IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[Marilynilpa]

I don't think LE will say much about the cause of death or the crime scene at all, before a future trial. Especially if they do not even have a suspect; they have to keep most things back to try to weed out cranks, etc.

My hope is that, somehow, there won't be a trial, that LE can find enough evidence to match up with a suspect that they plead guilty. I think a trial might be too much for the parents. At a trial, they will have to hear every single detail.

In the Mickey Shunick case, they arrested the perp Brandon Scott Lavergne and he surprised just about everyone by confessing not just to her murder, but to another murder.

Sure would be nice if that happens in this case once a perp is arrested.lease:

 

[GrainneDhu]

CF photo looks like he was on meth/drugs when it was taken. Hummmm.... drug connection......my thoughts are that this was not a payback for a plea bargain but that one or both of the girls were around when drugs were being made (DM and MM house is listed for sale as a meth house) or when drugs were being sold. The perp liked the child he saw (probably only Lyric) and fantasized until he could convince her to meet him alone. I also think the Lyric and Tammy's daughter met the perp the week prior. Is it CF? Tammy's daughter is the only one who knows where she and Lyric went and who (if anyone) they met. I am grasping for straws like everyone else. IMO

I thought the same thing when I looked at CF's most recent mug shot. Also when I looked at his weight and height (he's very slender).

IF the perp turns out to have a history with meth, that still doesn't mean he ever met DM or MCM. Since DM gave LE all his contacts in the drug world in an effort to help the investigation, I would think that if CF had come up he would have gotten a really hard look last summer.

As for Aunt TB's daughter KB, if she and Lyric went to meet a specific person, I find it hard to believe an 11 year old could keep it secret for five months under these circumstances. It is possible but does not seem likely to me.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I am grateful that the vast majority of WS posters can write in complete sentences.

Or, in FB write: I m gr8ful tht teh vast majorty o WS posters cn wrt in complet sentence.

:seeya::floorlaugh:

 

[katydid23]

Misty was a frequent flier in ER for a while there.

LE believed they were alive too.

I think they may well have been alive up until very recently.

I am desperate for the autopsy results, anything will do, even one word or sentence.

I have seen this speculation and I wonder too---but why would they still be in the same clothing and shoes when they were disposed of, if they were kept alive for a long time.

 

[Chris_Texas]

LE have not released one syllable more than they felt necessary, the entire way through this case.

It has been very frustrating but we all can swallow that if it means there's an arrest imminent.

I sincerely believe there is an arrest, or more than one, just around the corner.

Ps. I like these Iowa guys. Strong silent types.

Hopefully you are correct.

One thing I have learned: most police officials are masters of the art of projecting the illusion that they are in control and they know way more than they really do. Sadly, most of the time it's nonsense. When crimes are solved it's usually because there is (literally or figuratively) a trail of bloody footprints leading from the crime scene straight to where the perpetrator is vigorously scrubbing the gore from his hands. And all too often that's not enough for a conviction. Just ask OJ or Casey Anthony about that.

From the police point of view it's best is when the perp confesses. Lacking that they need something that ties the suspect (and no one else) to the crime. Even when the police have a really good idea who did it, they need something concrete that they can take in front of a jury.

My HOPE is that the police have had this for some time and were waiting on bodies before moving forward. But I don't put a lot of stock in my hopes.

Anyway, like I said, I am not buying the drug connection. I think this was a more or less random abduction. I am very much hoping that the police nail someone quickly, otherwise I very much fear that this person or persons will kill again.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I have seen this speculation and I wonder too---but why would they still be in the same clothing and shoes when they were disposed of, if they were kept alive for a long time.

If they were kept alive for a while that is a huge piece of information. It essentially (all but) confirms that the killer is someone local to that area.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I have seen this speculation and I wonder too---but why would they still be in the same clothing and shoes when they were disposed of, if they were kept alive for a long time.

Has that been published in MSM?

Do you have a link?

TIA

 

[SapphireSteel]

Hopefully you are correct.

One thing I have learned: most police officials are masters of the art of projecting the illusion that they are in control and they know way more than they really do. Sadly, most of the time it's nonsense. When crimes are solved it's usually because there is (literally or figuratively) a trail of bloody footprints leading from the crime scene straight to where the perpetrator is vigorously scrubbing the gore from his hands. And all too often that's not enough for a conviction. Just ask OJ or Casey Anthony about that.

From the police point of view it's best is when the perp confesses. Lacking that they need something that ties the suspect (and no one else) to the crime. Even when the police have a really good idea who did it, they need something concrete that they can take in front of a jury.

My HOPE is that the police have had this for some time and were waiting on bodies before moving forward. But I don't put a lot of stock in my hopes.

Anyway, like I said, I am not buying the drug connection. I think this was a more or less random abduction. I am very much hoping that the police nail someone quickly, otherwise I very much fear that this person or persons will kill again.

Really?

That seems like a remarkable claim.

Let's see....we've had local LE, State LE, and the FBI, a 110 house blitz and now recovery of two bodies, yet everyone is clueless and just pretending?

LE often know exactly what has gone down, or at least they have a very good idea. They are not stupid. They have resources the likes of us can only imagine. Check out Forensic Linguistics for an example.

LE often cannot PROVE what they know, however, which is why people sometimes are never charged.

Not only do LE have to find proof to convince a judge and jury, they also have to prove their allegations to the DA's office who may or may not wish to run a case they might lose.

It's all political, really. Saying LE have no idea and just get lucky when they solve a crime, is a pretty sweeping (and inaccurate) statement.

 

[Confusion]

If they were kept alive for a while that is a huge piece of information. It essentially (all but) confirms that the killer is someone local to that area.

I hope they weren't kept alive unless there was an ulterior motive for taking them and they weren't hurt until the end. I can't even imagine the guilt LE would feel and the anger that family and many other people would feel if it were found eventually that these girls had been kept alive in the area for months and could have been found if more information would have been made public. I believe the officers in that area really work hard, and I'd hate to see them get blamed for not finding them in time (by themselves or others) MOO

 

[katydid23]

Has that been published in MSM?

Do you have a link?

TIA

No, but wasn't that what people here were saying---that the girls were recognized because of their clothing? I thought that's what is being alleged.
Am I wrong?

 

[Elley Mae]

Hopefully you are correct.

One thing I have learned: most police officials are masters of the art of projecting the illusion that they are in control and they know way more than they really do. Sadly, most of the time it's nonsense. When crimes are solved it's usually because there is (literally or figuratively) a trail of bloody footprints leading from the crime scene straight to where the perpetrator is vigorously scrubbing the gore from his hands. And all too often that's not enough for a conviction. Just ask OJ or Casey Anthony about that.

From the police point of view it's best is when the perp confesses. Lacking that they need something that ties the suspect (and no one else) to the crime. Even when the police have a really good idea who did it, they need something concrete that they can take in front of a jury.

My HOPE is that the police have had this for some time and were waiting on bodies before moving forward. But I don't put a lot of stock in my hopes.

Anyway, like I said, I am not buying the drug connection. I think this was a more or less random abduction. I am very much hoping that the police nail someone quickly, otherwise I very much fear that this person or persons will kill again.

bbm, Agree.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.southwestiowanews.com/co...cle_b2bb2f02-40a0-11e2-b799-0019bb2963f4.html

The sheriff's office had asked neighboring counties, including Bremer County, to search their parks and wildlife areas for the girls after they vanished last summer, Thompson said. He said that as far as he knows, Bremer County officers did search the popular hunting and fishing spot but that the bodies would have been hard for anyone to spot.

"Even the hunters, if they had gone five feet in either direction, would not have found those bodies," he said.

bbm

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by TeenyTaurus
Grief has many faces. I'm sure this will pass, and the fences end up stronger in the long run.

As long as the murders are solved and have nothing to do with the meth dealings.

Imo, the probability that there will be a meth connection, either directly or indirectly is very high. I am more concerned with the compassionate open letter to the abductor/s.

Letter to the kidnapper of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_794abf88-2d0b-11e2-affd-0019bb2963f4.html

(snipped-read more)

To Whom it May Concern:

We would use your name, but we don’t know who you are. Or maybe we do? Maybe you are someone who knows the girls? Maybe you are someone who just acted upon an impulse? Maybe you planned to take them? We don’t know, because we don’t know who you are.

But we can sort of imagine that you must not have had the things you needed to grow up feeling safe and loved. Because only someone who hurts inside would hurt another person and their family. We’ve all heard the saying, “Hurt people, hurt people.” We believe that is true.

 

[Foxfire]

'Guess, the extremely low NCIC statistics/estimates on stranger abductions are irrelevant to those victims who have been abducted by strangers'...

'Whether in IA, OH, GA, CA, or anywhere USA, parents must be aware & vigilant':

http://www.wfmj.com/global/story.asp?s=20320699

WARREN, Ohio - A Warren mother says her children will no longer walk to their bus stops alone after her daughter says she was approached by a man who ordered her to get in his car.
(read more)

 

[threecrazykids]

I believe the reason people are assuming they were killed fairly soon after the abduction is because in Heather Collins's interview she described how Drew notified her that they had been called to city hall...they were only called there when something relevant happened.

They went there, and she said that police (in the nicest way possible) told them that 2 bodies had been found and that they were no longer with us on this earth (paraphrasing)...and then showed them items found with the bodies. She said they were Lyric and Elizabeths.

So the question is "what would investigators show her that would clearly identify the girls"? My guess would be clothing or shoes of some sort...it almost had to be...the only other thing the girls had on them (that has been reported anyway) was the purse...which was found at Meyer's Lake.

For me, there is no question they showed them clothes...which leads some to believe they were in the same clothing as the day they went missing.

 

[Emi]

BBM = Bolded By Me (usually to emphasize part of a previous post in your statement)

I bolded your "bbm"

The thank you button is not enough, so I appreciate it.

 

[princessk]

http://www.southwestiowanews.com/co...cle_b2bb2f02-40a0-11e2-b799-0019bb2963f4.html

The sheriff's office had asked neighboring counties, including Bremer County, to search their parks and wildlife areas for the girls after they vanished last summer, Thompson said. He said that as far as he knows, Bremer County officers did search the popular hunting and fishing spot but that the bodies would have been hard for anyone to spot.

"Even the hunters, if they had gone five feet in either direction, would not have found those bodies," he said.

bbm

Wouldn't these areas be searched with dogs with those current conditions?

 

[princessk]

I believe the reason people are assuming they were killed fairly soon after the abduction is because in Heather Collins's interview she described how Drew notified her that they had been called to city hall...they were only called there when something relevant happened.

They went there, and she said that police (in the nicest way possible) told them that 2 bodies had been found and that they were no longer with us on this earth (paraphrasing)...and then showed them items found with the bodies. She said they were Lyric and Elizabeths.

So the question is "what would investigators show her that would clearly identify the girls"? My guess would be clothing or shoes of some sort...it almost had to be...the only other thing the girls had on them (that has been reported anyway) was the purse...which was found at Meyer's Lake.

For me, there is no question they showed them clothes...which leads some to believe they were in the same clothing as the day they went missing.

I was thinking possibly earrings

 

[tlcya]

Hoping le was able to glean a lot from the scene and that despite the silence there is MUCH going on behind the scenes.

Please let le have a suspect and be keeping a close eye as they build a case.

Scary that whoever is responsible is still out there.

 

[palaminodee]

CF photo looks like he was on meth/drugs when it was taken. Hummmm.... drug connection......my thoughts are that this was not a payback for a plea bargain but that one or both of the girls were around when drugs were being made (DM and MM house is listed for sale as a meth house) or when drugs were being sold. The perp liked the child he saw (probably only Lyric) and fantasized until he could convince her to meet him alone. I also think the Lyric and Tammy's daughter met the perp the week prior. Is it CF? Tammy's daughter is the only one who knows where she and Lyric went and who (if anyone) they met. I am grasping for straws like everyone else. IMO

I'm in agreement, I think Tammy's daughter and Lyric were meeting up with someone they should not be meeting with either thru fb, zoosk or just hanging in the park in the summer. They got caught up in it the day they came back late.
I think 7/13 was another planned meeting, not sure of the specifics, but something went very wrong. Lizzy was tagging along and just was a victim of the circumstance.
Of course this is just my opinion and one of my theories.