IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[Ms Pragmatic]

Sorry if you took any offense to my post, Grainne. My 2 1/2 yr old cousin was murdered by a meth addict in 2006. James "jimbo" Davis slammed Dakota Matthew Cofer into a wall, caving in a part of his skull and leaving a hole in the wall. Jimbo would have never done this without a meth addiction, but that makes it no easier to forgive. I don't like meth. Or what it does to people.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Ok, y'all are going to hate me for this, but... The bodies were found near Dunkerton. Wasn't TG from Dunkerton? (Ducking for cover)

 

[GrainneDhu]

Sorry if you took any offense to my post, Grainne. My 2 1/2 yr old cousin was murdered by a meth addict in 2006. James "jimbo" Davis slammed Dakota Matthew Cofer into a wall, caving in a part of his skull and leaving a hole in the wall. Jimbo would have never done this without a meth addiction, but that makes it no easier to forgive. I don't like meth. Or what it does to people.

No, I didn't take any offence and I'm sorry if I somehow worded something mistakenly so that it sounded like I was offended. Because I wasn't. If you see what I mean.

I am so sorry about your cousin, that is just unspeakable.

My stepson came to me with a meth addiction and it was a rough ride, that's for sure. Fortunately, he has been sober for nearly 10 years now and is doing well.

Parenting (I assume the man who killed him was either his father or was taking care of him) can be difficult for people with normal coping skills and no substance abuse problems at all. I've talked to many parents who found themselves doing something like raising their voice to their toddler that they would have sworn they would never do but something inhibits them from doing anything truly awful. Add in meth and it can turn from difficult to deadly.

 

[Lava]

Your url didn't lead anywhere but it might be something weird with my computer. I'll have my husband check it for me when he wakes up.

I may not be explaining it right (I'm just a high school graduate, not an expert in anything except maybe dog training). What I'm trying to say is that, based solely on my own life experience, taking meth doesn't turn someone into a pedophile if they didn't already have that particular inclination. It also makes people a lot more likely to go "hey, why not" to ideas that are really, really stupid (like carsurfing).

It seems to me that meth intensifies the user's behaviour but it doesn't make them do anything that they would normally find completely unthinkable. If they normally had a good relationship with their mother, for instance, meth won't make a person break into the mother's house at night to kill her. It might make someone who was angry with their mother do so, though.

Of course, this could all be biased from being based on my small sample population, which is made up of people I know who got caught by meth.

Oh no, it is my understanding and personal experience, that Meth does change personality - and greatly. Meth wears down on your mind, and the things that meant a lot to you no longer do. My own sister sent both her parents to the hospital in a night of rage and aggressiveness. She loved my mother, but in those moments she didn't care. She had no sense of "This is wrong". Meth causes paranoia and aggressiveness, so it would be very difficult to keep up a good relationship with someone on a long term basis. And once they are there homicidal thoughts could creep up - and it could happen pretty quickly. Through some research I did a while back and I did learn that Meth thins the line between right and wrong to the point where the user can't really understand something is wrong - versus a choice they are making. And then they start to enjoy what they are doing.

 

[tlcya]

I don't see any incline where the two white sheets are but that may be my vision impairment.

I wouldn't use an ATV to place the bodies in that area because ATVs break down the weeds and grasses, leave a huge, honkin' obvious trail. When people walk through that waist high brush, it bends over for awhile and then springs back up. No trail after a couple hours.

In the photo we have all been looking at of the scene, the white sheet looking things would seem to be the body locations. The officers are standing in the high, grassy seeming area, between the bodies. To the left of bodies and LEOs (closer to the river) appears to be more elevated and not grassy. That area also seems to be sandy or silty with little to no growth.

I am not proposing the perp(s) drove the ATV(s) in the high grassy area where the bodies and LEOs are, but in the sandy/silty area and then rolled the bodies from atop that what I perceive to be rise and gravity took the bodies to where they are now, into the grassy overgrowth area.

I wish I had otto's mapping and illustrating skills so I could better show the route I think a perp on ATV would take, where the logical stop would be. I don't think I am explaining well.

 

[enzeder]

Someone posted an article on the Jessica Ridgeway forum about perps starting out with victims that live close to home and then moving outward, finding victims further and further away from home. In terms of bodies, I wouldn't be surprised if the first body is left far away from home and the last body is closer to home, simply because there would be a comfort zone of being invincible that would make the perp increasingly careless.

This looks to me like a close to home abduction and a far away crime scene ... not perfect, but sophisticated in organization and staging, deception. The person that did this must be smug. This person has done something similar before. He was unavailable from noon on July 13 until late that night. No one starts with abducting two children, leaving their bikes in such a confusing circumstance and leaving their bodies in such a remote location. There has to be a history of abnormal behavior that someone noticed ... injured animals, comments that degrade, business in Evansdale on the morning of July 13, knows the backroads,

BBM

Here's the article about ‘awareness space’. Not sure if this is the article that you were referring to?.

When it actually comes to solving child abduction murder cases, the research suggests that the two most important elements, barring an eyewitness to some portion of the crime, is determining the relationship between the murderer and the victim and examining the murderer’s “awareness space.”

A person’s, including a criminal’s, awareness space is centered around those locations that are most important to them, starting with their home and including other locations such as work, a friend’s house, the primary stores where they shop, favorite walking paths, etc. It is also composed of the transportation corridors used to connect those locations to one another.

Read more: http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html

 

[trigger]

Trying to catch up...but I wonder if the suspect got spooked when he read the letter the parents wrote to the kidnapper...Be a hero. I'm trying to find it but no luck.

 

[carbuff]

One of the wild cards in the various comfort space theories is that there can be other not-obvious places the murderer is familiar with -- things like a favorite jogging place that is nowhere near the rest of his life, or the home where he grew up in a town 60 miles away, or his grandmother's house. The serial killer we had in our area -- assuming the police have arrested the right man -- grew up on the farm where two of the bodies were found, and came to this area to dispose of the bodies, even though he hadn't lived here since he was about 12. He lived in a rural area quite a bit north of here, drove 30 miles into the nearest large city to pick up streetwalkers, and drove another 20 miles or so to leave them.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Sadly, we're in for another drought year next year. We've had relatively warm, dry weather so far this winter which presages a hot, dry summer. Plus my neighbour, who is a weather witch and quite accurate, is getting ready to put in drought resistant corn next year.

If anyone can spare a prayer or good thought for the Iowa farmer, it will be much appreciated.

Same thing here in South Dakota. I can count on one hand the times it rained this year until we got snow, In the last 3 days we now have a foot of snow but that's only about one inch of rain. Long term drought expected here.

 

[enzeder]

Trying to catch up...but I wonder if the suspect got spooked when he read the letter the parents wrote to the kidnapper...Be a hero. I'm trying to find it but no luck.

Letter to the kidnapper of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_794abf88-2d0b-11e2-affd-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[danzn16]

In the photo we have all been looking at of the scene, the white sheet looking things would seem to be the body locations. The officers are standing in the high, grassy seeming area, between the bodies. To the left of bodies and LEOs (closer to the river) appears to be more elevated and not grassy. That area also seems to be sandy or silty with little to no growth.

I am not proposing the perp(s) drove the ATV(s) in the high grassy area where the bodies and LEOs are, but in the sandy/silty area and then rolled the bodies from atop that what I perceive to be rise and gravity took the bodies to where they are now, into the grassy overgrowth area.

I wish I had otto's mapping and illustrating skills so I could better show the route I think a perp on ATV would take, where the logical stop would be. I don't think I am explaining well.

The body locations appear placed to me not rolled. I don't think they would roll that far with that not very steep wouldn't even call it a hill and then factor in all tv growth slowing down any rolling. Had to be placed there to be in such overgrowth IMO

 

[carbuff]

I don't see any incline where the two white sheets are but that may be my vision impairment.

I wouldn't use an ATV to place the bodies in that area because ATVs break down the weeds and grasses, leave a huge, honkin' obvious trail. When people walk through that waist high brush, it bends over for awhile and then springs back up. No trail after a couple hours.

Okay, now I'm wondering whether that irregularity in the contours that some people are saying looks like a ditch is the track left when an ATV knocked down a path across the open space.

 

[GrainneDhu]

In the photo we have all been looking at of the scene, the white sheet looking things would seem to be the body locations. The officers are standing in the high, grassy seeming area, between the bodies. To the left of bodies and LEOs (closer to the river) appears to be more elevated and not grassy. That area also seems to be sandy or silty with little to no growth.

I am not proposing the perp(s) drove the ATV(s) in the high grassy area where the bodies and LEOs are, but in the sandy/silty area and then rolled the bodies from atop that what I perceive to be rise and gravity took the bodies to where they are now, into the grassy overgrowth area.

I wish I had otto's mapping and illustrating skills so I could better show the route I think a perp on ATV would take, where the logical stop would be. I don't think I am explaining well.

I think that sandy, silty looking area is actually riverbed in better years when the river is flowing at normal levels.

To me, it looks like the grassy area is slightly higher than the sandy area of the river bottom but I could easily be wrong (I'm visually impaired). Part of it is logic: water seeks the lowest point in any landscape. If the grassy area were lower than the riverbed, it would be the riverbed.

The Wapsipinicon flows along a fairly flat area, which is why it is so twisty and windy. It doesn't take much to change the direction of a river in flat areas, so the rivers go back and forth as well as changing course fairly frequently (look at how much riprap there is; that's evidence that the DNR is trying to stabilise the course of the river).

 

[GrainneDhu]

Same thing here in South Dakota. I can count on one hand the times it rained this year until we got snow, In the last 3 days we now have a foot of snow but that's only about one inch of rain. Long term drought expected here.

It is snowing here right now, too.

Y'all up there are much more marginal on water than Iowa is, even in good years. Seems like it's too much or way too little for you most years.

Such a beautiful area but hard, hard country to live in.

 

[Adair88]

dadgum, LE has been processing the site since last Wednesday. They said it might be open again Monday but maybe not.

The only large scavenger/hunter in Iowa is the coyote. Almost all of Iowa is coyote and fox territory; they occupy the same environmental niche and coyote will not tolerate fox in their territory.

I'm not familiar with the 7 Bridges Park but just from looking at the photos, I would expect it to be fox territory. Fox like wooded areas and less contact with humans, coyote like more open areas and more contact with humans.

If I'm right about it being fox territory, then the smaller bones may have been scattered but most of the skeleton would still be in place.

Florida is very different from Iowa.

First of all, I want to thank you so much for all your informative posts. You do an excellent job at describing Iowa and Iowans in very accurate and colorful detail!

In talking to a person familiar with 7 Bridges, he says coyotes are very prevalent in that area. And I hate to eat my words, but he thinks there *gasp* might even be a wild boar or two around there as well.... :what:

 

[Progressforward]

Sorry if you took any offense to my post, Grainne. My 2 1/2 yr old cousin was murdered by a meth addict in 2006. James "jimbo" Davis slammed Dakota Matthew Cofer into a wall, caving in a part of his skull and leaving a hole in the wall. Jimbo would have never done this without a meth addiction, but that makes it no easier to forgive. I don't like meth. Or what it does to people.

Off topic from the girls case....
The New Faces of Meth Ad- what it does to people....disturbing photos
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-faces-of-meth-ads-are-utterly-harrowing-2012-12

 

[trigger]

One of the wild cards in the various comfort space theories is that there can be other not-obvious places the murderer is familiar with -- things like a favorite jogging place that is nowhere near the rest of his life, or the home where he grew up in a town 60 miles away, or his grandmother's house. The serial killer we had in our area -- assuming the police have arrested the right man -- grew up on the farm where two of the bodies were found, and came to this area to dispose of the bodies, even though he hadn't lived here since he was about 12. He lived in a rural area quite a bit north of here, drove 30 miles into the nearest large city to pick up streetwalkers, and drove another 20 miles or so to leave them.

I agree the area where they found the girls could be his favorite place when he was young. This area could be near his grandmoms house. I pray someone will remember and come forward to LE. This perp is going to get caught, JMO though.

IMO it seems like a long hike to carry them so hopefully the perp hungout there a bit, like smoked a cigarette, drank a beer. I hope they have footprints and car tracks which will lead LE to where they entered the park and find additional evidence. lease:

I'm so happy the hunters found them!!!

 

[dadgum]

First of all, I want to thank you so much for all your informative posts. You do an excellent job at describing Iowa and Iowans in very accurate and colorful detail!

In talking to a person familiar with 7 Bridges, he says coyotes are very prevalent in that area. And I hate to eat my words, but he thinks there *gasp* might even be a wild boar or two around there as well.... :what:

Hi Adair..yes..if these critters are in one county, they are likely in more. They do not understand county lines. lol. And all are on the move..looking for food and water, moving along food-rich riverbeds. Unless you are looking for them, you may never see either boar or coyotes. Until they are sighted, or better yet a ranger is presented with a dead one. they won't appear on any wildlife map. My state still maintains we have no coyotes, though every one of us has lost calves to them.

I hope eventually enough information will come out to clear things up..but as long as they catch and prosecute whoever did this, I really don't care either way..

 

[Jacie Estes]

It is snowing here right now, too.

Y'all up there are much more marginal on water than Iowa is, even in good years. Seems like it's too much or way too little for you most years.

Such a beautiful area but hard, hard country to live in.

Yes it is...our predicted 12 degrees last night turned into -7 and it's at -1 at 9am. ETA oops forgot the wind chill, that was -20.

The Cheyenne River, at the rez line in SD, had no water this summer.

 

[hollyblue]

Oh no, it is my understanding and personal experience, that Meth does change personality - and greatly. Meth wears down on your mind, and the things that meant a lot to you no longer do. My own sister sent both her parents to the hospital in a night of rage and aggressiveness. She loved my mother, but in those moments she didn't care. She had no sense of "This is wrong". Meth causes paranoia and aggressiveness, so it would be very difficult to keep up a good relationship with someone on a long term basis. And once they are there homicidal thoughts could creep up - and it could happen pretty quickly. Through some research I did a while back and I did learn that Meth thins the line between right and wrong to the point where the user can't really understand something is wrong - versus a choice they are making. And then they start to enjoy what they are doing.

Agree, it effects the brain's chemistry balance on levels that are unreal. Increases the dopamine instantly, after long use the crash is like major, major depression which also causes a person to not care about things they once held dear.

"When addicts use meth over and over again, the drug actually changes their brain chemistry, destroying the wiring in the brain's pleasure centers and making it increasingly impossible to experience any pleasure at all."

• Meth releases a surge of dopamine, causing an intense rush of pleasure or prolonged sense of euphoria.
• Over time, meth destroys dopamine receptors, making it impossible to feel pleasure.
• Although these pleasure centers can heal over time, research suggests that damage to users' cognitive abilities may be permanent.
• Chronic abuse can lead to psychotic behavior, including paranoia, insomnia, anxiety, extreme aggression, delusions and hallucinations, and even death.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/body/