IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[MotherOcean]

It looks like small graves, maybe shallow graves.

Yes, that's what they look like to me, too. They look like a covering over shallow graves. When the picture is enlarged on my screen I can see a space, or atleast what appears to be a space, between the covering and the ground. I thought that may explain the shape of the white things. But, I know nothing about forensics and even that is too much for me.

 

[Progressforward]

What is nh3?

Anhydrous ammonia is a liquid fertilizer injected into the ground in the fall to ground that will be planted to corn the next spring.

 

[borndem]

My theory - apologies I'm one coffee in...

They were taken by someone they knew and trusted
It was very well organised and planned (apart from this last dumping)
They were alive for the last 100 or so days
The 110 house sweep 45 days ago caused someone to panic and kill them
The motive was not sexual for the perp, although such may have occured as a side effect. The motive is something other than sexual.
There is more than one perp.
He is local.
He is familiar with the dump site OR the accomplice (s) who did the dumping was
He is local...I'm saying Waterloo.
He has a criminal history - a long one
He is in his 30s or 40s (this is no Austin Sigg) but his accomplices may be plural, and much younger and/or female and heavily under his influence for some reason.
This is an execution style murder rather than a violent assault murder - I doubt the girls were physically harmed in any way other than their final moment.
The girls were walked in separately and executed by two different perps.

All my opinion only based on what we know so far and it could change any time some new detail comes to light.

It makes me sick to think they may have died at the hands of someone they trusted, but maybe they never knew or suspected a thing. Maybe they were on a fun secret holiday in their minds, right up until the last second. :sick:

Sounds as reasonable as anything I could put together, Steel. I'll certainly buy the alive for the last 100 or so days. I hope you're right about the whole thing as a lark for them -- it would make it somehow easier to think about for the sake of the little girls. What would be the motive?

I'm thinking crime of opportunity -- wrong place wrong time sort of thing unless it was a "drug burn" or similar retaliation... But it seems to me that if it were a retaliation, I don't think they would have been away, so to speak, for as long as they were.

As to lag time in our times of day -- what is your time in relation to GMT? IOW, what is the time differential between your part of the world and ours?

 

[TeenyTaurus]

What is nh3?

Um, in what context? (I'm sure I missed something there). It's a gas used in making fertilizer, refrigerants, solvents... in short, ammonia and water, containing ammonium hydroxide. Why?

I have severe lag <lol> In fact, on both the computer and my brain today.

 

[Progressforward]

Did they mention NH3 in relation to the girls?

ETA: If they did, you may be interested in knowing that anhydrous ammonia (NH3) is used in making meth.

No mention by LE about nh3. I was talking about the fields on either side of the entrance to the park. I was observing that there was fall tillage done, but I don't believe nh3 had been applied....I couldn't see the tracks in the field that would be left after applying. This was applicable because someone had asked how many workers would have been needed to take the crops out. I observed that tillage was finished....but nh3 didn't look like it had been applied.

 

[otto]

Yes, that's what they look like to me, too. They look like a covering over shallow graves. When the picture is enlarged on my screen I can see a space, or atleast what appears to be a space, between the covering and the ground. I thought that may explain the shape of the white things. But, I know nothing about forensics and even that is too much for me.

I'm just looking at scale, or relationships. I'm assuming the three guys are about 6 feet tall ... so when I look at the white sheets, I see something about 4-5 feet long.

 

[dadgum]

What is nh3?

Ammonia..I think..

 

[otto]

No mention by LE about nh3. I was talking about the fields on either side of the entrance to the park. I was observing that there was fall tillage done, but I don't believe nh3 had been applied....I couldn't see the tracks in the field that would be left after applying. This was applicable because someone had asked how many workers would have been needed to take the crops out. I observed that tillage was finished....but nh3 didn't look like it had been applied.

Why is it applied to the fields? What is the result? Thanks for your patience ... I know nothing about this.

 

[MotherOcean]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-case-nears-homicide-classification?Frontpage

Thompson said the bodies would have been hard for anyone to spot.

“Even the hunters, if they had gone 5 feet in either direction, would not have found those bodies,” he told the AP. ( Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson told the Associated Press on Friday.)

It is gettng confusing. Posted for clarity my own include

That ^^ coupled with what I think is an odd shape (not a square, not a rectangle) to the white coverings makes me think the bodies were buried. Not deeply, but buried. If the bodies were buried then I can see how the hunters may not have seen them if they were 5 feet away, but if they were laying on top of the ground then no... I don't see how they could have been overlooked from even much further than 5 feet. I know there is grass/brush, but still, I think it wouldn't have been enough to hide them. Hunters are observant!! They are not going to miss a body that is laying on the ground that is even much further than 5 feet away. MOO.

 

[Squeeze]

I'm pretty sure the chief deputy did not say that. I believe the five feet in either direction comment came from a DNR or county park official who was interviewed later on by local news. It keeps getting attributed to different people, so it is confusing.

It came from black hawk county sheriff Tony Thompson, rick abbens's boss.

But this has been clarified, sorry!

 

[dadgum]

Lol..it must have posted when I came back in from the barn. Sorry about that!

 

[Mustang Sally]

Snipped..

In temperate climates, the body can become completely skeletonized in 30--40 days; in cooler climates, it may take approx. 128 days. Decomposition starts as soon as 4 minutes after the body dies, according to the info in the article in the link below.

from
http://www.sgm.ac.uk/pubs/micro_today/pdf/110108.pdf

Be warned -- this is quite graphic & contains a few very graphic pics of decomposing human remains.

Hmmmm. So what did happen?? And will we ever know??

A very interesting read....

"Wecome Back To Websleuths.." Dr. Arpad A. Vass of Oak Ridge National Laboratory!

Those of you will remember him as "a very interesting person" who testified for the prosecution at Caylee Anthony's trial.

Praying that LE will soon be able to give us answers as to... Who?, What?, When? Where? & How?

Dear God..Please Give Strength to the Families of Your New Angels...Elizabeth and Lyric!

 

[tlcya]

A very interesting read....

"Wecome Back To Websleuths.." Dr. Arpad A. Vass of Oak Ridge National Laboratory!

Those of you will remember him as "a very interesting person" who testified for the prosecution at Caylee Anthony's trial.

Praying that LE will soon be able to give us answers as to... Who?, What?, When? Where? & How?

Dear God..Please Give Strength to the Families of Your New Angels...Elizabeth and Lyric!

Sally, so glad to have you with us on this thread, and yes, I most certainly do remember this unusual person

 

[danzn16]

I wonder why the perp would place them a distance apart? I would think that would make them 2x more likely to be found. Putting them together, one would have to stumble upon the one site. Not have 2 sites to stumble upon. Weird.

 

[WideOpen]

I was speculating in an earlier post today as to if there was any basis in fact to whether LE believed or stated that the girls could have been kept alive all this time. I found this came from FBI comment on 7/21 but could not find much after that or anything to expand on that.

For those of you following this case closely you have probably noted this previously but I am responding to my own questions for the most part.

FWIW...

The FBI has told the family of missing Iowa girls, Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins, that they believe the girls may be alive. 7/22/2012

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/07/2...and-elizabeth-collins-plead-for-their-return/


&#8220;We&#8217;ll leave no stone left unturned. There&#8217;s no reason to believe a resolution to the case won&#8217;t happen to bring the girls back,&#8221; Smock said. He also clarified FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault&#8217;s July 21 statement that &#8220;We believe the girls are alive.&#8221; Smock said investigators have no information to prove or disprove they are alive. 8/22/2012

http://thegazette.com/2012/08/22/fa...ll-urgently-searching-for-missing-iowa-girls/


Missing Iowa cousins, 10-year-old Lyric Cook and 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins, are believed to be alive, FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault announced Saturday. 7/23/2012

&#8220;We believe the girls are alive and we are not discouraged by the passage of time since their disappearance,&#8221; she said.

The FBI would not reveal why they believe the missing girls are still alive, but announced that investigators are going to expand their search beyond Iowa.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/23/fbi-believes-missing-iowa-cousins-are-alive


That search ended midday Friday and by the end of the night authorities had reclassified the girls disappearance as an abduction. Saturday, officials said they believed the cousins were still alive.

On Sunday, Breault said she couldn&#8217;t say what led them to that conclusion, but said they were still confident in that assertion.7/22/2012

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

jmo

 

[TeenyTaurus]

Why is it applied to the fields? What is the result? Thanks for your patience ... I know nothing about this.

This might help you, otto, in relation to fertilizer applications on the fields...
http://farmprogress.com/story-key-points-for-fall-application-of-nh3-0-4853

 

[Squeeze]

I cant tell from the pictures. Exactly where in the park were the girls found? Northwest??

 

[Progressforward]

Why is it applied to the fields? What is the result? Thanks for your patience ... I know nothing about this.

Anhydrous is injected into the field with an implement called an anhydrous applicator, it's not applied on top like dry manure with a manure spreader. Anhydrous is nitrogen fertilizer used for corn growth. The result is better production yields. (Ask all you want....I don't know forensics but I do understanding farming

 

[roseofsharon]

I wonder why the perp would place them a distance apart? I would think that would make them 2x more likely to be found. Putting them together, one would have to stumble upon the one site. Not have 2 sites to stumble upon. Weird.

It pains me greatly to say this, but possibly when the perp left the scene, one of the girls was still alive and tried to go for help. Just my own thoughts on this aspect, ugh!

 

[Confusion]

No mention by LE about nh3. I was talking about the fields on either side of the entrance to the park. I was observing that there was fall tillage done, but I don't believe nh3 had been applied....I couldn't see the tracks in the field that would be left after applying. This was applicable because someone had asked how many workers would have been needed to take the crops out. I observed that tillage was finished....but nh3 didn't look like it had been applied.

Thanks. I guess I end up missing a post here and there when I go back and forth between threads.

I wonder why the perp would place them a distance apart? I would think that would make them 2x more likely to be found. Putting them together, one would have to stumble upon the one site. Not have 2 sites to stumble upon. Weird.

I would think it might be because 2 of them together would flatten out much grass in one spot and make them more obvious, but there could be other reasons.