IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[RNER]

I'm seeing money involved, but not in the form of a Kidnapping or Ransom...There's a lot of money to be lost and people going to jail from a Meth business shutting down. I see the girls as collateral!

IMO, People will do anything to protect their interests and investments in this line of business!

In the drug world...there's nothing worse than a "snitch"!

http://news.yahoo.com/judge-delays-trial-father-missing-iowa-girl-154516750.html

Quote: Morrissey's mother-in-law, Wylma Cook, said Morrissey had been giving investigators information on other methamphetamine makers in recent months to shave time off his own possible sentence.

"Dan 'narc-ed' on a bunch of people," Cook said, using a slang term for telling police about other drug users and dealers. "Everybody knows that."

Cook said Morrissey had been expected to accept a plea agreement July 12, the day before the girls vanished, but decided not to do so because he was not ready to go jail. She said prosecutors had shaved his sentence from more than 45 years to 30 years and then to 10 years, with a mandatory five years behind bars, because of his cooperation.

Prosecutor Brad Walz, who did not object to the delay in Morrissey's trials, has repeatedly declined comment on Morrissey's plea negotiations.

Cook said "it's possible" her son-in-law made an enemy through his cooperation with police, and she said investigators are scrutinizing Morrissey's associates as they search for the girls. He recently met with them to allow them to go through all the contacts in his phone, Cook said.

Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson said Friday that investigators were casting a wide net as they chase leads in the case. His agency is working jointly with the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation and the FBI.

"We're not ruling anything out with regard to the investigation, to include Daniel Morrissey's criminal history, his known associates, any prior or future criminal activities," he said. "We're not ruling out any of those."

 

[Bootsctr]

BBM
Thanks, Boots, that's an interesting theory I haven't seen yet...and you could very well be right. I think you're saying they were abducted from the skate park?

Playing devil's advocate here: Wouldn't Elizabeth most likely have taken her purse with her? And what about the FBI bloodhounds...wouldn't they have made a beeline for the skate park? Of course, for all I know maybe they did.

Hi Foxbluff! I don't think they were abducted from the skate park although I think a person intent on getting his hands on two little girls would risk it. I think the skate park could have been part of the attraction of why the girls headed to the lake that day. I think the girls came down Elmer, took a left off Elmer and headed East on Gilbert. They then took a right onto Lake Avenue. At the end of Lake they took a left on Arbitus to the bike trail from which they took left onto the bike trail and rode their bikes to where they were eventually found. See NurseBeeMe's map here: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msi...ll=42.465291,-92.285821&spn=0.012204,0.032809

Thanks for playing devil's advocate. You're right about the bloodhounds tracking the girls to the skate park if the girls had indeed made it to the skate park. As far as Elizabeth's purse, maybe she did just set it down if the girls were doing a bit of exploring.... maybe.

The person who had been following the girls had probably been following them back as far as when they left Lizzie's house. This person suspected the girls were going to the lake or the skatepark. When the girls took a right onto Lake Avenue or any of the other streets of interest, this person knew where the girls were headed. In fact, if he was following them far enough back to see that they took a right onto Lake Avenue, he could have turned right on S. Evans where he eventually intersected with them and lured them back to his vehicle. I don't think it was necessarily a white van, probably a car, maybe a pickup. As far as planning in advance, I think he only needed to plan to have his gun or knife handy and needed to have rope and duct tape. Most people would have those items irregardless of ill intent. :moo:

 

[Bootsctr]

Leave their bikes and walk up to the skatepark? The skatepark is a ways up from the lake. The skatepark is not in a secluded area, there are many houses nearby.

You're right. I think the girls never went to the skatepark, but I won't rule out that as a possibility of part of the attraction as to why they went to the lake. You're also right that the skatepark is not secluded, but would that deter a truly evil person intent on getting his hands on the little girls?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Look at BTK.

He was an organised perp who managed to overpower whole families.

He was the guy next to you in church...literally.

They don't have horns and tails, unfortunately. Evil looks just like you or me.

 

[otto]

I'm seeing money involved, but not in the form of a Kidnapping or Ransom...There's a lot of money to be lost and people going to jail from a Meth business shutting down. I see the girls as collateral!

IMO, People will do anything to protect their interests and investments in this line of business!

What does Elizabeth have to do with meth and illegal drugs ... it`s absolutely impossible. There`s no way that Elizabeth was kidnapped as some sort of drug business collateral. And Lyric ... a child living with her grandmother. Seriously, I can`t understand why anyone would try to connect meth with these two children. They lived in different towns and have no connection to meth.

 

[otto]

BBM

I'm sorry, but I never said this "nasty person" was known by the entire extended family. If you will recheck my post, you will see that I said this person IMO was known to at least one girl's family. I didn't say both families, and I certainly never said extended family.

How can Elizabeth's family possibly know that no one important in their lives is capable of kidnapping her? And how do we know Gma doesn't know someone who is capable of doing this? How many times has a trusted friend, church official, school teacher, coach, etc., been found to be other than what people thought? It happens all the time, and to assume that no one capable of the abduction of these girls could possibly be masquerading as a supportive, trusted friend is unrealistic, IMO.

We might all know someone capable of doing that, maybe even someone in our own church or circle of close friends. We wouldn't know he/she was a "nasty person." They could be very good at hiding it even from those closest to them. JMO

Lyric was being raised by her grandmother, Elizabeth by her parents. If it wasn`t the extended family, then it must be either Elizabeth or Lyric`s guardian. Why would Lyric`s grandmother or Elizabeth`s parents have their children kidnapped as drug collateral ... makes no sense to me.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The fake injury worked well for Ted Bundy, unfortunately, so I don't see why a wheelchair wouldn't work equally well.

Of course, to my knowledge, Bundy never abducted two girls at one time.

He came very close when he abducted two women within about an hour.

He abducted both Janice Ott (23) and Denise Naslund (18) from the beach at Lake Sammamish on a busy day. He used the ruse of a fake arm cast and asking for help unloading a small sailboat from the top of his car.

Speaking of double abductions, there's Cinda Pallet (13) and Charlotte Kinsey (13) who both disappeared in 1981 from a parking lot at the Oklahoma State Fair. They may have been abducted by a trucker who posed as a carnival worker and offered the girls $10 each (which was a lot more 31 years ago than it is now) to help him unload stuffed animals.

There's also Carlene Brown (19) and Christy Gross (19), who both disappeared in 1974 from the Little Britches Rodeo in Rawlins Wyoming.

Joseph Duncan III confessed to abducting and murdering sisters SammieJo White (11) and Carmen Cubias (9) from Seattle.

Edmund Kemper III seemed to have a real preference for double abductions. He killed Mary Ann Pesce (18) and Anita Luchessa (18) in 1972; and Rosalind Thorpe (24) and Allison Liu (23) in 1973.

So double abductions by strangers are unusual but, sadly, not unheard of. Some perps seem to actually prefer them.

 

[CHERIE.T]

What does Elizabeth have to do with meth and illegal drugs ... it`s absolutely impossible. There`s no way that Elizabeth was kidnapped as some sort of drug business collateral. And Lyric ... a child living with her grandmother. Seriously, I can`t understand why anyone would try to connect meth with these two children. They lived in different towns and have no connection to meth.

But Otto, at least 2 of Lyrics loved ones were involved with Meth.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Lyric was being raised by her grandmother, Elizabeth by her parents. If it wasn`t the extended family, then it must be either Elizabeth or Lyric`s guardian. Why would Lyric`s grandmother or Elizabeth`s parents have their children kidnapped as drug collateral ... makes no sense to me.

I'm somehow not making myself clear. There are a lot of people who can be very close to a family without being a member of the family, regardless of who raised whom. Kids are abused by priests who are very trusted individuals. Did those kids and their families trust the priests? Yes. Did they really KNOW the priests. No. You can know who a person is, that person can even be close to you, and yet you may not know the 'true' person.

I'm not sure why you seem to think it can only be extended family, as I never used that phrase. IIRC, you are the first one to use that in response to one of my posts.

And please note that I have NEVER suggested the kids were kidnapped as drug collateral. I may have discussed it in response to others' posts, but I myself have not said that. It's fine if we disagree, but please don't put words in my mouth.

I really don't want to keep going back and forth about this, as it is obvious you do not agree with my theory and I'm not inclined to spend more time rehashing it. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not someone close to the family is capable of kidnapping the girls.

Thanks.

 

[Bootsctr]

Look at BTK.

He was an organised perp who managed to overpower whole families.

He was the guy next to you in church...literally.

They don't have horns and tails, unfortunately. Evil looks just like you or me.

BTK - the epitomy of evil! He was very organized. He had a lot of time to plan in catching his intended victim. As I recall though, he gave off creep signals too. He was not well liked by his neighbors. He was also the local animal patrol/dog catcher and I believe several people accused him of taking their pets from their own yards. I think he really was quite a nasty little man who got away with so much because he was a member of the community and a regular church going member.

 

[RNER]

Lyric was being raised by her grandmother, Elizabeth by her parents. If it wasn`t the extended family, then it must be either Elizabeth or Lyric`s guardian. Why would Lyric`s grandmother or Elizabeth`s parents have their children kidnapped as drug collateral ... makes no sense to me.

It is NOT my theory that anyone in the FAMILY did this! Perhaps their "associates" and/or "connections" higher up in the the drug business did to ensure that their business continued to exist and they didn't go to prison. These people could have even paid someone a lot of money to execute "the perfect storm".

IMOO...It was well-planned with perfect timing!

Again...I am NOT accusing family!

 

[SapphireSteel]

BTK - the epitomy of evil! He was very organized. He had a lot of time to plan in catching his intended victim. As I recall though, he gave off creep signals too. He was not well liked by his neighbors. He was also the local animal patrol/dog catcher and I believe several people accused him of taking their pets from their own yards. I think he really was quite a nasty little man who got away with so much because he was a member of the community and a regular church going member.

The trouble is, the more organised they are, the more difficult to catch.

What caught BTK in the end was his boasting.

None of that exists here...that we know of.

:banghead:

 

[otto]

But Otto, at least 2 of Lyrics loved ones were involved with Meth.

If Lyric was the target, why wasn`t she kidnapped near her home in Waterloo without the complication of taking Elizabeth ... and why Lyric rather than other siblings. It`s impossible. I don`t believe it for a minute and furthermore, there is not one single piece of evidence to support any wild theory that these two cousins were kidnapped for any reason whatsoever. The fact that they were kidnapped and have completely vanished without any demands for anything suggests to me that the perp is a pedophile and that they will never be seen again.

 

[GrainneDhu]

If Lyric was the target, why wasn`t she kidnapped near her home in Waterloo without the complication of taking Elizabeth ... and why Lyric rather than other siblings. It`s impossible. I don`t believe it for a minute and furthermore, there is not one single piece of evidence to support any wild theory that these two cousins were kidnapped for any reason whatsoever. The fact that they were kidnapped and have completely vanished without any demands for anything suggests to me that the perp is a pedophile and that they will never be seen again.

I would have considered it possible that Lyric was kidnapped to shut DM up except for the fact that DM decided to turn down the plea bargain the day before Lyric disappeared. Anyone who was unhappy about Dan testifying against them could breathe easy because he had already decided not to do so. Kidnapping his child would only inspire him to cooperate with LE and reveal everything he knows.

I think you're right about the girls being murdered by a pedophile. I just got done posting several examples of double abduction/murders by strangers, so it's not unheard of.

 

[otto]

I'm somehow not making myself clear. There are a lot of people who can be very close to a family without being a member of the family, regardless of who raised whom. Kids are abused by priests who are very trusted individuals. Did those kids and their families trust the priests? Yes. Did they really KNOW the priests. No. You can know who a person is, that person can even be close to you, and yet you may not know the 'true' person.

I'm not sure why you seem to think it can only be extended family, as I never used that phrase. IIRC, you are the first one to use that in response to one of my posts.

And please note that I have NEVER suggested the kids were kidnapped as drug collateral. I may have discussed it in response to others' posts, but I myself have not said that. It's fine if we disagree, but please don't put words in my mouth.

I really don't want to keep going back and forth about this, as it is obvious you do not agree with my theory and I'm not inclined to spend more time rehashing it. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not someone closed to the family is capable of kidnapping the girls.

Thanks.

I agree that evil people can have any type of profession or job.

 

[RNER]

If Lyric was the target, why wasn`t she kidnapped near her home in Waterloo without the complication of taking Elizabeth ... and why Lyric rather than other siblings. It`s impossible. I don`t believe it for a minute and furthermore, there is not one single piece of evidence to support any wild theory that these two cousins were kidnapped for any reason whatsoever. The fact that they were kidnapped and have completely vanished without any demands for anything suggests to me that the perp is a pedophile and that they will never be seen again.

I value your opinion because you have many years of experience behind you. With that being said, have you...

Seen many cases where 2 bigger girls were abducted by a random pedophile in the middle of the afternoon on a bike path, with (reported by LE)no signs of force, no witnesses, no evidence, no sightings, no person of interest, no suspicious vehicle, no motive, no amber alert, no potential threat to the rest of the community, ...

on the day after the father of one of the missing girls goes to court and changes his plea on serious felony meth/drug charges??????????

This is why I believe it was well-planned, well-executed by someone with power, money, access to many "players", and the abilty to intimidate potential witnesses from coming forward.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I value your opinion because you have many years of experience behind you. With that being said, have you...

Seen many cases where 2 bigger girls were abducted by a random pedophile in the middle of the afternoon on a bike path, with (reported by LE)no signs of force, no witnesses, no evidence, no sightings, no person of interest, no suspicious vehicle, no motive, no amber alert, no potential threat to the rest of the community, ...

on the day after the father of one of the missing girls goes to court and changes his plea on serious felony meth/drug charges??????????

This is why I believe it was well-planned, well-executed by someone with power, money, access to many "players", and the abilty to intimidate potential witnesses from coming forward.

DM changing his plea was GOOD news for anyone he may have been able to incriminate.

Lyric's disappearance was BAD news for anyone DM may have been able to incriminate because I'm sure he gave LE all sorts of interesting information. For instance, he probably had the numbers of bat phones used by meth dealers and customers in the area.

I'm certain that anyone with a sliver of brain left would be able to predict that with his child missing, DM would be in full cooperation mode with LE.

 

[RNER]

I would have considered it possible that Lyric was kidnapped to shut DM up except for the fact that DM decided to turn down the plea bargain the day before Lyric disappeared. Anyone who was unhappy about Dan testifying against them could breathe easy because he had already decided not to do so. Kidnapping his child would only inspire him to cooperate with LE and reveal everything he knows.

I think you're right about the girls being murdered by a pedophile. I just got done posting several examples of double abduction/murders by strangers, so it's not unheard of.

So by going to trial in attempt to prove his innocence, he won't implicate others? The prosecutors won't bring up his "associates" and their involvement while attempting to demonstrate his crimes?

By taking the plea, would he have had to "testify" against others?

 

[RNER]

DM changing his plea was GOOD news for anyone he may have been able to incriminate.

Lyric's disappearance was BAD news for anyone DM may have been able to incriminate because I'm sure he gave LE all sorts of interesting information. For instance, he probably had the numbers of bat phones used by meth dealers and customers in the area.

I'm certain that anyone with a sliver of brain left would be able to predict that with his child missing, DM would be in full cooperation mode with LE.

Guess I'm confused...

I was thinking that they might have taken the girls to keep him from talking in a trial because of the fear that the girls would be harmed or killed if he said too much.

Maybe the "abduction" was planned no matter what he decided to do in court the day before. IMOO...Either way would implicate others.

 

[SapphireSteel]

So by going to trial in attempt to prove his innocence, he won't implicate others? The prosecutors won't bring up his "associates" and their involvement while attempting to demonstrate his crimes?

By taking the plea, would he have had to "testify" against others?

Changing his plea from "guilty" (accepting the plea bargain) to "not guilty" (rejecting it) means that he feels he stands a good chance of being acquited at trial.

This confidence is apparently new.

I believe you are correct, in that a not guilty plea and a trial will in no way guarantee the safety or anonymity of any accomplices, in fact quite the opposite - they will probably be named and blamed as part of the defence.

Either way Dan is dangerous right now. It would make far, far more sense to just eliminate him before trial rather than faff around with two little girls, drawing the attention of the entire country and the FBI as well.

:cow: