IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[otto]

My feeling is that the perp(s) didn't care whether the bodies were found or not. JMO. That fits in with my theory that the abduction/murder of these two little girls was a means to an end, not necessarily sexual in nature. Once the desired end was achieved, I feel the perp(s) didn't care one way or the other what happened.

This is based on nothing said by LE, or in MSM, or even (heaven forbid) stated on NG or JVM. Just my opinion and subject to change without notice!

If he didn't care, they would have been left in the ditch next to the dead end road, not in a depression next to a desolate spot near the river.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Someone asked about checking the jail. Yes, I try to a couple of times a day & I know another person too that does often. I don't know enough people other than what I've learned on the "streets" of fb & the scanner thread.

If arrested and taken to Bremer, it takes you to Vinelink. You need a name to search...

 

[joerose]

This is really disturbing. Especially the part that says he "Narc'd" other people out to reduce his sentence from 45 yrs to 10. That and the part where he broke his wife's finger. I can't help feeling that the girls missing and death is by the hands of someone he Narc'd on.
My opinion only. I have no information or facts other than this to back up my thoughts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/lyric-cook-morrissey-elizabeth-collins_n_1710467.html

 

[m1279]

I participated in a vigil tonight in Des Moines for the girls....my heart is just sick. I don't even know what else to say

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...irls/-/9357080/17701716/-/vmy5ot/-/index.html

 

[otto]

Someone posted an article on the Jessica Ridgeway forum about perps starting out with victims that live close to home and then moving outward, finding victims further and further away from home. In terms of bodies, I wouldn't be surprised if the first body is left far away from home and the last body is closer to home, simply because there would be a comfort zone of being invincible that would make the perp increasingly careless.

This looks to me like a close to home abduction and a far away crime scene ... not perfect, but sophisticated in organization and staging, deception. The person that did this must be smug. This person has done something similar before. He was unavailable from noon on July 13 until late that night. No one starts with abducting two children, leaving their bikes in such a confusing circumstance and leaving their bodies in such a remote location. There has to be a history of abnormal behavior that someone noticed ... injured animals, comments that degrade, business in Evansdale on the morning of July 13, knows the backroads,

 

[otto]

I participated in a vigil tonight in Des Moines for the girls....my heart is just sick. I don't even know what else to say

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...irls/-/9357080/17701716/-/vmy5ot/-/index.html

"Investigators are collecting evidence throughout the weekend at a park where the girls' bodies were found, and they said determining the exact cause of death could take some time."

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io.../17701716/-/vmy5ot/-/index.html#ixzz2EWZpHTmx

 

[Marilynilpa]

If he didn't care, they would have been left in the ditch next to the dead end road, not in a depression next to a desolate spot near the river.

I was stating my opinion based on my theory of what happened. I feel the perp(s) knew this to be a remote enough area that the murders would not be interrupted or seen by others. Such would not be the case if the girls had been killed at the dead end road then dumped in a ditch, IMO.

Unlike many of you, I am operating on the assumption that this was not just a dump site, it's the murder site. I know that people are speculating that the rather quick identification of the bodies means they were recently placed in that location. That may well turn out to be the case, but so far LE hasn't stated that one way or another.

Once actual facts are known, then I may have to rethink my theory. But at this point, I think my theory is as valid as refrigeration, feral pigs, etc.

 

[cindersoot]

Perhaps he killed them at different times. Thus the reason for the body placement.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Abben said in the last presser that they would be at 7 Bridges combing it at least until Monday before would reopen it. Also he said they would send the reporters updates via emails. I'll be watching twitter when I can.

Hopefully there will be an arrest over this weekend with a Monday update. (I know, I know).

Caylee's site took 8 days before release. fyi (someone asked earlier)

 

[otto]

About Lyric's father:

"He has come under intense scrutiny from law enforcement officials because of his ties to the region's methamphetamine trade, but authorities have said he is not considered a suspect."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-case-nears-homicide-classification?Frontpage

... clears that up

 

[callyn]

I know this is probably a dumb question, but I'm wondering why the sheet looking things (assumed to be covering the spots where the bodies were found) in the photos are uniform in shape. They are both shaped the same way and aren't a regular square or a rectangle. They are more like pentagons with three sides of uniform length and two sides that sort of angle up together, not quite to a point but sorta! Atleast that's what they look like to me. I actually don't have the photos right in front of me now and am pulling from my memory from looking at the photos earlier today. Maybe the "tops" are flat or maybe more like a point. I'm not sure. Just wondering why they aren't more regular in shape. They don't look like sheets or tarps. To me they look like wraps. I know the bodies were probably removed before these were put out, but they actually almost look body shaped to me.

Maybe they are staked to the ground, but the shape is just weird to me.

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, I simply can't go back and read all of the posts.

I wonder if the aerial photos were taken before the bodies were removed and they held off publishing til the next day. Perhaps LE asked them to hold off until the area was better secured. :moo:

 

[B4igo2it]

There's farmland on each side of the road leading back to 7 Bridges. Were workers brought in to farm that land? Did they see anyone coming and going while there?

I just thought to add them to the hunters & people fishing there who might remember something.

jmo

Yes, yes, yes! Harvest finished not too long ago. If there are corn fields along 270 (the rural road) which I believe there were; farmers may have noticed traffic.
Everyone knows everyone in these rural areas (they really do). This link shows the road and fields along County Rd 270. (I grew up an hour or so north of this area ... the real "farmville" :blushing: )

http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/us...pg.html?&_suid=135502716836608267861103471596

Also, this is an awesome source of all information related to this case from beginning to now. Amanda does awesome work!!!

 

[cindersoot]

About Lyric's father:

"He has come under intense scrutiny from law enforcement officials because of his ties to the region's methamphetamine trade, but authorities have said he is not considered a suspect."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-case-nears-homicide-classification?Frontpage

... clears that up

I know, I wish people who stop with the meth stuff and drug dealers and on and on. It is more likely a child molestor, they are everywhere. Not being snarky, jmo.

 

[otto]

I was stating my opinion based on my theory of what happened. I feel the perp(s) knew this to be a remote enough area that the murders would not be interrupted or seen by others. Such would not be the case if the girls had been killed at the dead end road then dumped in a ditch, IMO.

Unlike many of you, I am operating on the assumption that this was not just a dump site, it's the murder site. I know that people are speculating that the rather quick identification of the bodies means they were recently placed in that location. That may well turn out to be the case, but so far LE hasn't stated that one way or another.

Once actual facts are known, then I may have to rethink my theory. But at this point, I think my theory is as valid as refrigeration, feral pigs, etc.

I would tend to agree ... if we ignore the comments by Jane Mitchell, we are left with the understanding that they were abducted in Evansdale at noon and taken directly to that location. There is no other crime scene yet. The risk of getting caught must increase exponentially if the perp keeps the victims for any length of time. I would think that it would be better so avoid association with the abduction/murder by being available later on July 13 ... unless this is a secluded freak ... always a possibility ... but it would be a weirdo that should be noticed by the neighbors.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

So my two cents for what it's worth:

- The girls supposedly never rode so far as the lake. So either it was that one time and just bad, bad timing, or someone convinced them to head up that way.

Is the lake the kind of place where kids would often go? In other words, is it the type of place a perp would pick to look for kids? Or was it someone riding around in their car who spotted them then followed them to see where they would end up? Or was it someone known to them who was able to convince them to go there because the girls didn't find him threatening?

- There's a reason your parents and teachers told you to use the buddy system. If one person is in trouble (lost, hurt, etc.) the other person can yell or go for help. Face it, it's much more difficult to abduct 2 girls than one. This person was confident enough to attempt it. Why? Because he has done something similar before? Or because he had a weapon to force their compliance? Or again, because he is someone they would have trusted or seen as non-threatening

- Who would have been non-threatening to the girls? Someone young, possibly. Someone known to them. Someone extroverted and intelligent who could concoct a reasonable story to convince them to go with him, maybe. Someone in a position of authority in the community (police officer, teacher, fireman, city worker, minister or youth leader, etc.) OR someone who only claimed to be in such a position.

Other things I think about:

The bodies were not buried, or if so only very shallowly, and left in a public (albeit isolated) place.

This person must have had a vehicle or access to one. Somehow, his unaccounted for time on that day hasn't drawn suspicion (that we know of.) Why? Because he lives too far away for anyone to assume he'd be involved? Because he is unemployed or a student? Because he is someone without "banker's hours" (salesman, farmer, self employed, etc.)

I think he knows the area. He must. Look at the route he would have taken to go anywhere away from Meyers Lake with TWO girls and not be seen (unless he lives very, very close to the lake.) That's quite a risk. Like others have said, Seven Bridges Park is not the type of place you just happen across and there are more than enough isolated places he would have passed on the way there, no matter where he was coming from.

Only from what we know, I see no remorse at all. I haven't heard they were covered in any way (although if they were, perhaps that is a detail that the police would hold back) and the girls were not found too close together.

 

[cindersoot]

I wonder if the aerial photos were taken before the bodies were removed and they held off publishing til the next day. Perhaps LE asked them to hold off until the area was better secured. :moo:

Interesting, I never thought of that, you very well could be right.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Autopsies of the bodies believed to be two missing Evansdale girls were completed Friday, but investigators remained hushed about what medical examiners found or how it could help police identify suspects.

http://dmjuice.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121208/NEWS/312080030/1001/NEWS

I know this has been posted earlier, but I wanted to make sure no one overlooked it.

It seems that the autopsies were finished very quickly. I hope that means the bodies were in good enough condition that a cause of death could be determined.

Lyric and Lizzie are gone, and it's tough to talk about them in terms of autopsies and cause of death. But it is what it is, and I know the families need some answers. I hope there is evidence found over the weekend that will shed some light on what happened to these little girls.

I personally don't care if my entire theory is proven to be nothing but BS - I just want to see justice for these two girls.

 

[MotherOcean]

I was stating my opinion based on my theory of what happened. I feel the perp(s) knew this to be a remote enough area that the murders would not be interrupted or seen by others. Such would not be the case if the girls had been killed at the dead end road then dumped in a ditch, IMO.

Unlike many of you, I am operating on the assumption that this was not just a dump site, it's the murder site. I know that people are speculating that the rather quick identification of the bodies means they were recently placed in that location. That may well turn out to be the case, but so far LE hasn't stated that one way or another.

Once actual facts are known, then I may have to rethink my theory. But at this point, I think my theory is as valid as refrigeration, feral pigs, etc.

Right now, it makes the most sense to me to think that he/she/they abducted the girls, took them to this place, and murdered them right there where they were found. I know LE has said "bodies" and not "remains" and I know they said they are looking for the crime scene (i.e., where the girls were killed) but right now, I'm still thinking they were taken to be murdered, it happened quickly (maybe as late as that night, but by the next day), and they were left where they died. I think it was all planned out before the abduction.

 

[cindersoot]

Autopsies of the bodies believed to be two missing Evansdale girls were completed Friday, but investigators remained hushed about what medical examiners found or how it could help police identify suspects.

http://dmjuice.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121208/NEWS/312080030/1001/NEWS

I know this has been posted earlier, but I wanted to make sure no one overlooked it.

It seems that the autopsies were finished very quickly. I hope that means the bodies were in good enough condition that a cause of death could be determined.

Lyric and Lizzie are gone, and it's tough to talk about them in terms of autopsies and cause of death. But it is what it is, and I know the families need some answers. I hope there is evidence found over the weekend that will shed some light on what happened to these little girls.

I personally don't care if my entire theory is proven to be nothing but BS - I just want to see justice for these two girls.

With the autopsy done so quickly, doesn't that tell us that it was not skeletal or remains, but a body? Just wondering. Thoughts

 

[otto]

Perhaps he killed them at different times. Thus the reason for the body placement.

I would have to agree. I suspect that he restrained and separated them ... then told each of them to let the other know that she was okay ... then killed them one after the other. He had to control them to the last minute to avoid getting caught. If he wanted to get caught, he would not have hidden the bodies. If he wanted to get caught, it would not have taken 5 months to find them ... by fluke.

Killed while standing in the place where they were found ... I highly doubt it.