recall approximately how much time had elapsed after his lunch would be helpful (if he had lunch that is). imo

He actually said between 12 and 1.

It was his wife who corrected him to 12 and 3.

12 and 1 fits with...guess what....TG's sighting of the bikes.

:cow:

 

[Sunlight]

What does it matter whether the footage was 8 minutes later due to the cellular clock...and what does it matter whether or not the girls could make it to the lake in any given time? Either, both, or none. Does it matter?

Please don't misunderstand me...I'm not suggesting that what you say doesn't matter. Not at all. No, what I'm asking is...what is the logic of why it matters, if you get what I mean.

 

[LaylaD]

Second thought is I noticed he didn't mention the lake, just a distance. I assume there's got to be some reason he came up with a mile and a half, and the lake is the likely option, but he didn't come out and say "the lake." (at least here, who knows what was reported elsewhere)

Maybe someone (Otto?) could make a really cool map with a circle showing where 1.5 miles falls from the cctv sighting.

 

[nikb]

<snipped for space>
Granma got annoyed and worried shortly after 12.15, but you're right, she said she SAW them at this time...so why not just call them in then?

This is also on my list of things I'm trying to find. And I see others have found some of the stuff I was looking for . Thanks, and apologies if this is also repeat info, but I haven't yet seen anything that says G'ma "saw" them at that 12:15 or thereabouts. I've read she was at the Collins house where she was "watching" the kids but I took that to mean more like babysitting, not looking out the window for Lizzie and Lyric. IMO.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Case Archive:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...izabeth Collins - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-/

 

[nikb]

Exactly. So why should the travel time matter at all??? Why couldn't it be 15 minutes...like they were dinking around...what difference does it make what the estimated travel time is?

It's a stretch but maybe he was pondering how far they could get in the 8 minutes "off" on the CCTV video? As in, "I'm sure they couldn't have gotten that far away" and he threw in some distances?

 

[Jules71]

This is also on my list of things I'm trying to find. And I see others have found some of the stuff I was looking for . Thanks, and apologies if this is also repeat info, but I haven't yet seen anything that says G'ma "saw" them at that 12:15 or thereabouts. I've read she was at the Collins house where she was "watching" the kids but I took that to mean more like babysitting, not looking out the window for Lizzie and Lyric. IMO.

I just provided some info from the first thread where it was stated she last saw them at 12:15. But I have not heard her or seen her quoted saying she looked out the window and saw them. I just took it as she really did see them then because that was stated before the cctv confirmed the time.

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[TeenyTaurus]

Please don't misunderstand me...I'm not suggesting that what you say doesn't matter. Not at all. No, what I'm asking is...what is the logic of why it matters, if you get what I mean.

To try and establish, and narrow down, a more specific timeline of events, for one. While the camera's time stamp may have been off, even that is easily corrected (and not with a cell phone, but off of solar time). A camera would not be mistaken or lie, once that other stuff is taken care of.
While you might think that LE would simply take the time on a cell phone as "correct," as in TGs case, think again. That does not matter, records of the call placed through the service provider does. Those have to be accurate for 911 calls.
Regardless of what Mr. Pahl said, LE knows any discrepancies where the time stamp is concerned, I'm sure.
Such little details overall just make for more scenarios for others. <lol> Oh, well.

 

[SapphireSteel]

This is also on my list of things I'm trying to find. And I see others have found some of the stuff I was looking for . Thanks, and apologies if this is also repeat info, but I haven't yet seen anything that says G'ma "saw" them at that 12:15 or thereabouts. I've read she was at the Collins house where she was "watching" the kids but I took that to mean more like babysitting, not looking out the window for Lizzie and Lyric. IMO.

Theres this -

8-year-old Elizabeth Collins and 10-year-old Lyric Cook were last seen Friday afternoon by their grandmother around 12:15. Authorities are manning a tipline in the case 24 hours a day at 319-232-6682.

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19023342/evansdale-police-searching-for-two-missing-girls

this -

Lyric and Elizabeth were last seen by their grandmother, Wylma Cook, riding their bikes near downtown at about 12:15 p.m. on July 13.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_d5ff400c-ec59-11e1-a2bd-0019bb2963f4.html

and this (but I don't know who was speaking, maybe DM?)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just like they vanished. Into nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like they just vanished.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ]The last place that I can tell you is where they were at is when grandma seen them at 12:15.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

ETA: statement analysis would have a field day with the underlined.

:saythat:

 

[Sunlight]

It's a stretch but maybe he was pondering how far they could get in the 8 minutes "off" on the CCTV video? As in, "I'm sure they couldn't have gotten that far away" and he threw in some distances?

What do you mean "that" far away? To where? By when? He's comparing it to when they supposedly got there...right? What time were they supposedly supposed to get there by? Why would that matter?