IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

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O/T..This is off track/off topic (whichever O/T stands for), but can anyone tell me how to find threads in the "basement" pertaining to lyric and elizabeth? I can find a few that I have read, I believe #2, 4, 9, and 10, but can't find ones in between, such as 1, 3, and so on. I do not know how to private message anyone to ask this and everybody here is always so helpful, hence the reason I'm asking here.
(I do realize we don't discuss "basement" here, etc., all I need to know is how to maneuver around to read the old ones)
Thanking all of you in advance for your help, (once again, twice again, on and on, lol)
 
You are talking about someone who 'plies his trade'. MUST HAVE SOME
KIND OF RECORD! PRINTS ON FILE! DNA ON FILE? HAS A REPUTATION.
His first child murders? ...... would a veterinarian have seen his work
before or know of him? Has a Facebook page? Is into torture? Word
assosciatation search traced to the Evansdale isp area?

A functioning person or otherwise ... ?

Im looking for tangibles.

There aren't any. Animal killings in a farm area may go mostly unnoticed.
 
O/T..This is off track/off topic (whichever O/T stands for), but can anyone tell me how to find threads in the "basement" pertaining to lyric and elizabeth? I can find a few that I have read, I believe #2, 4, 9, and 10, but can't find ones in between, such as 1, 3, and so on. I do not know how to private message anyone to ask this and everybody here is always so helpful, hence the reason I'm asking here.
(I do realize we don't discuss "basement" here, etc., all I need to know is how to maneuver around to read the old ones)
Thanking all of you in advance for your help, (once again, twice again, on and on, lol)

If you mean the earlier threads, they're all linked in the first comment in this thread ... but I don't know anything about basement threads.
 
I'm not accusing Drew in anyway, but the question of "Did he feel guilty?" really shocked me in their long interview. It was so out of left field, imo. Being the caring and good hearted people they are, maybe Drew did hired a shady character in good faith...or became friends with them? I'm sure everyone is a POI to them also. I would be giving everyone in my own, my family's and my friend's circles a good eye-balling until it/they are caught, IMO. It must be pure hell for Drew. The man is obviously emotionally crushed. ((((hugs))))

BBM

The part I bolded is one of the main reasons I feel strongly that justice is not for the dead, it is for the living.

It is the innocent living who suffer when a murderer goes uncaught. The Collinses deserve to be able to go to sleep every night feeling confident that no one in their circle of people is guilty rather than having that question in the back of their minds about practically everyone they've ever so much as seen at the gas station.

The innocent deserve to go about their lives untainted by suspicious looks and horrendous rumours on the internet.

The whole community needs to know so that people can start re-growing their peace.
 
Otto I'm in the same boat! Not one certain anything except for that video.

One thing did strike me watching that super-excellent video of the drive
to 7-Bridges or whatever its called... look at the amount of time it took
for that man who knew where he was going to get into the place
near where the bodies were found. Much much more time than I supposed
having never been there. And in htis matter, TIME = RISK to whoever
had the nerve to drive those girls there, plus whatever amount of time
he spent there with the girls. Farms visible from the road in! Maybe if the
girls were taken there at night it's less risk? It just strikes me that the
perp took risk, maybe great risk of exposure by one means or another,
and that to my mind equals super-crazy or guts!

Like the gentleman in the movie said: "no feelings". Such a person might have
a record for animal abuse, child abuse, spousal abuse .... and the like? Someone
literally (as the gentleman said) with "no feelings". Or someone with his life at stake
in some way, because of these girls, and something they may have wandered into
and seen on their ride?

Georger, I don't know why I'm laughing but I am. Maybe it's because to get to my house from the nearest tiny town involves a lot more gravel than that and to get to my house from the next nearest small town also involves a lot more gravel than that. That's just what it is like to live out in the country.

The video is deceptive in that last summer, the whole area would have been green on green on green with lush growth. That little gravel road into the park would have seemed like a tunnel arched over with tree limbs. I think to someone not familiar with the upper Mississippi basin, the landscape in that video probably looks desolate but to me, it looks peaceful and calm. All summer, everything grows so fast and the land is so active and then in late fall, the land sort of takes a deep breath and goes to sleep for a few months.

I didn't go back to look on the video but I seem to recall that it looked like the field they were walking next to had been in corn last year (lots of debris on the ground to cut down on wind erosion). In the middle of last July, the corn would have been 5-7 feet high, which would provide plenty of cover for a vehicle driven in there.

If the video was at the correct spot (which I'm not sure of because it seemed to me like they'd gotten further from the river), Mr M was correct in pointing out that someone could have driven a vehicle down the conservation strip where the group was video'd walking. At that point, the first cutting of hay would have been down and then growth slowed radically due to heat and drought. Normally, first cut of hay can be done about the middle of June and then second cut would be sometime in the last half of July.

But last spring was warm and mild, so first cut of hay was a month early(!!!). And then the extreme heat and drought delayed hay growth to the point where some fields didn't get a second cut of hay until late August or early September (which is when third cut is usually done) and some fields never did come back well enough to be worth doing a second cut.

The ground in that conservation strip would have been quite firm and easily driven over. The corn would have hidden a vehicle, even most SUVs.

Nighttime would have actually been higher risk than during the day because vehicle lights would be easily seen and would look out of place. Even if someone turned off their headlights, their taillights would flash every time they stepped on the brake. If someone saw red taillights without corresponding headlights, they would have been more likely to go out and look because that's just a dead giveaway of someone up to no good.
 
In assessing risk, it's important for people to remember that psychopaths do not process fear and risk the same way normal people do.

Research done on the brains of psychopaths shows that they have a muted response to pain compared to normal people. They also have a muted response to the anticipation of pain. There was a study done in the early 2000s where test subjects held their hand on a metal plate; when a light flashed and a tone sounded, it meant that the plate would get uncomfortably hot within something like 5 seconds. Normal people quickly started showing a heightened emotional response on brain scan when the light and tone sounded, in anticipation of the discomfort to follow. Pscyhopaths showed no heightened response at all, no anticipation of the discomfort.

Studies suggest that psychopaths tend to have muted emotional responses overall. They don't feel emotions as intensely and they don't anticipate discomfort at all.

Another study I found fascinating was from WWII, when the military decided to try out psychopaths as fighter pilots because they showed great tenacity in going after an enemy plane and a lack of fear in doing so. The military discovered that sure, psychopaths could get so wrapped up in pursuit of an enemy aircraft that they would risk crashing themselves. But they were also careless, poor team players (which is important in air combat) and they would do things that they knew carried a high risk of crashing and death just for giggles. The psychopath unit of pilots was actually a greater danger to their own side than they were to the enemy.

Some research suggests that psychopaths may actually be seeking out situations that involve intense emotional states for normal people because it just feels good to them. They don't get that intensity in their emotional response to daily life, so they will literally risk their own lives in order to feel it.

In trying to decide if a given scenario is too risky, just keep in mind that there's not much that is too risky for the sort of person who would crash the plane they were flying just for the fun of it.
 
Just a clip thought you may find interesting in case you haven't seen it. includes video of the park itself, etc.

MISSING NO MORE: Readlyn man hunted near site where Evansdale cousins were found - YouTube

Relooking at this video, Starting at 3:56, The newscaster asks the man if there have been any other murders at 7 bridges. The man recalls in the late 90's the news stated some articles of clothing were dumped out there from a murder he believes happened in Waterloo.

Then I found this too, about something recovered at 7 bridges having to do with ANOTHER murder.

Part of the article below: Less than a week later after the shooting, Keys' girlfriend led police to Seven Bridges Park, a wooded area with a campground between Readlyn and Dunkerton where the Glock had been tossed into the Wapsipinicon River and Keys' bloody clothes had been burned

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ho...cle_0ffcf72a-8c88-59c6-834b-27c7e711cb53.html
 
There must be something that made them accuse Dan of lying.

Note how Drew and Heather were treated. Chalk and cheese.

LE do not harrass and interrogate grieving parents like that just for the fun of it. There must be something that red flagged Misty and Dan, something more than their criminal records as Heather and Drew had records also.

:cow:

Agreed, but to suggest that scrutiny is a result of some forensic result relating to the bikes is speculation and speculation alone. It is not supported by anything factual. and that was the point I was trying to make. It is a leap that has no basis in fact. MOO

It is far more likely IMO that the scrutiny was the result of the criminal history and not as a direct result of forensic findings (if any) on the bikes.

As pointed out, Heather and Drew had minor criminal history but Misty and Dan's goes beyond minor infractions into some pretty serious charges. THAT difference alone explains for me the different treatment each couple received in terms of police scrutiny after the abduction. Not some maybe/possible speculated upon forensics from bikes.
 
O/T..This is off track/off topic (whichever O/T stands for), but can anyone tell me how to find threads in the "basement" pertaining to lyric and elizabeth? I can find a few that I have read, I believe #2, 4, 9, and 10, but can't find ones in between, such as 1, 3, and so on. I do not know how to private message anyone to ask this and everybody here is always so helpful, hence the reason I'm asking here.
(I do realize we don't discuss "basement" here, etc., all I need to know is how to maneuver around to read the old ones)
Thanking all of you in advance for your help, (once again, twice again, on and on, lol)


If you do a search on 'scanner thread lyric' (not in quotes) they should all be listed.
 
A helpful little bird told me about them...could it be possible that something more than just deer was caught on camera?

I can't believe how many hidden cameras there are in the world, even in the middle of nowhere it seems.

If a deer cam did capture the perp in action, it may be considered evidence and the police wouldn't want that compromised.
 
Georger, I don't know why I'm laughing but I am. Maybe it's because to get to my house from the nearest tiny town involves a lot more gravel than that and to get to my house from the next nearest small town also involves a lot more gravel than that. That's just what it is like to live out in the country.

The video is deceptive in that last summer, the whole area would have been green on green on green with lush growth. That little gravel road into the park would have seemed like a tunnel arched over with tree limbs. I think to someone not familiar with the upper Mississippi basin, the landscape in that video probably looks desolate but to me, it looks peaceful and calm. All summer, everything grows so fast and the land is so active and then in late fall, the land sort of takes a deep breath and goes to sleep for a few months.

I didn't go back to look on the video but I seem to recall that it looked like the field they were walking next to had been in corn last year (lots of debris on the ground to cut down on wind erosion). In the middle of last July, the corn would have been 5-7 feet high, which would provide plenty of cover for a vehicle driven in there.

If the video was at the correct spot (which I'm not sure of because it seemed to me like they'd gotten further from the river), Mr M was correct in pointing out that someone could have driven a vehicle down the conservation strip where the group was video'd walking. At that point, the first cutting of hay would have been down and then growth slowed radically due to heat and drought. Normally, first cut of hay can be done about the middle of June and then second cut would be sometime in the last half of July.

But last spring was warm and mild, so first cut of hay was a month early(!!!). And then the extreme heat and drought delayed hay growth to the point where some fields didn't get a second cut of hay until late August or early September (which is when third cut is usually done) and some fields never did come back well enough to be worth doing a second cut.

The ground in that conservation strip would have been quite firm and easily driven over. The corn would have hidden a vehicle, even most SUVs.

Nighttime would have actually been higher risk than during the day because vehicle lights would be easily seen and would look out of place. Even if someone turned off their headlights, their taillights would flash every time they stepped on the brake. If someone saw red taillights without corresponding headlights, they would have been more likely to go out and look because that's just a dead giveaway of someone up to no good.

Back in high school, I used to go to a park similar to 7 Bridges but in Nebraska. Long drive into the country on roads with corn on either side and then the quiet woods. You'd think there was no one else on the planet. It felt very private even in broad daylight.

I haven't noticed this mentioned yet, but the parks like that in Nebraska are well-known to Boy Scouts (past and present).

ETA: GrainneDhu - Just wanted to say how much I enjoy your posts!!! Always well-written, vivid, amusing, and thoughtful.
 
If the theory is that the girls were abducted at the location where the bikes were found, it has to make sense - meaning, there must be a idea about how they got there.

That makes for a rather long bike ride - 30+ minutes away from home. I doubt that Elizabeth would have done this given the circumstances.


30 + minutes is quite a ride, had either of the girls been there on their bikes before this? For a STRANGER to abduct two girls AND their bikes in the middle of the day and not be noticed seems really odd. You would think the girls would have screamed or made some sort of a scene. But if they knew this person, no fuss would have been made, as in another post I read, someone could have told them one of their mothers was sick. I can't see the girls going with a stranger for ice cream, kids today are made aware of the "stranger danger" scene, it had to be something that touched them emotionally to draw them away, maybe the person used the excuse that he lost his dog at the lake, until the person is caught and confesses one may never know.
 
I have to say the 7 bridges video was chilling. It really brought up a lot of emotions in me.
 
30 + minutes is quite a ride, had either of the girls been there on their bikes before this? For a STRANGER to abduct two girls AND their bikes in the middle of the day and not be noticed seems really odd. You would think the girls would have screamed or made some sort of a scene. But if they knew this person, no fuss would have been made, as in another post I read, someone could have told them one of their mothers was sick. I can't see the girls going with a stranger for ice cream, kids today are made aware of the "stranger danger" scene, it had to be something that touched them emotionally to draw them away, maybe the person used the excuse that he lost his dog at the lake, until the person is caught and confesses one may never know.

I believe that the girls knew the perp, had met him on the bike trail on many occasions. A date was set to met up, maybe a horse ride. The girls went voluntarily.
 
I hope that LE took tire track impressions at 7 bridges.
 
my best friend was kidnapped in broad daylight by a stranger after she got off the transfer bus.

a complete stranger can do this...in a flash..

if lured, kids will go with strangers. It is sad but true.
 
Facts and Jmo.

#1. The girls were comfortable and felt friendly towards the perp at first.

#2. The perp is a local.

#3. The perp is very familiar with the area and has lived in the area of Waterloo, Evansdale,Dunkerton, Readlyn for many years.

#4. The perp is not a RSO, but had fantasies of child abduction and molestation. He finally fullfilled his fantasy.

#5. The perp is an avid hunter.

#6. The perp blends well into the community and has been regarded as a good citizen.


Remember, JMO.
 
All one has to do is to look at Drew and see what this has done to him. IMO Heather has had unimaginable faith and strength which has helped hold Drew up. They gave up their phones and computers right away to the FBI. I laughingly told Drew that I'd looked back at every text/email I'd sent him to see if there was anything disgusting in there. He's a very generous boss and often has given his employees multiple chances where others wouldn't. His company has a superb reputation around the area; that's how I first met Drew. We needed a tree taken down and were beyond happy with the job they did. We ran into each other some time later at the local arena where we both play hockey at and have become friends through the last couple years. I have read the many speculations and guesses as to what happened and we can all wear ourselves out throwing them out there. In the end, we may never know what happened... but I'm an optimist and hope that there will be some shred of evidence or someone will slip up and say something. The families of the girls need this solved. Until it is there is a killer/killers out there. Not something that is very comforting to say the least. That said, personally I feel it's someone from around here as 99% of the people in the area would have no idea where 7 Bridges was even located... me included... I'd heard of it but didn't know for sure where it was at. I pray each day that something will happen to lead to justice.

May I ask how Heather is doing? I hope she is home & feeling better now that her heart procedure is done. I have been praying for her & the family.
 
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