IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

[cindersoot]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:ullhair:

I am Trying to remain calm.

When ever LE is in a massive undercover investigation they do not go around broadcasting it and posting it all over the in-ter-net. Other wise the criminals involved would know the FBI and other LE were on to them.

And people who have Relatives and other close friends who are LE do find out more information then just the average Joe/Jane.
And just because in you can't find it on the in-ter-net.... Doesn't mean it doesn't exists.
:deadhorse:

It is the small mindedness of America that sticks their head in the sand and that makes it harder to get funding and answers,
.
This is the same thing that happen way back before there was a Missing and Exploited Fondation and Website and all the other organization that are out there now,

People would say,

Doh, ah.......... NO they ain't Abducted there just lost or run off" I didn't hear it on MY radio or read it in MY newspaper therfore it ain't happening....

:ziplip:


I had put my self in a self imposed Time -out on this thread, and now it looks like I am going to have to do it again.

I am going, Nursebeeme :nurse: ... I am Going....:runaway:To the self imposed....Time Out / Naughty chair

I read your post many times over and I'm lost. Can you explain further?

 

[peeples]

I'm soo lost too

 

[elmomom]

SBM

I agree, GrainneDhu.

I know there is human trafficking, child *advertiser censored*, and all other kinds of vile things that take place. It is beyond despicable, without a doubt.

The idea about wealthy people all over the world purchasing children, who are supplied by people who abduct children just to fill this need, isn't anything I've seen documented in MSM. I've never seen anything to support the idea that this is a thriving "industry".

I think this is a story that has been circulated so widely that it has come to be accepted as truth.

If anyone has a link to a source where this specific "industry" (not human trafficking in general) is discussed, please post it here. TIA

I don't know if you know, but there is a whole thread here on WS devoted to the subject.
SPOTLIGHT CASE Human Trafficking Awareness Thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Marilynilpa]

I haven't been posting much either because it's become increasingly clear that what we DON'T know outweighs what we do.

In view of this and a lot of stuff that is pretty much still rumour yet "common knowledge" locally, any discussions we can have on WS are becoming kind of circular...by which I mean, we are chasing our tails.

Until LE releases some POI's, search warrants or other solid information we are pretty much reduced to discussing what sort of crockery they had on the Titanic... a mildly interesting detail but not really relevant in the bigger picture.

I have thought for a while that the case may be "solved" just not "proven" and I think C2 may be getting at the same thing.

It's clear that everyone genuinely cares about these two little girls and the frustration levels are high...especially in view of the lack of "progress" we perceive in the investigation. It doesn't mean there isn't any, however.

lease:

You're right about some of our "circular discussions", they seem to go over the same old ground. But I also find that each time a subject is revisited, someone will bring up something I hadn't considered before. JMO. But I have to admit to doing a lot more lurking when old topics are rehased.

I completely agree that this case may be solved but not proven, and I'm worried it may stay that way. I am so praying I'm wrong about that.lease:

I know we are all desperate for info, because we jump on each tidbit of information like a flock of ravenous seagulls. :banghead:

It's logical to assume LE/FBI/DCI knows waaaay more than we do. If not, they would be the most incompetent investigative agencies ever, IMO. They have at their disposal all videotapes capturing Lyric and Elizabeth on
that day; interviews with family, friends and witnesses; polygraph results; and scores of forensic reports. IMO

I hope no one leaves or goes on hiatus.

 

[Sunlight]

Maybe it is that darn pesky cctv camera. You can't put a square peg into a round hole. One and one is two. MOO

 

[Marilynilpa]

I don't know if you know, but there is a whole thread here on WS devoted to the subject.
SPOTLIGHT CASE Human Trafficking Awareness Thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thanks, I knew this thread existed but admit I haven't read everything on it.

So there are links on that thread to articles specifically discussing an industry supported by people abducting children to be sold to wealthy people, as opposed to people commenting on human trafficking in general?

I think I'll move on over to that thread for a while.

 

[nikb]

Maybe it is that darn pesky cctv camera. You can't put a square peg into a round hole. One and one is two. MOO

What do you mean? Other than the whole round hole/square peg thing, I've known that doesn't work too well most of my life. If you're able to say more without TOS issues I'd be really interested in hearing it.

 

[nikb]

In my experience living here in Iowa, people can't get into tanks that have been placed at public parks. All the hatches are welded shut.

That's what I figured, but thanks for confirming!

 

[Marilynilpa]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:ullhair:

I am Trying to remain calm.

When ever LE is in a massive undercover investigation they do not go around broadcasting it and posting it all over the in-ter-net. Other wise the criminals involved would know the FBI and other LE were on to them.

And people who have Relatives and other close friends who are LE do find out more information then just the average Joe/Jane.
And just because in you can't find it on the in-ter-net.... Doesn't mean it doesn't exists.
:deadhorse:

It is the small mindedness of America that sticks their head in the sand and that makes it harder to get funding and answers,
.
This is the same thing that happen way back before there was a Missing and Exploited Fondation and Website and all the other organization that are out there now,

People would say,

Doh, ah.......... NO they ain't Abducted there just lost or run off" I didn't hear it on MY radio or read it in MY newspaper therfore it ain't happening....

:ziplip:


I had put my self in a self imposed Time -out on this thread, and now it looks like I am going to have to do it again.

I am going, Nursebeeme :nurse: ... I am Going....:runaway:To the self imposed....Time Out / Naughty chair

Oh, no, I hope this isn't all over the human trafficking issue? I'm sorry, I am not certain exactly which posts or comments you are referring to.

I, for one, have never stuck my head in the sand and said that abducted children are just runaways. And I know there is human trafficking.

What I am not aware of is an official agency every reporting on an industry supported by the demand for children to be purchased by wealthy people worldwide. Nor am I aware of any children in this country being abducted for that specific purpose. I have seen that type of situation in movies and on t.v., and in books, but never have seen any government report discussing this "industry".

I know LE/FBI can't discuss ongoing investigations, but they have certainly spoken out on the human trafficking issue before, so I would expect them to be just as willing to discuss the "wealthy people buying children" industry.

But elmomom has provided me with a link to a thread here on WS where this type of industry is discussed, so I'm headed over that way to read up on it.

I know it must be frustrating to "know" things that aren't on the internet. But many of us question what can't be supported by empirical evidence, official reports, etc. Otherwise, how can you weed out urban legend from actual facts? I hope that if the shoe were on the other foot, and someone posted a comment stating that something takes place that you weren't aware of, you'd want some kind of link to support that comment.

Please don't take it as an attack on you. I, for one, enjoy your posts and would hate for you to put yourself in a time out.

 

[watcher9]

You're right about some of our "circular discussions", they seem to go over the same old ground. But I also find that each time a subject is revisited, someone will bring up something I hadn't considered before. JMO. But I have to admit to doing a lot more lurking when old topics are rehased.

I completely agree that this case may be solved but not proven, and I'm worried it may stay that way. I am so praying I'm wrong about that.lease:

I know we are all desperate for info, because we jump on each tidbit of information like a flock of ravenous seagulls. :banghead:

It's logical to assume LE/FBI/DCI knows waaaay more than we do. If not, they would be the most incompetent investigative agencies ever, IMO. They have at their disposal all videotapes capturing Lyric and Elizabeth on
that day; interviews with family, friends and witnesses; polygraph results; and scores of forensic reports. IMO

I hope no one leaves or goes on hiatus.

BBM
I love your post and agree completely, especially the bolded part because it is a perfect description of us.

 

[Marilynilpa]

BBM I could definitely see this scenario working! But playing devil's advocate, if they knew they had to be back pretty soon would this promise/story work? Shopping and eating out take awhile, even in a kid's mind, JMO. I'm still thinking about it, reasons it might work, because it seems possible.

I'm playing catch-up again today.

nikb, my thought is the abductor(s) assured the girls that he would straighten it out with Gma, or get Gma's approval. That's why I think the abductor was well enough known to at least one of the girls that she didn't question his ability to do that. JMO

 

[nikb]

I'm playing catch-up again today.

nikb, my thought is the abductor(s) assured the girls that he would straighten it out with Gma, or get Gma's approval. That's why I think the abductor was well enough known to at least one of the girls that she didn't question his ability to do that. JMO

Thanks for the reply! That makes sense to me. GrainneDhu suggested something similar as well. I feel so "sure" of very few things in this case, but one thing I've held onto from early on is if it wasn't an accident, it was someone they knew and likely knew fairly well or at least well enough to trust the person/persons. All IMO of course.

 

[looks like rain]

Thanks, I knew this thread existed but admit I haven't read everything on it.

So there are links on that thread to articles specifically discussing an industry supported by people abducting children to be sold to wealthy people, as opposed to people commenting on human trafficking in general?

I think I'll move on over to that thread for a while.

I think that if you, or anyone else for that matter, have read up on the Penn State scandal with Jerry Sandusksy, you may change your opinion about wealthy people's sick perversions.

 

[Jax49]

I think that if you, or anyone else for that matter, have read up on the Penn State scandal with Jerry Sandusksy, you may change your opinion about wealthy people's sick perversions.

Speaking of Sandusky

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...d*-ring_n_1900800.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

The New York Daily News reports that on Monday, Greg Bucceroni, a self-described former child prostitute, sent an email to officials at Poly Prep Country Day School in Brooklyn.
In the message, Bucceroni said he was associated with a child sex ring that included Sandusky and former Poly Prep football coach Phil Foglietta. The email said that, in 1979, Bucceroni was originally expected to have sex with Sandusky, but, because of time constraints, he was introduced to Foglietta instead.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I think that if you, or anyone else for that matter, have read up on the Penn State scandal with Jerry Sandusksy, you may change your opinion about wealthy people's sick perversions.

I have read extensively about Jerry Sandusky - I live in Pittsburgh and know people involved in the case.

Where, pray tell, was it ever said that Jerry Sandusky ever purchased a child who was abducted in the U.S. from a person whose job it is to kidnap said child for wealthy people worldwide? That case involves child sexual abuse, not alleged sexual trafficking of children to wealthy people worldwide.

I think some of you are missing the point. The topic is not child sexual abuse. At no time have I stated that human trafficking does not occur. Obviously it does, it has been well-documented.

What I question is the undocumented assertion that there is an industry that involves kidnapping children in the U.S. to be sold to wealthy customers worldwide. I have read about such things occurring in other, usually third-world, countries. I've seen it on t.v. and read it in books. But I have never, ever read a report or heard an FBI or LE official state that a child missing from the U.S. may have been taken by someone intending to sell him/her to a wealthy person in this or any other country.

I'm sorry that some of you have taken this to mean an attack on the fact that human trafficking exists. IMO there is no doubt of that. It was just the specific assertion that a certain "industry" exists in the U.S. that I questioned.

IMO, Lyric and Elizabeth were not abducted to be sold into prostitution or sold to a wealthy couple.

 

[Sunlight]

The only think I'd like to say about the pedophile or any other kind of sex "rings" is that being wealthy does not a pervert make. If someone is raping children or adults, it is the mind of the person that is the issue. Wealth, OTOH, can certainly facilitate obtaining your victims, and there is apparently a market out there that is being fulfilled by people willing to abduct other people to make money. Perverse behavior exists in all financial levels of human beings all over the world. MOO

ETA: Wealthy perverts that can afford to put in an order for a particular type of victim would probably take advantage of that ability. I say probably, because I have no knowledge of any specific situation..but it is just logical.

 

[looks like rain]

I have read extensively about Jerry Sandusky - I live in Pittsburgh and know people involved in the case.

Where, pray tell, was it ever said that Jerry Sandusky ever purchased a child who was abducted in the U.S. from a person whose job it is to kidnap said child for wealthy people worldwide? That case involves child sexual abuse, not alleged sexual trafficking of children to wealthy people worldwide.

I think some of you are missing the point. The topic is not child sexual abuse. At no time have I stated that human trafficking does not occur. Obviously it does, it has been well-documented.

What I question is the undocumented assertion that there is an industry that involves kidnapping children in the U.S. to be sold to wealthy customers worldwide. I have read about such things occurring in other, usually third-world, countries. I've seen it on t.v. and read it in books. But I have never, ever read a report or heard an FBI or LE official state that a child missing from the U.S. may have been taken by someone intending to sell him/her to a wealthy person in this or any other country.

I'm sorry that some of you have taken this to mean an attack on the fact that human trafficking exists. IMO there is no doubt of that. It was just the specific assertion that a certain "industry" exists in the U.S. that I questioned.

IMO, Lyric and Elizabeth were not abducted to be sold into prostitution or sold to a wealthy couple.

I just wanted it to be known that these innocent young boys and girls are in high demand by some of these wealthy and influential people. JMO!

 

[Jax49]

Mass hysteria, anyone? A man spoke to two girls and it makes the paper.

http://whotv.com/2012/09/20/stranger-danger-afton-police-seeking-man/

Police are asking for the public’s help to identify a stranger who confronted two girls in Afton Wednesday afternoon.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I just wanted it to be known that these innocent young boys and girls are in high demand by some of these wealthy and influential people. JMO!

I understand your point, and I agree that they can be in high demand by poor perverts and rich perverts and all other kinds of perverts.

But that is different, IMO, from the alleged industry in which people in the U.S. make a living by kidnapping a child specifically for the purpose of selling him/her to a wealthy couple.

That is why I find that scenario highly unlikely in the case of Lyric and Elizabeth. JMO

 

[looks like rain]

I understand your point, and I agree that they can be in high demand by poor perverts and rich perverts and all other kinds of perverts.

But that is different, IMO, from the alleged industry in which people in the U.S. make a living by kidnapping a child specifically for the purpose of selling him/her to a wealthy couple.

That is why I find that scenario highly unlikely in the case of Lyric and Elizabeth. JMO

I am just trying to figure out how all these children just seem to disappear and we can't get them back. I told my husband if I ever hit the lottery I am quitting my job and I will devote all my time on the active parts of looking for missing children. That is my goal!