IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[GrainneDhu]

But they rode there anyway many times...didn't that man watering the lawn see them that day and many other times to the point he knew Elizabeth? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

No one knows, really.

Mistaken eyewitness identification is a really common problem.

Something else that is possible is that Elizabeth may have had permission to ride with her older siblings and/or parent to the lake but did not have permission to ride there with Lyric.

Or... there's always a first time a kid does something and all parents pray that the first bit of mischief a child gets up to doesn't have serious consequences. Most of the time, it doesn't. Once in a while, it does.

 

[otto]

And why did the family want LE to go to the lake to search if they weren't going there?

They searched all over the place. I think it was Tammy that decided to check lake after about an hour, perhaps in part because Lyric had asked if she could go there shortly before the abduction.

 

[JaimeInLA]

ok, new topic...

Let's assume for a minute that JVM's reporter is correct (I know! Ugh), and that he did hear from an LE source that the bodies were at a dump site, not a murder site.

How would that be determined? Absence of blood? Wouldn't blood be gone anyway after a few weeks? Maybe it was obvious they had been shot, but there were no bullet casings? How else could they be positive it was just a dump site?

 

[Foxfire]

:floorlaugh: No, it was just a joke.

:floorlaugh: 'Went right over my head'...

I have a dragon. When I sneeze, it types 'gazuntite'..

 

[Marilynilpa]

Not sure why you put uncle in quote marks since he is apparently a brother to both Heather and Misty.

As I recall, he has had arrests for drug use, so my guess is that his coping mechanisms are not very good. I don't know how to put this... I'm thinking something along the lines that it is really difficult to have a substance abuse problem at the best of times. When the people you might ordinarily turn to all of a sudden have a big, huge, horrible emergency in their lives, most people with substance abuse problems are not able to suddenly grow adequate coping skills.

I think it could be thinking something like "why wasn't it f'ed up me that was taken rather than my beautiful innocent nieces?"

That is all just a guess, though.

I believe his girlfriend also OD'ed along with him. I think the OD was accidental and not a sign of guilt over involvement with the girls' abduction.

 

[otto]

ok, new topic...

Let's assume for a minute that JVM's reporter is correct (I know! Ugh), and that he did hear from an LE source that the bodies were at a dump site, not a murder site.

How would that be determined? Absence of blood? Wouldn't blood be gone anyway after a few weeks? Maybe it was obvious they had been shot, but there were no bullet casings? How else could they be positive it was just a dump site?

The source may have made an assumption that it was a "dump site" because of where the girls were found ... laid out, 40-50 feet from each other. If the perp assaulted them in a vehicle, like photographer Speers, in the 7 Bridges County Park, then taking them 40-50 feet away may look like they were dumped there rather than assaulted there.

 

[GrainneDhu]

And why did the family want LE to go to the lake to search if they weren't going there?

I haven't heard that either family made any special request to LE to focus on Meyer's Lake before the girls' bicycles were found. It sounded to me like they all jumped in cars and scattered across Evansdale to look before Heather got home. As soon as Heather heard the girls were missing, her mom intuition told her they had been abducted and she went to the police station in person to report them missing.

One or more family members had driven by Meyer's Lake but they didn't get out of their car, probably because they had the impression they could see around the entire perimeter of the lake (the bicycles were in the one place that could not be seen from across the lake).

It was inevitable that LE and firefighters (it was a volunteer firefighter who found the bikes) would get there because there just aren't that many places for a kid to go in Evansdale and with the skateboarding park right by the lake, I think it could be counted as a kid attraction.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The bodies show if they've been moved after death.

When you die, the blood stops flowing, so it settles at the lowest point. If the body is later moved, it still shows colouration where the blood originally settled, and of course critter activity is increased in these parts of the body as a result.

It's got a name but I just can't think of it...someone else will know...

 

[SapphireSteel]

And why did the family want LE to go to the lake to search if they weren't going there?

It was the opposite way around, the family were insistent the girls were not in the lake but LE drained it anyway.

The family had originally looked around the lake though, for the girls.

 

[dadgum]

The bodies show if they've been moved after death.

When you die, the blood stops flowing, so it settles at the lowest point. If the body is later moved, it still shows colouration where the blood originally settled, and of course critter activity is increased in these parts of the body as a result.

It's got a name but I just can't think of it...someone else will know...

...lividity.

 

[Squeeze]

The reason I don't believe it was a drug retalition against the father is because of little Elizabeth and the location. The Gma and Lyric lived in Waterloo and were only in Evansdale to help Heather. If someone was after Lyric, they wouldn't be looking in E'dale, but watching for her in Waterloo. IMO I believe the Collins' family has now moved to Waterloo if the FB is correct. ?? Anyone know for certain? I can't say I don't blame them if they did. It could be anyone with sick issues known by either family or the girls.

Whoever it is, I hope they round them up quickly and get them off the streets.

imo

The Collins still live in Evansdale. Not sure exactly where Lyric lived. But a house that she lived in with Dan on Campbell avenue was recently for sale. It is listed as a Meth house. That's the only home I know of for Lyric unless she did live with grandma.

 

[SapphireSteel]

...lividity.

:cheers:

 

[Marilynilpa]

ok, new topic...

Let's assume for a minute that JVM's reporter is correct (I know! Ugh), and that he did hear from an LE source that the bodies were at a dump site, not a murder site.

How would that be determined? Absence of blood? Wouldn't blood be gone anyway after a few weeks? Maybe it was obvious they had been shot, but there were no bullet casings? How else could they be positive it was just a dump site?

I suppose the fact that the bodies were readily identifiable could lead one to assume they had been dumped there because someone would have located them had they been in this location for five months.

And, like you said, if it was obvious they had been shot but no casings were found, someone might assume the murders didn't occur in that location.

I believe the "dump site" comment was made for sensationalism - even if the reporter did have an inside source, the scene had not been completely searched at the time he made that comment. A MSM article linked by otto many posts ago mentioned that investigators intended to spend the weekend looking for evidence. Until all of the evidence has been collected, I don't believe anyone including a source "close to the investigation" can say for sure that this was a dump site only. JMO

 

[cindersoot]

The Collins still live in Evansdale. Not sure exactly where Lyric lived. But a house that she lived in with Dan on Campbell avenue was recently for sale. It is listed as a Meth house. That's the only home I know of for Lyric unless she did live with grandma.

It is listed as a meth house? What does that mean? Meth house for sale in the realestate ads?:waitasec:

 

[cindersoot]

:floorlaugh: 'Went right over my head'...

I have a dragon. When I sneeze, it types 'gazuntite'..

It does not, lol.:waitasec:

 

[Marilynilpa]

It was the opposite way around, the family were insistent the girls were not in the lake but LE drained it anyway.

The family had originally looked around the lake though, for the girls.

Wasn't it Aunt Tammy who originally said to search around the lake for the girls? I think she may have known the girls rode their bikes there, even though Heather and Wylma said they didn't.

The family always stated the girls wouldn't have gotten into the leech infested lake but many, including myself, felt like it was a possibility. And LE would have been remiss, IMO, if they hadn't thoroughly searched the lake.

 

[dadgum]

..mine unfortunately typed 'smelly face' when I asked for a 'smiley face'. I don't use it much since that..

 

[SapphireSteel]

The Collins still live in Evansdale. Not sure exactly where Lyric lived. But a house that she lived in with Dan on Campbell avenue was recently for sale. It is listed as a Meth house. That's the only home I know of for Lyric unless she did live with grandma.

Lyric had spent a lot of her childhood with Drew and Heather, but was living with grandma in Waterloo before/after Misty got parolled also to grandma's in Waterloo.

What my question has always been, and I was too scared to post it at the time, is where was Dan actually living when this happened?

Grandma tells a story about Lyric packing her bags and getting ready to run away from home because of fighting with Dan about chores...but at least she had her family together.

I always thought that implied that the chores she was supposed to do were at grandmas, so why is Dan disciplining her for something that occurred where he was not supposed to be living?

A little inconsistency that tells me Dan may well have been living with Misty, grandma and Lyric, thereby probably violating all sorts of court orders.

 

[Marilynilpa]

It is listed as a meth house? What does that mean? Meth house for sale in the realestate ads?:waitasec:

Wow, wouldn't that be a great selling point!:what:

I can see the ad now - beautiful home, near schools and public transportation, already equipped for meth production, attached garage. Must see to appreciate.

 

[MNDad]

I think the person is definitely a local that was familiar with the park. IMO no one would drive down a desolate dirt road in hopes of finding a place to dump a couple of bodies. This person(s) had a destination.