IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

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Marilynilpa said:
Thanks for your answer. I think maybe I got a little too off-topic with this one, I blame it on chronic pain, lack of sleep and frustration in not being able to figure out what happened to these sweet little girls!
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Warning! This post is going to be pretty graphic, so skip it if you don't want the details.

I doubt someone could get into a hog confinement facility to dispose of two bodies. They are kept pretty secure so that animal rights activists cannot get in and do something stupid, like turn all the hogs loose.

Farms that keep some pigs along with raising crops and other livestock are less secure by their very nature. Hog confinement is a big building, easy to secure. A farm that raises hogs usually has a pig lot or pig pasture rather than confining the pigs full time.

There are fewer farms keeping hogs these days because the big confinement faciities can do it cheaper. Thirty or 40 years ago, it was pretty common to hear of someone getting hurt by pigs. About once a year or so, I'd read about someone who cut across a pig lot by accident or were knocked down while feeding the pigs. Nowadays, not so often. Maybe once every 5 years.

Mostly people get hurt by pigs when they get between a sow and her piglets. Sows with piglets can be extremely aggressive, they are actually quite good mothers. In those cases, the pigs don't typically eat the victim. The sow kills what she sees as a threat to her piglets and then the pigs calm down and go back to eating their usual foods.

If the body stays in the pig lot long enough, the pigs will eat it. However, pigs are not concentrated feeders by nature. Given the chance, they graze from food to food. So it would take several days for pigs in a lot or pasture to completely consume a human body, even a small one.

So I doubt that leaving two bodies in a pig lot or pasture would work as a way to conceal two deaths. Pigs are somewhat suspicious of new foods and will only eat a little of it, then go on to eating their usual foods. After some hours, they will go back to eat a little more of the novel food, then go back to the usual foods.

It's hard for me to believe that any farmer would be so neglectful as to not notice this process going on.
 
GrainneDhu said:
Warning! This post is going to be pretty graphic, so skip it if you don't want the details.

I doubt someone could get into a hog confinement facility to dispose of two bodies. They are kept pretty secure so that animal rights activists cannot get in and do something stupid, like turn all the hogs loose.

Farms that keep some pigs along with raising crops and other livestock are less secure by their very nature. Hog confinement is a big building, easy to secure. A farm that raises hogs usually has a pig lot or pig pasture rather than confining the pigs full time.

There are fewer farms keeping hogs these days because the big confinement faciities can do it cheaper. Thirty or 40 years ago, it was pretty common to hear of someone getting hurt by pigs. About once a year or so, I'd read about someone who cut across a pig lot by accident or were knocked down while feeding the pigs. Nowadays, not so often. Maybe once every 5 years.

Mostly people get hurt by pigs when they get between a sow and her piglets. Sows with piglets can be extremely aggressive, they are actually quite good mothers. In those cases, the pigs don't typically eat the victim. The sow kills what she sees as a threat to her piglets and then the pigs calm down and go back to eating their usual foods.

If the body stays in the pig lot long enough, the pigs will eat it. However, pigs are not concentrated feeders by nature. Given the chance, they graze from food to food. So it would take several days for pigs in a lot or pasture to completely consume a human body, even a small one.

So I doubt that leaving two bodies in a pig lot or pasture would work as a way to conceal two deaths. Pigs are somewhat suspicious of new foods and will only eat a little of it, then go on to eating their usual foods. After some hours, they will go back to eat a little more of the novel food, then go back to the usual foods.

It's hard for me to believe that any farmer would be so neglectful as to not notice this process going on.
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I agree.

I was thinking about Lyric and Elizabeth, late at night/early one morning, and for some reason serial killer Robert Pickton popped up in my head. Since he disposed of the bodies of prostitutes by feeding them to his pigs, I started wondering about pig/hog farms.

As I stated in an earlier post, my original question arose out a combination of chronic pain, insomnia and frustration - not a very good combination, and one which unfortunately leads to dark thoughts at times. Sorry.
 
Marilynilpa said:
SBM, BBM

At this point, I have no idea WHO we need to worry about in terms of abductors. But again, I did not say one word about a pig farmer being involved, in fact I specifically stated I was not sleuthing anyone. I was just curious because my dark mind led me to wonder about a pig farm vis-a-vis disposal of a body.

I'm done with this topic now!
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LOL... I had to laugh with you!!!
I am done also ... but it is so funny how we can go on and on...
Just when you posted that you are done with this topic another post was put up
that had a warning before you read it because it is not for the weak!

I could not even begin to read it because I am enjoying my Latte
way too much!!!!
Thank you for making me laugh this morning! Now I am enjoying my Latte
even more!!! :floorlaugh:
 
First, I'd like to preface this post with a disclaimer! I am not psychic, I don't foretell the future (other than things like, better watch out or you're going to get hurt.) On the other hand, a lot of people think I am. The main reason is that I am a very perceptive person, but I'm not always sure about what it is I'm actually perceiving. I'll often get thoughts, or mental images, and have no idea what they're based on at the time. Later, when I put pieces together, I realize that they're based on things I've seen, heard, read, etc., but hadn't put together yet.

The images/thoughts I've been having for a couple weeks now are:

Both girls on the floor of a building. It looks like an animal shelter or something similar. It has high, small windows, concrete floors and the walls are at least partially made of cinder blocks. They are in a stall, or some other blocked off area, with an old wooden fence/half-wall separating them from the next area. They are usually covered with a dark blanket, and appear to be alive, but I never "see" them move. (I assume that's because I haven't experienced enough lately for my mind to decide if they're alive or not.)

Through the windows, I just see a lot of trees, but they don't look like they're right next to the building. I don't actually see or hear any animals. The first few times, I'd 'see' Lyric laying facing the wooden wall covered in a blanket, and Elizabeth sitting next to her, with her knees bent and her head laying on her knees. Lately, when I do see it, both girls are sitting under the blanket, and it just looks like Elizabeth is leaning on Lyric, who has an arm around Elizabeth's shoulder.

My questions are:

Does anything that's been discussed or pictures that have been posted seem to point to any area of this scene?

Are there any hobby farms close to town that are maybe abandoned or just used as a home (no crops or animals)?

Is there someone close by he had horses in the past, but no longer has them, or has recently built a new stable?

Are there many other wooded areas around, oher than right by the lakes?

Am I just going nuts?

Does any of this suggest anything to anyone else?

Thanks for your patience and understanding, if you have any - sorry for wasting your time, if you don't. :waitasec:
 
Marilynilpa said:
I agree.

I was thinking about Lyric and Elizabeth, late at night/early one morning, and for some reason serial killer Robert Pickton popped up in my head. Since he disposed of the bodies of prostitutes by feeding them to his pigs, I started wondering about pig/hog farms.

As I stated in an earlier post, my original question arose out a combination of chronic pain, insomnia and frustration - not a very good combination, and one which unfortunately leads to dark thoughts at times. Sorry.
Click to expand...

I actually thought it was quite a logical idea.

Most people living in the US today have no connection with farming. Only about 2-3% of the US population are living on farms. I imagine more than that know about pig behaviour, but not a whole lot more.

Robert Pickton may or may not have fed his victims to his pigs; no one really knows for sure. If he did, the reason it worked was probably because the pigs had no other source of food and were not wary of eating anything presented in their troughs. He also probably dismembered and cooked the bodies before feeding them to the pigs (pig food is supposed to be cooked to reduce problems with trichinosis infection).

Someone who knew nothing about pigs might well think putting two bodies into a pig lot or pig pasture would be an effective way of disposing of them. They would be wrong but they would not realise they were wrong. If you see what I mean!

Putting the bodies into an edge habitat area would be more effective. Edge habitat is the boundary between two distinct types of habitat. For example, the edge of a forest where it meets a crop field is an edge habitat.

Edge habitat tends to have the greatest variety of flora and fauna. Great biological diversity and that includes scavengers.

I have edge habitat on my little acreage because I have a windbreak that has gone wild. A doe died back there a couple summers ago, probably hit by car but managed to make her way away from the road before she died.

It only took about 10 days for her carcass to be reduced to just a few scattered bones due to scavenger activity. It was the middle of summer, when there were lots of young animals going out into the world for the first time and needing easy food. There is always a population bump in the middle of summer, before the young die off due to starvation, predation, inexperience with vehicles, etc. Even her skull was gone and it disappeared pretty early in the process (brain tissue is mostly fat, which is highly nutritious for wild animals).

Since the corn harvest has already started, I'm hoping that if Elizabeth and Lyric are out there, they will be found. Sort of hope and hope not, anyway.
 
Hope things aren't getting OT here, but I wanted to add one of my experiences with pigs/hogs.

When I was in my teens, I spent a lot of time on a friend's farm. They had mainly crops, but did keep several pigs in a barn, mostly for personal consumption; they had a large family.

One day while a bunch of us were messing around, one of the guys through part of his lunch to a sow, I can't remember if it was ham or pork chop, but I know it came from a pig. Everybody started laughing and calling her a cannibal because she gobbled it up right away. The next day they had to butcher her; she had eaten all of her babies and was trying to break through to the next pen to get after the pigs in there.

We were told after that to never give any kind of meat to a pig, because once they get a taste for it they can sometimes become obsessed with it.
 
daisynae said:
LOL... I had to laugh with you!!!
I am done also ... but it is so funny how we can go on and on...
Just when you posted that you are done with this topic another post was put up
that had a warning before you read it because it is not for the weak!

I could not even begin to read it because I am enjoying my Latte
way too much!!!!
Thank you for making me laugh this morning! Now I am enjoying my Latte
even more!!! :floorlaugh:
Click to expand...
Ahhhh...much needed, sweet comic relief! When I logged on only to find a serious discussion about hogs, it begged the question: Are we allowed to sleuth hogs as obstructors of justice as long as we don't name them?!?
 
I'm sure this was discussed but I'm gonna ask anyway--feeling too lazy to research right now.

Why does the missing poster say the girls were last seen riding their bikes at a nearby lake at about 2 pm?
 
Jax49 said:
I'm sure this was discussed but I'm gonna ask anyway--feeling too lazy to research right now.

Why does the missing poster say the girls were last seen riding their bikes at a nearby lake at about 2 pm?
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Is that written on the FBI poster?
 
otto said:
Is that written on the FBI poster?
Click to expand...

I don't know about the FBI poster, the one I saw is on the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office site.

http://www.bhcso.org/

ETA: I just looked at the site again and right under the poster with 2pm is a line that says
12:15.

HUH????????????????

Re Otto's question about the FBI poster -- it says they were last seen in the morning.
 
I haven't checked in here for several weeks. I can't believe that these children are still missing. Ditto regarding Isabel Celis and Lisa Irwin.

I hate this.
 
Jax49 said:
I don't know about the FBI poster, the one I saw is on the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office site.

http://www.bhcso.org/

ETA: I just looked at the site again and right under the poster with 2pm is a line that says
12:15.

HUH????????????????

Re Otto's question about the FBI poster -- it says they were last seen in the morning.
Click to expand...

Someone must think that it doesn't matter too much when they were last seen to have conflicting times on one website and conflicting times between different websites. The facts should be pretty simple ... yet they are inconsistent.
 
So we have posters and statements from LE sites with times of 'morning', 12:15 and 2pm.

Plus the missing person site with 12:05.

No wonder I'm confused on the timeline.
 
Jax49 said:
So we have posters and statements from LE sites with times of 'morning', 12:15 and 2pm.

Plus the missing person site with 12:05.

No wonder I'm confused on the timeline.
Click to expand...

Maybe someone local needs to contact them again and ask them to straighten out the facts.
 
LaylaD said:
I only saw this reported in a Chelsea Hoffman 'exclusive' news article with an un-named family member. If I understand correctly, this is a non-authoritative source?

ETA: If the family connection is correct, there was a WS forum set up for the previous event.
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This is not the story about them being from the same family but it is the original story from MSM. It was a custody case & the father was arrested in FL. How or IF they are related to the missing cousins I do not know.

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/199245/14/Douglas--Shelby-McCallum-safe-Father-in-custody
 
Confusion said:
----The images/thoughts I've been having for a couple weeks now are:

Both girls on the floor of a building. It looks like an animal shelter or something similar. It has high, small windows, concrete floors and the walls are at least partially made of cinder blocks. -------:
Click to expand...

SBM

Your post reminded me of the photo of the two LEOs going into a egress window well of a business.

It is on the Photobucket for this case -- I can't access it at work but maybe whne I get home.
 
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