IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[GrainneDhu]

I'm just so afraid we are slowly getting colder and colder.................
I can't help but think if this were my child, I would be going crazy.... NUTS!!!!!

I don't have a link but I do remember that one of the family interviews recently (I think with Heather and Drew Collins) said something that clearly implied they are getting regular updates from LE.

So long as LE is doing what they can to help the families, I think my curiosity won't kill me.

 

[hambirg]

Because of the Lisa Irwin case, I have learned more about cell phones, cell phone pings and triangulation than I care to. The thing with Elizabeth's cell phone, it would have only pinged if it was on. If she was only using it for games, I suspect it was only on when she was playing with it, to preserve the battery. If it was on, even if it didn't have service, even if she didn't make a call, it would ping to the tower every few seconds.

There was a case of a family driving from Seattle to Oregon who got snowed in on a remote logging road. It was the Kim family. Anyway, they were eventually able to locate the mom and kids because they occasionally turned the cell phone on, even though they were not able to get a signal and call out, searchers were still able to triangulate their location. Their story is here. . .James Kim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just an FYI. .. tonight I was asking my 10yr old, hypothetically, if she was approached by someone with a gun and was with her brother (who is just a little older) and the person put the gun to her brother and said, "Come with me." What would she do. She first asked, "Was this someplace in public or secluded? (because I always tell them. . no matter what, don't go with the person. They are not going to kill you right there. They want to take you someplace secluded and then kill you.) I told her secluded. And she said, "Boy, that's tough." She said that she would not want to leave her brother and just run away to save herself.

Soooooo. . .we had the appropriate conversation that would follow that. If you go, you are both dead. You have to try and get away in order to have any chance of saving the other child.

Just thought that might be relevant here.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What about if the battery is dead? The phone I use now has to be charged evre day, otherwise shuts itself off. Would a phone without a battery ping? What about the SIM card, will they still work without it??
What I don't know about cell phones and pings, etc., would fill a big thick book.

A cell phone is basically a super fancy walkie-talkie. So it will not work if the battery is drained any more than a walkie-talkie can work without battery power.

I believe that a cell phone without a SIM card will still call 911 but I could be mistaken.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Because of the Lisa Irwin case, I have learned more about cell phones, cell phone pings and triangulation than I care to. The thing with Elizabeth's cell phone, it would have only pinged if it was on. If she was only using it for games, I suspect it was only on when she was playing with it, to preserve the battery. If it was on, even if it didn't have service, even if she didn't make a call, it would ping to the tower every few seconds.

There was a case of a family driving from Seattle to Oregon who got snowed in on a remote logging road. It was the Kim family. Anyway, they were eventually able to locate the mom and kids because they occasionally turned the cell phone on, even though they were not able to get a signal and call out, searchers were still able to triangulate their location. Their story is here. . .James Kim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just an FYI. .. tonight I was asking my 10yr old, hypothetically, if she was approached by someone with a gun and was with her brother (who is just a little older) and the person put the gun to her brother and said, "Come with me." What would she do. She first asked, "Was this someplace in public or secluded? (because I always tell them. . no matter what, don't go with the person. They are not going to kill you right there. They want to take you someplace secluded and then kill you.) I told her secluded. And she said, "Boy, that's tough." She said that she would not want to leave her brother and just run away to save herself.

Soooooo. . .we had the appropriate conversation that would follow that. If you go, you are both dead. You have to try and get away in order to have any chance of saving the other child.

Just thought that might be relevant here.

"It would only ping if it was on. "
Thank you thank you. I made that comment here weeks ago and again was jumped on like flies on a sugar cube. Thank you so much for posting this.

 

[princesspjs]

<<<snipped>>>>
Just an FYI. .. tonight I was asking my 10yr old, hypothetically, if she was approached by someone with a gun and was with her brother (who is just a little older) and the person put the gun to her brother and said, "Come with me." What would she do. She first asked, "Was this someplace in public or secluded? (because I always tell them. . no matter what, don't go with the person. They are not going to kill you right there. They want to take you someplace secluded and then kill you.) I told her secluded. And she said, "Boy, that's tough." She said that she would not want to leave her brother and just run away to save herself.

Soooooo. . .we had the appropriate conversation that would follow that. If you go, you are both dead. You have to try and get away in order to have any chance of saving the other child.

Just thought that might be relevant here.

My girls and I are going to Vegas next month for my Grandma's 90th Birthday. I'm already wondering how I'm going to handle it without going crazy and calling them every 30 minutes while they're walking the strip at all hours of the night. With all of the crazies to boot.

I'm going to have this talk with them on the plane ride over. I'm sure they will be rolling their eyes and groaning at me. But, I still want them to have it fresh in their mind to do anything in their power to not go with the nut-job.

My kids are 22 and 25 years old. I wonder if the motherly fear of someone stealing your baby ever goes away. :blushing:

 

[writer7]

"It would only ping if it was on. "
Thank you thank you. I made that comment here weeks ago and again was jumped on like flies on a sugar cube. Thank you so much for posting this.

I missed that conversation, but it is my understanding that cell carriers and LE (in certain situations only) can and do turn on cell phones that were not on. No battery power is the only thing that can trip that up. This may not be true for all makes and carriers, but 'tis true

Really covert LE can even use your turned off cell phone as a bug! Although you'd notice the power light, I'd think (right?). That probably works best if the phone was already on

 

[TeenyTaurus]

What about if the battery is dead? The phone I use now has to be charged evre day, otherwise shuts itself off. Would a phone without a battery ping? What about the SIM card, will they still work without it??
What I don't know about cell phones and pings, etc., would fill a big thick book.

If the battery is dead, or the phone is turned off, then no, it can't do anything. It's an electronic device, it must be powered up.
In the US, unless it's a weird phone, it can ping a tower and dial 911 without a SIM card, yes.

 

[hambirg]

My girls and I are going to Vegas next month for my Grandma's 90th Birthday. I'm already wondering how I'm going to handle it without going crazy and calling them every 30 minutes while they're walking the strip at all hours of the night. With all of the crazies to boot.

I'm going to have this talk with them on the plane ride over. I'm sure they will be rolling their eyes and groaning at me. But, I still want them to have it fresh in their mind to do anything in their power to not go with the nut-job.

My kids are 22 and 25 years old. I wonder if the motherly fear of someone stealing your baby ever goes away. :blushing:

I don't think it does. . .:hug:

I have a 16yr old too. She rolls her eyes at me a LOT. But I don't care. I tell her if she turns up missing I want to be able to pin point for the police where something went wrong. . .so she knows she has to call me when she goes from point A to point B.

BTW. . .have fun in Vegas. There's so many people out and about at all hours I always felt pretty safe.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I missed that conversation, but it is my understanding that cell carriers and LE (in certain situations only) can and do turn on cell phones that were not on. No battery power is the only thing that can trip that up. This may not be true for all makes and carriers, but 'tis true

Really covert LE can even use your turned off cell phone as a bug! Although you'd notice the power light, I'd think (right?). That probably works best if the phone was already on

um, you wouldn't notice a thing. Yes, many phones now can be powered up remotely by LE. Tracking, as in a GPS system, doesn't need a cell tower, it's done via satellite (usually in, like, terrorist stuff), so the carrier is of no importance there.
Edit: And no, the phone does not have to be powered up by a battery in that case. Such would have to be an extreme case, however.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I missed that conversation, but it is my understanding that cell carriers and LE (in certain situations only) can and do turn on cell phones that were not on. No battery power is the only thing that can trip that up. This may not be true for all makes and carriers, but 'tis true

Really covert LE can even use your turned off cell phone as a bug! Although you'd notice the power light, I'd think (right?). That probably works best if the phone was already on

Thank you for the information writer!

 

[CN2Souls]

Sheriff Abben bless his heart :hug:

BUT is it just me or is he serious that they have NO clue what the girls were wearing,

Watch this video of a press Conf.


http://bcove.me/azzc519m at 1:40 mark..... :waitasec:


Adden Talking Candid about purse http://bcove.me/indp0qk5 at 1:00 mark

 

[TripleA]

My girls and I are going to Vegas next month for my Grandma's 90th Birthday. I'm already wondering how I'm going to handle it without going crazy and calling them every 30 minutes while they're walking the strip at all hours of the night. With all of the crazies to boot.

They have the phone app that you can see exactly where a phone is at all times. It moves around on a map as the phone moves.

 

[ShyViolet]

Sheriff Abben bless his heart :hug:

BUT is it just me or is he serious that they have NO clue what the girls were wearing,

Watch this video of a press Conf.


http://bcove.me/azzc519m at 1:40 mark..... :waitasec:


Adden Talking Candid about purse http://bcove.me/indp0qk5 at 1:00 mark

SBM:

M. MORRISSEY: OK, I can tell you what I know. I know that it`s a little disturbing, and it`s kind of frustrating for us as a family, as well, because you don`t notice sometimes what did your kid throw on that morning and what did they take off in?

I left for work at 8:30 that morning, and so Lyric was still in her pajamas. She was in a bright green shirt. Sometimes she tends to wear that same pajama outfit, you know, with my mother over to my sister, Heather`s. I know for sure she had on her purple flip-flops. And that`s the only shoe that has -- is missing from the home. So we know that for sure. There are about..."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

 

[TxLady2]

A cell phone is basically a super fancy walkie-talkie. So it will not work if the battery is drained any more than a walkie-talkie can work without battery power.

I believe that a cell phone without a SIM card will still call 911 but I could be mistaken.

I think you're right.

 

[Fukiyama]

My girls and I are going to Vegas next month for my Grandma's 90th Birthday. I'm already wondering how I'm going to handle it without going crazy and calling them every 30 minutes while they're walking the strip at all hours of the night. With all of the crazies to boot.

I'm going to have this talk with them on the plane ride over. I'm sure they will be rolling their eyes and groaning at me. But, I still want them to have it fresh in their mind to do anything in their power to not go with the nut-job.

My kids are 22 and 25 years old. I wonder if the motherly fear of someone stealing your baby ever goes away. :blushing:

VA - Amy Bradley, 23, Petersburg, 24 March 1998 - A current spotlight case in the 1990s Missing forum.

 

[Kathy023]

I have a question for the veteran websleuths who've followed many cases. While I think ANY number of things could've happened near the secluded lake/trail, let's say these girls were taken somewhere close by to where the auction video was ... how would someone carry out the abduction of two girls while they're actually bicycling? Ya know, moving? What method would/could be used?


Gotta say ... I'm just having the hardest time seeing that as being L&E riding those bikes in the auction video!! :dunno:

 

[Sunlight]

I have a question for the veteran websleuths who've followed many cases. While I think ANY number of things could've happened near the secluded lake/trail, let's say these girls were taken somewhere close by to where the auction video was ... how would someone carry out the abduction of two girls while they're actually bicycling? Ya know, moving? What method would/could be used?

Side note: I am just having the hardest time believing that those bikes in the auction video are being ridden by L&E!! :dunno:

TIA!

If that was not the girls riding by on that video, then it had to be one of three things...a re-enactment? Ask yourself....why would LE put that out there? The bikes were being ridden by other people to go drop them at the lake....that would mean that the girls were already abducted between est. 11:30 and one of the 3 video timestamp estimates. It could also mean one other thing...but that would be against the TOS rules...that scenario seems to me to have been the early theory of LE...but over time...not so much (unless they have something else). Moo

 

[gregjrichards]

I have a question for the veteran websleuths who've followed many cases. While I think ANY number of things could've happened near the secluded lake/trail, let's say these girls were taken somewhere close by to where the auction video was ... how would someone carry out the abduction of two girls while they're actually bicycling? Ya know, moving? What method would/could be used?

Side note: I am just having the hardest time believing that those bikes in the auction video are being ridden by L&E!! :dunno:

TIA!

Welcome to Websleuths! I have followed a few cases on here don't know if I'm a veteran yet. Abduction whilst moving could be done by knocking one or both girls bikes down with a truck or car. This is what happened to Mickey Shunick. I guess you could also deflate the tyres of a bike whilst one or both girls are stopped and distracted. You could maybe puncture tyres somehow.

I don't think that this has happened in this case though because law enforcement found the girls bikes and didn't report any damage.

 

[Kathy023]

If that was not the girls riding by on that video, then it had to be one of three things...a re-enactment. Ask yourself....why would LE put that out there? The only other answer I can see is if the bikes were being ridden by other people to go drop them at the lake....that would mean that the girls were already abducted between est. 11:30 and one of the 3 video timestamp estimates. It could also mean one other thing...but that would be against the TOS rules...that scenario seems to me to have been the early theory of LE...but over time...not so much (unless they have something else).

Thanks Sunlight!

 

[otto]

My girls and I are going to Vegas next month for my Grandma's 90th Birthday. I'm already wondering how I'm going to handle it without going crazy and calling them every 30 minutes while they're walking the strip at all hours of the night. With all of the crazies to boot.

I'm going to have this talk with them on the plane ride over. I'm sure they will be rolling their eyes and groaning at me. But, I still want them to have it fresh in their mind to do anything in their power to not go with the nut-job.

My kids are 22 and 25 years old. I wonder if the motherly fear of someone stealing your baby ever goes away. :blushing:

I think there comes a time when you have to trust that you've given your children the tools they need to make good choices. For me, that is around the age of 14. Between the ages of 12 and 14, we have a talk about independence (which is very important to children at that age) and responsibility. They can't have one without the other. The more responsible they are, the more independence they are given. It's a three steps forward, one step back process. My son turned 17 in May. Last Saturday he and his 16 year old cousin returned from a two week vacation in two European countries. They stayed with relatives, but they still had to manage a fair bit on their own. I think that the more we trust our children, the less fear we experience in connection with their independence.

My son marveled at the fact that he was allowed to legally drink beer in Europe, but that did not mean he wanted to get drunk. I'm sure that your daughters will be fine as long as they use common sense, stay alert and make good choices.

I think that Lyric and Elizabeth, when confronted with someone that wanted to abduct them, were simply too young to make and implement the right choices. If one of them was trapped, the other would most likely have been too conflicted to make the right choice (to run).