IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

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then it's likely he walked along the lake edge, put the bikes on the trail side of the gate, .[/quote]

If he touched those bikes there might be prints.
 
I certainly don't think Heather and Drew were negligent parents, so why would CPS be involved? Who said Elizabeth stayed home by herself?

I raised the question about Lizzie's biking habits because if she DID ride further than one block often enough for her parents to have rules for her to follow, then it would be interesting to know where she went, how often she was allowed to do so, and the route she took to get there. IMO that could provide other possibilities as to where a person with bad intents might have seen her prior to July 13th. JMO

I quoted the post I was responding to, I do not believe that Heather and Drew were negligent in the least, I do not believe they left their 8 y/o child home alone. If they did, I do believe CPS would do an investigation.
 
Why leave the bikes? If they were taken close to home, why drop the bikes at all? Same goes for the lake. In a hurry? The girls must have already been subdued so why leave the bikes behind and take the chance LE would get evidence from them and the purse?

If I planned an abduction I would want it to look like they disappeared into thin air. Leave nothing behind. This person is smart not lucky. IMO
 
I quoted the post I was responding to, I do not believe that Heather and Drew were negligent in the least, I do not believe they left their 8 y/o child home alone. If they did, I do believe CPS would do an investigation.

I agree, that would certainly merit a CPS investigation.
 
then it's likely he walked along the lake edge, put the bikes on the trail side of the gate,

If he touched those bikes there might be prints.

I'm wondering ... I've always looked at the cyclist's sighting of the bikes in terms of the time needed for the girls to ride that far. What if they were grabbed at Broven and River Forest Road, driven to Maiden Lane, the bikes were tossed over the fence, the cyclist rode by and had to swerve to avoid them, the perp crossed the fence, and ran the bikes up the trail to the gate, tossed the purse over the fence and went back to the vehicle on Maiden Lane. This would require heavily subdued children. Someone suggested a stun gun. It could also explain the timing of the cyclist's bike sighting.
 
I'm just thinking that if we look only at what has been officially stated regarding the bloodhounds, and ignore all the speculations and rumor, then it sounds like the bloodhounds simply identified the bikes that were at the water. Based on official information, it does not sound like the bloodhounds tracked in any direction away from the bikes, which would suggest to me that the scent could have been on the bikes, but that there was no "oldest to newest" scent leaving the bikes.

FBI Breault: “The scent did lead to the water, which is also where their bikes were found."

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e795f002-d1ad-11e1-b983-001a4bcf887a.html

Well guess it was another male poster that saw the tire tracks near the wood Elephers maybe ? not sure but I do remember reading it also the Dogs stopped I don't mean dead stop I mean they lost the scent and there was no scent :banghead: to follow at the woods and took the dos to the edge of the lake. . I recall Wylma sitting and trying to cool off
 
Why leave the bikes? If they were taken close to home, why drop the bikes at all? Same goes for the lake. In a hurry? The girls must have already been subdued so why leave the bikes behind and take the chance LE would get evidence from them and the purse?

If I planned an abduction I would want it to look like they disappeared into thin air. Leave nothing behind. This person is smart not lucky. IMO

I think the perp left the bikes in order to buy himself more time.

I think the last thing the perp wanted was to make it look like the girls disappeared into thin air. I think he wanted to make it seem the girls might have drowned in the lake,or just wandered off on their own and got lost. Leaving the bikes there ensured that LE didn't immediately come to the conclusion that the girls were abducted.

I agree with you that this perp is smart, not lucky.
 
Well guess it was another male poster that saw the tire tracks near the wood Elephers maybe ? not sure but I do remember reading it also the Dogs stopped I don't mean dead stop I mean they lost the scent and there was no scent :banghead: to follow at the woods and took the dos to the edge of the lake. . I recall Wylma sitting and trying to cool off

It was Ollipop, a local who is related by marriage to the family, who saw tire tracks.
 
Could it perhaps be someone that had a quieter day on one of the acreages between Evansdale and 7 Brdiges?

Otto, I have a request for another of your very much appreciated maps. I am interested in the road that leads to 7 Bridges Park. I remember seeing a photo that showed a harvested field. I am interested in what is alongside that road, on either side--fields, farms, homes, etc. The route in. Wondering how many eyes and ears are in the area when vehicles go in there. Thank You again so much for your wonderful maps!
 
Why leave the bikes? If they were taken close to home, why drop the bikes at all? Same goes for the lake. In a hurry? The girls must have already been subdued so why leave the bikes behind and take the chance LE would get evidence from them and the purse?

If I planned an abduction I would want it to look like they disappeared into thin air. Leave nothing behind. This person is smart not lucky. IMO

It did look like they vanished into thin air.

He had to get rid of the bikes. Assuming that the bikes were staged (we don't know that for sure), he would have taken the bikes in the first place to delay discovery of where the children were abducted, and he would put the bikes in a place that may delay discover of the children and give him time to distance himself from the abduction ... all about careful planning and getting away with it.

I put this poster together a couple of months ago because that's what it seemed like ... like they were riding their bikes on the trail and simply vanished into thin air.

Elizabeth_Collins_Lyric_Cook_July_13_2012.jpg
 
Otto, I have a request for another of your very much appreciated maps. I am interested in the road that leads to 7 Bridges Park. I remember seeing a photo that showed a harvested field. I am interested in what is alongside that road, on either side--fields, farms, homes, etc. The route in. Wondering how many eyes and ears are in the area when vehicles go in there. Thank You again so much for your wonderful maps!

Can you give me an intersection or two?
 
I did say Elizabeth was clearly coming and going from home on her bike, whilst her parents were at work/not in the home, by the language used.

That doesn't mean she didn't have a carer, or her older siblings or relatives, in the home at the time...just maybe not always her parents.

But it does seem to indicate to me that the "strict rules" are pretty flexible.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

:cow:
 
Well, it was true enough for a major newspaper to print it, and I've seen no retraction by the Des Moines Register.

As to where that info came from, who knows, but I figured Aunt Tammy was truthful when she said LE told the family this. I believe the family knows quite a bit about what happened to the girls, and when, that LE doesn't feel they need to share with us. JMO

Right now, I don't think LE is too concerned about whether or not we, the public, have all the information. They are focused on trying to solve this terrible crime, not asking the public to help them do it (other than asking for tips). After all, as invested as most of us are in the case, we aren't LE or FBI and the likelihood that any snippet of info from LE would enable us to solve this crime are negligible, IMO.

And just a few years ago they were saying the opposite - that public
input and cooperation was vital to solving child abduction crimes!

I guess the Theory changed!

And if they dont solve the crime then they will be severely criticised for
having witheld information from the public, with another chunck of social
confidence in our fellow man gone - that's just a fact.

Its getting hard to keep up with the latest "trend". New math. New-New
math. New-New-New Action-News-New math .....
Meanwhile I assume 1+1 still equals 2 ? 4? 793?
 
I think the perp left the bikes in order to buy himself more time.

If the bikes had not been found, it would have quickly been considered an abduction, IMO. I think the last thing the perp wanted was to make it look like the girls disappeared into thin air.

I agree with you that this perp is smart, not lucky.

I guess I don't have a criminal mind. :rocker:

So if the bikes were planted there the perp wouldn't have thrown them over the fence taking the chance of damaging them because LE would know. Therefore, if the girls did not lay the bikes down the perp did and that takes time. I would think time was of the essence. The faster it is done the greater the chance of messing up. Unless, of course, this perp has had a lot of practice. IMO
 
I think the perp left the bikes in order to buy himself more time.

I think the last thing the perp wanted was to make it look like the girls disappeared into thin air. I think he wanted to make it seem the girls might have drowned in the lake,or just wandered off on their own and got lost. Leaving the bikes there ensured that LE didn't immediately come to the conclusion that the girls were abducted.

I agree with you that this perp is smart, not lucky.

I think they were smart AND lucky.

How long do you think it would take an abductor to scope out how many cctvs line a certain route?

Probably not long, if friends/associates are employed along the route, which often happens in small towns. It would be relatively easy for a local to figure out how to avoid the cameras, which seems to have been what has happened.

But luck would have to had come into it, too. Whoever did it, was incredibly brazen and did not look out of place.

I just keep coming on back to accomplices, staging and planning.
 
It was Ollipop, a local who is related by marriage to the family, who saw tire tracks.

Has Ollipop been in much, since the girls were found?

Local grapevine news would be invaluable...I'll take anything, rumour or not!
 
O/T but may be of interest to some

Many times I've seen cases where missing teens are considered runaways, and as a result don't get much attention from LE. Here is a refreshing exception:

Cleveland police say despite the 13-year-old being a known runaway, they're taking all necessary steps to try and locate her and bring her safely home.

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/lo...13-year-old-girl-jazmine-haamid#ixzz2FNb19if3
 
I didn't take Heather's statement that way at all. I took it to say when they allow her to go more than one block she must call when she gets there. To me that sounds like they keep a close eye on her and dont just let her run around all over creation.

I seriously doubt that Heather and Drew let Elizabeth stay home by herself. I would imagine they allow her to go to her friends house when grandma is watching them, but she must call her parents and ask permission, then once she gets to her friends house she calls mom and lets her know. When she gets home from friends house she calls mom and lets her know.

If they were in the habit of letting Elizabeth stay home by herself I'm sure we would have heard by now how CPS was involved.
I took it as her saying that if Elizabeth went somewhere, that she would call and let her parents know she was heading home before she left her current location so the parents could be watching for her.
 
Has Ollipop been in much, since the girls were found?

Local grapevine news would be invaluable...I'll take anything, rumour or not!

He's dropped by a couple of times, but just for a short while. I hope he visits us again soon.
 
I guess I don't have a criminal mind. :rocker:

So if the bikes were planted there the perp wouldn't have thrown them over the fence taking the chance of damaging them because LE would know. Therefore, if the girls did not lay the bikes down the perp did and that takes time. I would think time was of the essence. The faster it is done the greater the chance of messing up. Unless, of course, this perp has had a lot of practice. IMO

I doubt there would be much damage from lifting a bike over a six foot fence and dropping it on the trail. However, if the bikes weren't dropped over the fence, then the bikes were never lying on the path just East of the gate and the perp took them to the gate via the lake side of the fence.

We have the cyclist claiming that the bikes were on the trail, East of the drainage gate (closer to the gate to the private land) at a time that is too tight for them to ride them there, but if they were driven there and the bikes were put on the trail first in that location ... then the perp sees the cyclist swerve ... so he moved them to the gate.
 
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