IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

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O/T but may be of interest to some

Many times I've seen cases where missing teens are considered runaways, and as a result don't get much attention from LE. Here is a refreshing exception:

Cleveland police say despite the 13-year-old being a known runaway,

Defies logic-101! Runaways are by definition MORE VULNERABLE!

Where is all this backwards thinking coming from and why?

Maybe what they are really saying is: 'we dont like runaways and troubled kids, kids in
trouble, ... so we will dispense with them ? Too much time. Too much cost $$$ on a budget
already cut ... cut out art, music, math, and run-a-ways ?
 
I guess I don't have a criminal mind. :rocker:

So if the bikes were planted there the perp wouldn't have thrown them over the fence taking the chance of damaging them because LE would know. Therefore, if the girls did not lay the bikes down the perp did and that takes time. I would think time was of the essence. The faster it is done the greater the chance of messing up. Unless, of course, this perp has had a lot of practice. IMO

I agree it would be risky to stage the bikes.

My theory is that the girls were taken from the lake and the bikes were not staged.

But obviously that doesn't keep me from speculating about other theories, LOL.
 
Defies logic-101! Runaways are by definition MORE VULNERABLE!

Where is all this backwards thinking coming from and why?

Maybe what they are really saying is: 'we dont like runaways and troubled kids, kids in
trouble, ... so we will dispense with them ? Too much time. Too much cost $$$ on a budget
already cut ... cut out art, music, math, and run-a-ways ?

I agree, especially a runaway who is a drug user. I know police departments are not able to spend manpower and money on all runaways, but when there are known danger factors such as drug use, it's great when LE steps in right away. JMO
 
Well, it does suggest that the girls were at Meyer's Lake that day.

It could be useful or it may be useless. Hard to say until the case is over.

One way it might be useful is if someone out there has picked up something hinky about the perp and then realises that the perp was familiar with both Meyer's Lake and 7 Bridges.

Or some other combination of little facts that individually don't mean much but give someone the intuition that maybe this guy they know did it.

Okay, so maybe this is crazy thought....but what if LE could put out a bulletin on 'where were you that day? what do you remember?"...

Meaning: we all know where we were on Sept 11th, as an example...

But at least for me, I have no idea what else was going on the day the girls disappeared...

So maybe something like "on this day that was warm and drizzly, and the Cornhuskers (shoot that might be Nebraska?) were about to face team XYZ, and whatever else local or national, that was current that day"....can maybe refresh peoples memories about what was noticeably out of place or unusual...

Just maybe a different way to refresh peoples memories?
 
I took it as her saying that if Elizabeth went somewhere, that she would call and let her parents know she was heading home before she left her current location so the parents could be watching for her.

Elizabeth and her mom spent time together each evening after the two youngest were in bed - where they ate ice cream. If 4 year olds are in bed by 7 PM ... then, according to Heather, each evening Elizabeth was at home eating ice cream.

Furthermore, Elizabeth knew that her mom wasn't 100% healthy - she had to have known. I doubt that she would deliberately do something that would upset and worry her mother. It was Heather, after all, that knew her daughter would not go missing like she did. Heather went to the police just before 2 and they were last seen near home at 12:15. That's just over an hour.
 
I agree it would be risky to stage the bikes.

My theory is that the girls were taken from the lake and the bikes were not staged.

But obviously that doesn't keep me from speculating about other theories, LOL.

In which direction do you think they were riding, East or West? Here's the trail

meyerslaketrailrelake.jpg
 
I agree it would be risky to stage the bikes.

My theory is that the girls were taken from the lake and the bikes were not staged.

But obviously that doesn't keep me from speculating about other theories, LOL.

It's risky to kidnap two children in broad daylight near a main street and several businesses on a Friday. Staging bikes is nothing after that.
 
I took it as her saying that if Elizabeth went somewhere, that she would call and let her parents know she was heading home before she left her current location so the parents could be watching for her.

That might be the case, I always had to call my mom when I arrived and departed from a friend's house when I was Lizzie's age. And that was decades ago, when things seemed safer.

I'm afraid the point I was trying to make in my original post is being overlooked. It wasn't whether or not Lizzie called, or whom she called. My point was that obviously Lizzie rode her bike further than one block from her house. And she did it often enough that her parents had implemented rules for her to follow when she did so.

Therefore, if she did ride further than a block from home, where did she go, who did she visit, what route did she take, who did she come into contact with? This isn't anything I've seen addressed before by LE or in MSM, but to me that would be important information. Because while she was out of her parents' watchful eyes, she could have biked past some sicko's house often enough to catch his attention.

After all, we don't know if it was Lizzie, Lyric or both who were targeted by the perp. Many have speculated about Lyric and her possible exposure to the unsavory acquaintances of one or both of her parents. But couldn't it be just as likely that Lizzie was spotted biking alone by some pedophile?

Again, just throwing out some ideas. And jumping off your post, not necessarily directing these comments to you specifically.
 
This is kind of a weird map, but the highlighted building is the Caseys near River Forest Road and Gilbert. This is based on the white van that was seen at that location ... a white van that has been eliminated.

MeyersWC.jpg
 
That might be the case, I always had to call my mom when I arrived and departed from a friend's house when I was Lizzie's age. And that was decades ago, when things seemed safer.

I'm afraid the point I was trying to make in my original post is being overlooked. It wasn't whether or not Lizzie called, or whom she called. My point was that obviously Lizzie rode her bike further than one block from her house. And she did it often enough that her parents had implemented rules for her to follow when she did so.

Therefore, if she did ride further than a block from home, where did she go, who did she visit, what route did she take, who did she come into contact with? This isn't anything I've seen addressed before by LE or in MSM, but to me that would be important information. Because while she was out of her parents' watchful eyes, she could have biked past some sicko's house often enough to catch his attention.

After all, we don't know if it was Lizzie, Lyric or both who were targeted by the perp. Many have speculated about Lyric and her possible exposure to the unsavory acquaintances of one or both of her parents. But couldn't it be just as likely that Lizzie was spotted biking alone by some pedophile?

Again, just throwing out some ideas. And jumping off your post, not necessarily directing these comments to you specifically.

Lyric didn't live in the area. This seems like such a carefully planned event that it could have been any one or two available children, just like Jessica Ridgeway and Viktoria Stafford. Maybe the first thought was to take one victim to Maiden Lane to assault her, but with two, the plan changed.
 
It's risky to kidnap two children in broad daylight near a main street and several businesses on a Friday. Staging bikes is nothing after that.

Very true. If one is to believe the bikes were staged, then in comparison to abducting two girls, the staging would be nothing
 
Lyric didn't live in the area. This seems like such a carefully planned event that it could have been any one or two available children, just like Jessica Ridgeway and Viktoria Stafford. Maybe the first thought was to take one victim to Maiden Lane to assault her, but with two, the plan changed.

It does seem it was carefully planned. Although Lyric spent quite a bit of time in the area, but did not live there, it seems logical to consider the possibility that Lizzie was targeted and Lyric was a "bonus".
 
In which direction do you think they were riding, East or West? Here's the trail

meyerslaketrailrelake.jpg

I think maybe they took Gilbert to Elmer, then went west on the trail.

ETA: When I read your post, my gut tightened up like I was being given a pop quiz! Not being snarky, I just thought my reaction was funny.
 
It does seem it was carefully planned. Although Lyric spent quite a bit of time in the area, but did not live there, it seems logical to consider the possibility that Lizzie was targeted and Lyric was a "bonus".

Maybe neither child was targeted because of being Elizabeth or Lyric. What if they were targeted because someone wanted to abduct a child that afternoon and the opportunity presented itself with Elizabeth and Lyric. What if the perp was looking to abduct one child and got two instead. What if the perp first intended to assault one victim at Maiden Lane, but with two children, the plan changed and he ditched the bikes and went on to 7 Bridges Park. That, without a doubt, is a local.

If the plan was originally to assault one child in Maiden Lane ... I wonder how that factors into the perp's "comfort zone".
 
I think maybe they took Gilbert to Elmer, then went west on the trail.

If the theory is that the girls were abducted at the location where the bikes were found, it has to make sense - meaning, there must be a idea about how they got there.

That makes for a rather long bike ride - 30+ minutes away from home. I doubt that Elizabeth would have done this given the circumstances.
 
Just wishing that something, anything, will be released by LE...that may help...

Somewhat like the Colorado LE / press release on "the Cross' found in Jessica Ridgeway's case...

Something, anything...please...
 
Maybe neither child was targeted because of being Elizabeth or Lyric. What if they were targeted because someone wanted to abduct a child that afternoon and the opportunity presented itself with Elizabeth and Lyric. What if the perp was looking to abduct one child and got two instead. What if the perp first intended to assault one victim at Maiden Lane, but with two children, the plan changed and he ditched the bikes and went on to 7 Bridges Park. That, without a doubt, is a local.

If the plan was originally to assault one child in Maiden Lane ... I wonder how that factors into the perp's "comfort zone".

I think it's possible that neither girl was targeted, they just happened to be in the same place a pedophile was lurking. And I definitely think the perp is local, because it seems both Meyers Lake trail and Seven Bridges Park are places a local would know about. A pedophile passing through town might have followed the girls to Meyers Lake, but I doubt he would have known about Seven Bridges Park.

I don't know much about comfort zones, so I'm not sure how two girls vs. one girl would factor in.
 
I think it's possible that neither girl was targeted, they just happened to be in the same place a pedophile was lurking. And I definitely think the perp is local, because it seems both Meyers Lake trail and Seven Bridges Park are places a local would know about. A pedophile passing through town might have followed the girls to Meyers Lake, but I doubt he would have known about Seven Bridges Park.

I don't know much about comfort zones, so I'm not sure how two girls vs. one girl would factor in.

I'm thinking comfort zones in terms of abducting a child in Evandale, assualting that child at Maiden Lane, all of this possibly being done close enough to home so the perp could make a run for it (short driving distance) if necessary (think of Austin Sigg and his first attack in a nearby park) ... but it changed when there were two. That pushed the perp to another comfort zone - 7 Bridges County Park.

If the comfort zones are Brovan and Maiden Lane, with a second comfort zone 20 miles away in a more secluded and rarely used location, I'm wondering how that factors into where the perp lives.

Maybe Waterloo? North of Lafayette?
 
I think leaving the bikes and purse was purposeful, as initial searches would logically be in the area where they were found. Meanwhile, the perp was getting miles away in his vehicle. Kind of what I think happened with Holly Bobo as well. Items left or tossed, Holly being driven out of the immediate area so that perp could "spend time" with her in private before...whatever came next. And all immediate searching was taking place back where the items were found.
 
In terms of believing that the girls were abducted at that location, it has to make sense - meaning, there must be a idea about how they got there.

That makes for a rather long bike ride - 30+ minutes away from home. I doubt that Elizabeth would have done this given the circumstances.

But if Mr. C is to be believed, she routinely biked that far every night, or at least as far as his block. And if her mother is to be believed, Lizzie did venture further away from home than one block. Without any evidence or info from LE, all I can do is guess right along with you and everyone else.

We don't know what kind of dynamics were in play between the Lyric and Lizzie that day. While one of them alone might never have dared to ride to the lake, together they may have thought of it as an adventure - get there quickly and return home before Grandma had to leave. Maybe they weren't as aware of time as an adult would be. Maybe one of them just took off, and the other followed not knowing where they were going. Again, all we can do is speculate/guess.

Nothing about this case makes sense, but I know I am not alone in believing the girls were abducted from Meyers Lake. I don't know exactly how they got there, who does? There is more than one possibility, after all.
 
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