IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[Dr. Know?]

Thank you Tennlyn for info, andyou are absolutely correct. I did some checks on RSO's and I have found 4 with address of <modsnip> Larrabee Avenue, Denver, Iowa which looks to be like a trailer park south of Denver. From <modsnip> Larrabee Avenue to Seven Bridges Park (<modsnip> 270th Street, Readlyn, Iowa) it shows 15.33 miles/22 minutes, (Seven Bridges is almost straight east of the Larrabee address). Wasn't TB's last name at one time the same as one of these RSO's?? :waitasec:

I don't know if we can post addresses but don't think so. You can do 3000 block etc..

Anyway, if you check back to right after the girls were found, you will see a lot of talk about RSO's located in Evansdale (well, Eville has been discussed since the beginning as well as CF & Waterloo etc...) but Redlyn & Denver RSO's came up when they were found. I found one I think in Redlyn, with the last name of one of TB's ex's.

 

[rachaellouise]

Merry Christmas Elizabeth and Lyric. You should be at home with your families opening up all your presents.

 

[NWLady]

I don't know if we can post addresses but don't think so. You can do 3000 block etc..

Anyway, if you check back to right after the girls were found, you will see a lot of talk about RSO's located in Evansdale (well, Eville has been discussed since the beginning as well as CF & Waterloo etc...) but Redlyn & Denver RSO's came up when they were found. I found one I think in Redlyn, with the last name of one of TB's ex's.

Thank you Dr. Know? for heads up on rules, I did read them prior to my post and thought it was okay but to be safe I did edit my post #877 and I appreciate and respect you for bringing it to my attention. The only problem is now that I don't know how to delete my quote that is highlighted in your response to me. Help! Before I get sent to naughty chair :banghead:

 

[chicagofa13]

Thank you Dr. Know? for heads up on rules, I did read them prior to my post and thought it was okay but to be safe I did edit my post #877 and I appreciate and respect you for bringing it to my attention. The only problem is now that I don't know how to delete my quote that is highlighted in your response to me. Help! Before I get sent to naughty chair :banghead:

Just use the alert button on the post with the quote and tell a mod what happened, they will fix it for you. It is the triangle symbol on the far right of the post.

 

[csziggy]

Catching up on Lizzie and Lyric's case.

I was thinking about Otto's timeline in this post:

Every time I try to figure out where this happened, I come back to the area around the Collin's home.

I've read varying times that the girls first went for a bike ride, so it was somewhere between 11:30 and 12. We know that the girls remained close to home unti 12:15, per the video camera. There are apparently two other sightings that may or may not be valid. One is on Brovan Blvd (in front of the house) at 12:23 and the other is at Gilbert and Elmer between 12:30 and 1 PM.

If the girls were riding bikes near the house for at least 15 minutes, doing exactly what they were allowed to do, why would they suddenly - shortly before they were expected to go home, decide to ride to Meyers Lake, park their bikes at a drainage gate, go through the gate, leave the purse on the ground, and disappear? That just doesn't add up for me. First, if they wanted to take off to the lake, why didn't they do it right away when they started their bike ride - why wait at least 15-23 minutes? Secondly, if they wanted to go to the lake, why were they riding towards River Forest Road when several other roads are safer and faster? Third, if they decided to take off on their bikes knowing that Wylma had to leave for an appointment soon, why would they park their bikes, go through the gate, put down the purse and do anything ... that is, a quick ride to the park and back is one thing, but the bikes/purse give the impression that they were dawdling, exploring, passing the time without concern for the consequences.

Because of the above points, I am inclined to think that they were taken at the corner of Brovan Blvd and River Forest Road and that someone carefully and deliberately staged the bikes and purse based on the assumption that the girls would not be missed for some time ... that when the bikes and purse were found, everyone would assume they were on an afternoon bike ride and happened to stop at that location to explore the area.

BBM

Then I looked at his wonderful maps:

This shows the Caseys in Evansdale and the body location in relation to Evansdale. The Caseys near Lafayette is about a block from Heather and Drew's house. The Caseys on River Forest Road is where the white van was seen - excluded as a possible suspect.

This shows times and area between home and bikes

This shows home, bikes and bodies with distances and dashed lines along possible routes. Home and bikes are the bottom two dots.

Respectfully edited for space.

Could the girls have gone to the Caseys nearest the home for a specific item, not found what they wanted, were told it could be found at the Caseys south on River Forest Road, and decided to dash down to get whatever it was they wanted?

Hmmm, I just looked at the Caseys site and it looks like just a food store, not a real 'general store' which would carry other merchandise. So I am not sure what they could want right then that would make it worth riding blocks to get. Maybe to use a coupon for a food item?

Even if the girls did ride down to the River Forest Road Caseys, why then would they have ridden east to the corner of Gilbert and Elmer unless they thought about taking the nature trail back north?

Just thinking off the top of my head. JMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

Could the girls have gone to the Caseys nearest the home for a specific item, not found what they wanted, were told it could be found at the Caseys south on River Forest Road, and decided to dash down to get whatever it was they wanted?

Hmmm, I just looked at the Caseys site and it looks like just a food store, not a real 'general store' which would carry other merchandise. So I am not sure what they could want right then that would make it worth riding blocks to get. Maybe to use a coupon for a food item?

Even if the girls did ride down to the River Forest Road Caseys, why then would they have ridden east to the corner of Gilbert and Elmer unless they thought about taking the nature trail back north?

Just thinking off the top of my head. JMO

SBM

For those outside the area that Casey's saturates, Casey's is a combo gas station and convenience store. They have a few prepared foods like hot dogs, doughnuts and pizza slices. They have fountain drinks that go from large for a small to ginormous for the largest size. Additionally they carry tons of junk food, canned sodas, etc.

They sell a few automobile items like wash solution, DW-20, etc.

Similar chains are *advertiser censored*'n'Go, Handi-Mart, 7-11, etc.

The Casey's in an area like Evansdale are all served by the same delivery trucks, so what one has, they all have. Since they are all served on the same day, it's likely that if one Casey's runs out, the others in the same area will also be out.

I can't ever remember seeing an actual coupon for Casey's but in my town, when you buy at Hy-Vee (grocery store chain), they add so much to your Casey's fuel card for every dollar you spend.

 

[Squeeze]

Merry Christmas Elizabeth and Lyric. You should be at home with your families opening up all your presents.

They are with their families, just not the way they should be.

 

[Squeeze]

Just FYI, its a Pronto on the corner of River Forest and Lafayette, not a Casey's.

 

[hollyblue]

The following snippet is basically the same info:

“Today marks two months since the disappearance of 11-year-old Lyric Cook and 9-year-old Elizabeth Collins,” Rick Abben, chief deputy at the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Office, said in a statement Thursday. “Both girls were last seen on July 13 at 12:15 p.m. riding their bicycles away from the Collins residence in Evansdale. We have information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert DR. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale.”

BBM

The surveillance video from the auction house showed a time of 12:11 p.m., but according to Mr. Pahl, the camera was about 8 minutes off. That would make the time about 12:19 p.m.

So if the girls were seen around 12:23 p.m. on Brovan, that was after they passed the auction house. From there, witnesses saw them between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert Drive. I wonder if this ties in with Mr. Carpenter's sighting.

If the above times are right, then TG's sighting of the bikes couldn't have occurred on the day he thought it did. The timing just wouldn't fit in with the above times released by LE. JMO

And if the above times are correct, I do not think the girls were abducted near the Collins' house. I think they went to the lake that day, on a lark or for some other reason, and were abducted from there. JMO

ETA: Yikes, I forgot to include the link:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-missing-2-months-authorities-plead-for-help/

Catching up on some older posts, but can we again confirm the time Wylma was to leave to meet up with Tammy? Wasn't it 1:30 ......or someone please refresh my memory. TIA

 

[Mustang Sally]

Thinking of Elizabeth and Lyric's Families....

Spending Christmas With Jesus

I see the countless Christmas trees around the world below
With tiny lights like Heaven's stars reflecting the snow.
The sight is so spectacular- please wipe away the tear
For I'm spending Christmas with Jesus this year.

I hear the many Christmas songs that people hold so dear
But the sound of music can't compare with the Christmas choir up here
I have no words to tell you the joys their voices bring
For it's beyond description to hear the angels sing.

I know how much you miss me, I see the pain inside your heart
But I am not so far away, we really aren't apart.
So be happy for me dear ones you know I hold you dear
And be glad I'm spending Christmas with Jesus Christ this year.

I sent you each a special gift for my heavenly home above,
I sent you each a memory of my undying love.
After all love is a gift more precious than pure gold.
It was always most important in the stories Jesus told.

Please love and keep each other as my Father said to do.
For I can't count the blessing of love he has for each of you.
So have a merry Christmas and wipe away that tear.
Remember I am spending Christmas with Jesus Christ this year.

Author Unkown

Dear God...Please Bring Justice For Elizabeth and Lyric!

 

[otto]

Merry Christmas ... -30s with the wind chill here, but not too cold for the birds.
Photo taken this morning ... thinking of Elizabeth and Lyric

 

[GrainneDhu]

Catching up on some older posts, but can we again confirm the time Wylma was to leave to meet up with Tammy? Wasn't it 1:30 ......or someone please refresh my memory. TIA

I thought Grandma Wylma was due to meet up with Aunt TB at Grandma Wylma's home in Waterloo at 1:30.

 

[foxbluff]

Heather and Drew Collins, Elizabeth's father, said at a news conference prior to the memorial service that their faith in God is stronger than ever. Heather Collins said she knows God was with the girls, whose remains were found in a wooded area about 25 miles from Evansdale, where the girls were last seen.
"We know God was with them the whole entire time," she said. "We know where they are now. They're in such a much better place. They're going to have such a much better Christmas than we are." <end quote>
####################################################################

I very simply don't have that kind of faith... wish I did.

 

[otto]

I thought Grandma Wylma was due to meet up with Aunt TB at Grandma Wylma's home in Waterloo at 1:30.

I don't know where I got this idea, but I thought the girls were expected to be home by 12:30. Found this:

"Cook said she is "praying so hard" for the girls' safety while picking over the details of the day she last saw them, when they left for a bike ride at 11:30 a.m.

Cook said Lyric knew she had to return home shortly because Lyric and Cook planned to leave for the home they shared in nearby Waterloo with Lyric's mother, Misty Morrissey, by 1:30 p.m. Cook said she expected the girls to return for lunch or a drink of water or juice as they always did when they were playing in the heat.

"That's what's just so strange about all of it," she said.

Cook said she got nervous when they weren't back by 12:30 p.m. and started driving around town looking for them. After an hour of searching, she returned to the home. Cook said that Misty Morrissey stopped by after getting off work.

"Misty said, `Mom, you go home and I'll just wait for Lyric and bring her home," Cook recalled.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/wylma-cook-iowa-cousins_n_1699780.html

I still don't understand why, if they first went for a bike ride at 11:30, they would wait until 12:23 to break the rules since they knew that they were expected at home 7 minutes later. That doesn't add up for me ... re-inforcing my opinion that they did not decide to take off, but that they were taken shortly after they were seen on video heading West on Brovan Blvd. The other thing that doesn't work for me is that Elizabeth's mom was at the doctor, her father was at home sick, and her grandmother had an appointment ... that meant not only getting in a lot of trouble from the grandmother, but also from both parents.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know where I got this idea, but I thought the girls were expected to be home by 12:30. Found this:

"Cook said she is "praying so hard" for the girls' safety while picking over the details of the day she last saw them, when they left for a bike ride at 11:30 a.m.

Cook said Lyric knew she had to return home shortly because Lyric and Cook planned to leave for the home they shared in nearby Waterloo with Lyric's mother, Misty Morrissey, by 1:30 p.m. Cook said she expected the girls to return for lunch or a drink of water or juice as they always did when they were playing in the heat.

"That's what's just so strange about all of it," she said.

Cook said she got nervous when they weren't back by 12:30 p.m. and started driving around town looking for them. After an hour of searching, she returned to the home. Cook said that Misty Morrissey stopped by after getting off work.

"Misty said, `Mom, you go home and I'll just wait for Lyric and bring her home," Cook recalled.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/wylma-cook-iowa-cousins_n_1699780.html

I still don't understand why, if they first went for a bike ride at 11:30, they would wait until 12:23 to break the rules since they knew that they were expected at home 7 minutes later. That doesn't add up for me ... re-inforcing my opinion that they did not decide to take off, but that they were taken shortly after they were seen on video heading West on Brovan Blvd. The other thing that doesn't work for me is that Elizabeth's mom was at the doctor, her father was at home sick, and her grandmother had an appointment ... that meant not only getting in a lot of trouble from the grandmother, but also from both parents.

Wasn't Drew at work?

:waitasec:

 

[otto]

Wasn't Drew at work?

:waitasec:

I don't know. It was posted earlier that he was at home sick, so I assumed that was true.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Gramma spoke of waiting around for him to get home so she could go out and search.

And this day, they just didn`t come back. And so Kelly (ph), Elizabeth`s brother, he`s 12 -- I hopped in my car because the dad came home, and I went searching Elk Run. We were down by Meyers Lake. We drove all over every little park and Evansdale, Elk Run, every mentionable place, downtown area. And we couldn`t find nobody.


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't know where I got this idea, but I thought the girls were expected to be home by 12:30. Found this:

"Cook said she is "praying so hard" for the girls' safety while picking over the details of the day she last saw them, when they left for a bike ride at 11:30 a.m.

Cook said Lyric knew she had to return home shortly because Lyric and Cook planned to leave for the home they shared in nearby Waterloo with Lyric's mother, Misty Morrissey, by 1:30 p.m. Cook said she expected the girls to return for lunch or a drink of water or juice as they always did when they were playing in the heat.

"That's what's just so strange about all of it," she said.

Cook said she got nervous when they weren't back by 12:30 p.m. and started driving around town looking for them. After an hour of searching, she returned to the home. Cook said that Misty Morrissey stopped by after getting off work.

"Misty said, `Mom, you go home and I'll just wait for Lyric and bring her home," Cook recalled.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/wylma-cook-iowa-cousins_n_1699780.html

I still don't understand why, if they first went for a bike ride at 11:30, they would wait until 12:23 to break the rules since they knew that they were expected at home 7 minutes later. That doesn't add up for me ... re-inforcing my opinion that they did not decide to take off, but that they were taken shortly after they were seen on video heading West on Brovan Blvd. The other thing that doesn't work for me is that Elizabeth's mom was at the doctor, her father was at home sick, and her grandmother had an appointment ... that meant not only getting in a lot of trouble from the grandmother, but also from both parents.

From my point of view, the two statements are not contradictory. If Grandma Wylma was planning to meet Aunt TB at 1:30, it makes sense to me that she would tell the girls to be back at 12:30. Kids are an incredible time suck and everything takes 3 times longer than it would take a single adult to do it.

And that's on a good day.

If I am correct, what Grandma Wylma probably anticipated was having the girls home at 12:30. Then the girls would both want drinks and snacks (if not a full lunch), then it would be chivvying Lyric to get the stuff Lyric brought over to the Collins home. And then the last minute "oh, wait, I need to use the bathroom!" She probably hoped to be actually pulling out of the Collins driveway at 1:00, home by 1:15 or so, just enough time to catch her breath and be sure she'd be on time for Aunt TB.

As for why the girls went to Meyer's Lake? I think that will probably remain a mystery. I think there are a slew of possible innocent explanations but the only two people who knew the real reason why are dead.

Why do I think the girls were at Meyer's Lake? Because LE has multiple eyewitnesses placing them in the vicinity from 12:30 to 1:00 pm. Because their bicycles and Elizabeth's purse were found there. Because the two Bloodhounds the FBI flew in found scent away from the bicycles.

And because I think actual evidence trumps psychological theory.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't know. It was posted earlier that he was at home sick, so I assumed that was true.

I don't recall any msm stories that said Drew was sick that day. The only reference to Drew was in the context of his being at home when Grandma Wylma started searching for the girls. Which coincided with when he would have had to come home if Lyric and Elizabeth hadn't disappeared (handing off kids from one person to another always takes time; like anything to do with kids, it's a massive time suck).

 

[Sere-nity]

Why do I think the girls were at Meyer's Lake? Because LE has multiple eyewitnesses placing them in the vicinity from 12:30 to 1:00 pm. Because their bicycles and Elizabeth's purse were found there. Because the two Bloodhounds the FBI flew in found scent away from the bicycles.

What if they were seen there, but not alone?

What if they were kidnapped by where they were last seen on video and then taken towards the lake?