IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[NWLady]

Thanks, I didn't mean to be rude. :blushing: The welcome was for you; the question was to ya'll (or yous lol).

You weren't being rude; rather, I was just a little confused as to what you were asking me. :blushing:

 

[Tonto]

Has COD been determined yet? If not, will they even release it?

 

[artzypantz]

Has COD been determined yet? If not, will they even release it?

To my knowledge no COD has been released, no statement that it has been determined, but i could be wrong & missed it.

I wonder due to the fact misty wanted no media at Lyrics, funeral(?) and the Collins have said the do not want to know the COD, i wonder maybe they will not release a COD to the general public? add to that they were minors.....are parents able to stop that from being made public? due to the age of the victims & parental wishes?

Artzy

 

[Just Pat 22]

Sadly this is a disturbing reality of life. I never realized how many people are actually murdered and or sexually assaulted until i started following missing persons web sites. Its unbelievable how many occur every week, every day!

I also believe that some of these people who have killed have major mental changes due to Meth and hallucinogen drugs (or drugs that may cause them) (both pharmaceuticals and street). Others i think are born with a propensity for it, whether circumstancial or otherwise.

I have to work double time on positive thinking as to not become so brought down & depressed and negative by the things i read about. I like the "higher thoughts and higher energies", would gladly remake the world into the heavenly place.

I really give credit to those in medical and LE fields who manage to work with the horrible things in life & remain positive lights!

I really do believe the truth will come out in the girls case......i feel it will be solved in time.

Artzy

Artzy, that is a very good post you said it like it is . And it will be solved and the perp will get his due . I fully agree with what you said about the Meth it turns people into unfeeling monsters .

 

[otto]

To my knowledge no COD has been released, no statement that it has been determined, but i could be wrong & missed it.

I wonder due to the fact misty wanted no media at Lyrics, funeral(?) and the Collins have said the do not want to know the COD, i wonder maybe they will not release a COD to the general public? add to that they were minors.....are parents able to stop that from being made public? due to the age of the victims & parental wishes?

Artzy

The cause of death, if known, will be released at trial. Releasing that information now would add nothing to the investigation, especially if they don't have a murder weapon.

The media respected the family's wishes and did not report details of the funeral in the news. Media will report on the trial and the manner of death will be released.

 

[chicagofa13]

To my knowledge no COD has been released, no statement that it has been determined, but i could be wrong & missed it.

I wonder due to the fact misty wanted no media at Lyrics, funeral(?) and the Collins have said the do not want to know the COD, i wonder maybe they will not release a COD to the general public? add to that they were minors.....are parents able to stop that from being made public? due to the age of the victims & parental wishes?

Artzy

The prosecutors will be representing the victims and the State of Iowa (the people) at trial. It is extremely difficult for family to override this. Some victims have no family, or no family who care, yet they are still represented and details released.

 

[Reverie]

If they asked directions at Fareway store, the next question I have is, after arriving at Elmer/Gilbert (between 12:30-1:00), why didn't they ride into the parking area where there is a dock? Why go along Arbutus to perhaps cut across the grass (near the treed Maiden Lane area) to get to the SE tip of the lake? Given that the bikes were at the drainage gate lake, and assuming that the children put them there, then it really looks like they went through the gate, set down the purse and waited for someone or something. That takes me back to the shops along Brovan and the possibility that someone suggested that they go there for a reason that would be very interesting to two young girls ... lured with something - doesn't matter what.

Otto, I love reading all the plausibilities. It makes me wonder if it is possible that the perp/s gave them directions at Fareway, saw an opportunity, followed them or offered them a ride there?? Then dumped the bikes/ purse? Didn't the
Corn belt auctions video capture the girls carrying dark colored bags on their bikes? Would this mean that they'd already gotten directions and were racing toward River Forest Rd to get to somewhere? Meyers Lake? Or somewhere in between?

But then I think, this abduction does not seem spontaneous. It would seem to require much preparation. Locals, familiar with the area, who had lots of time to weigh their options?

 

[otto]

Artzy, that is a very good post you said it like it is . And it will be solved and the perp will get his due . I fully agree with what you said about the Meth it turns people into unfeeling monsters .

I know nothing about methamphetamines. When you say unfeeling, do you mean that the drug flattens a person's affect ... makes them emotionally flat?

 

[katydid23]

I know nothing about methamphetamines. When you say unfeeling, do you mean that the drug flattens a person's affect ... makes them emotionally flat?

Worse than 'flat', it actually makes someone cruel and heartless if they use it for a long time. IT accentuates everything, and makes a person CRAVE excess, and need MORE extreme experiences.

 

[otto]

Otto, I love reading all the plausibilities. It makes me wonder if it is possible that the perp/s gave them directions at Fareway, saw an opportunity, followed them or offered them a ride there?? Then dumped the bikes/ purse? Didn't the
Corn belt auctions video capture the girls carrying dark colored bags on their bikes? Would this mean that they'd already gotten directions and were racing toward River Forest Rd to get to somewhere? Meyers Lake? Or somewhere in between?

But then I think, this abduction does not seem spontaneous. It would seem to require much preparation. Locals, familiar with the area, who had lots of time to weigh their options?

According to police, the children were last seen at 12:15, and there is information that they were at 12:23 on Brovan Blvd and at 12:30-1:00 on Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus. Do you have a photo enlargement of the video with dark colored bags? I couldn't make anything out of the video footage, not even bike color.

I don't see this as a spontaneous event between two children cycling a mile away from home; where they're not allowed to go, when they're expected home any minute and they bump into somone on the most secluded part of the path who just happens to be a child kidnapper and murderer - and he just happens to have his vehicle hidden in the trees on nearby Maiden Lane. Apparently the only other people on that part of the trail were a cyclist at about 12:27 and a jogger at about 2:00. At 3:58 the bikes were found. I don't see that spontaneously happening. Either they were lured, or they were grabbed closer to home and the bikes were staged. The fact that the bikes were on one side of the fence, the purse on the other, adds to the staging theory.

... or, perhaps they were followed.

 

[otto]

Worse than 'flat', it actually makes someone cruel and heartless if they use it for a long time. IT accentuates everything, and makes a person CRAVE excess, and need MORE extreme experiences.

That doesn't sound very good. Thanks

 

[otto]

If they were followed, then they turned left on River Forest Road, headed towards the lake. Once they got to Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus, maybe the person that was following them told them to go down Arbutus to the lake trail. That would sound helpful, even from a stranger. He may have passed them before turning down the sewer pump road ... before they got on the trail. He would have visited the area ahead of time to pull that off.

That also fits with the theory that one or both girls more or less knew how to cycle to the lake, but didn't normally cycle all the way around?

 

[tlcya]

Is there a handy link to a fb page with the pics of Lyric's service?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/398693070208624/

Justice for Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook

 

[dotr]

Wondering if profilers think the perp is likely to be involved in domestic violence and/or sexual assault due to the stress of being a hunted murderer?
Would the perp look cold and mean as the alleged perp in this pic. might suggest?

http://globegazette.com/news/local/...cle_98383500-4ec2-11e2-92c7-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[threecrazykids]

It is easy for me. One sister who is oh-so-perfect and gets tons of attention for her health issues. And one sister who is bad to the bone, in and out of prison and gets tons of attention for drug problems.

So I will ask again... WHERE was Tammy that day until she showed up to help search?! (I've asked that for 6 months and nobody has been able to answer.)

You know, "Let's go to the lake," "The scent dogs hit over there," "The girls rode to the lake before," "I taught them stranger danger," "I gave Lyric my bike," -- THAT Tammy.

Just sayin'.

No one has been able to answer the question I don't think. I believe the only thing I read was that Wylma was leaving the Collins' to go meet Tammy when the girls went missing.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I know nothing about methamphetamines. When you say unfeeling, do you mean that the drug flattens a person's affect ... makes them emotionally flat?

Otto, you must go to your local video store or Netflix and rent season 1 of Breaking Bad. It is a good look at what meth does to people (and is also the best show on TV, hands down). With just one use, it permanently changes your brain chemistry. Yes, they become unable to process emotion. They forget to clean and bathe their children. Heck, they forget they HAVE children. They just STOP caring. All they care about is getting the next hit of meth.

 

[Just Pat 22]

I know nothing about methamphetamines. When you say unfeeling, do you mean that the drug flattens a person's affect ... makes them emotionally flat?

OT I lived next door to a very sweet young fello watched him grow up get on Meth and change to a person uncaring stealing his mothers microwave sell it for drugs robbing a Liquor store anda dairy outlet my next door neighbor on the other side her robbed her and punched her in the face and ran off only to get caught .Where I live now I wathced a elderly lady go beserk on meth become mean and unfeeling .They change in their thoughts and plan are really dangerous to be around . This is a senior building and drugs are rampart inside here.

 

[JaimeInLA]

According to police, the children were last seen at 12:15, and there is information that they were at 12:23 on Brovan Blvd and at 12:30-1:00 on Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus. Do you have a photo enlargement of the video with dark colored bags? I couldn't make anything out of the video footage, not even bike color.

I don't see this as a spontaneous event between two children cycling a mile away from home; where they're not allowed to go, when they're expected home any minute and they bump into somone on the most secluded part of the path who just happens to be a child kidnapper and murderer - and he just happens to have his vehicle hidden in the trees on nearby Maiden Lane. Apparently the only other people on that part of the trail were a cyclist at about 12:27 and a jogger at about 2:00. At 3:58 the bikes were found. I don't see that spontaneously happening. Either they were lured, or they were grabbed closer to home and the bikes were staged. The fact that the bikes were on one side of the fence, the purse on the other, adds to the staging theory.

... or, perhaps they were followed.

I 100% agree that the reason for going to the lake preceded asking for directions. Something happened between casually riding in circles around the block (12:15) and asking for directions (Before 12:30).

Do you have a link to show the sighting at 12:23 on Brovan? I know grandma saw them at 12:15-ish. And the video camera saw them at 12:11 (which was really 12:19, according to the owner). Who saw them at 12:23 on Brovan?

 

[otto]

I 100% agree that the reason for going to the lake preceded asking for directions. Something happened between casually riding in circles around the block (12:15) and asking for directions (Before 12:30).

Do you have a link to show the sighting at 12:23 on Brovan? I know grandma saw them at 12:15-ish. And the video camera saw them at 12:11 (which was really 12:19, according to the owner). Who saw them at 12:23 on Brovan?

We don't know that the children ever asked for directions and police certainly haven't mentioned that the children were seen anywhere near the Fareway store.

The children were on Brovan at 12:15. There is "information" that they were on Brovan at 12:23 and at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus between 12:30 and 1:00. That's it.

"Rick Abben, chief deputy at the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Office, said in a statement Thursday. “Both girls were last seen on July 13 at 12:15 p.m. riding their bicycles away from the Collins residence in Evansdale. We have information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert DR. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale.

...

“Law enforcement is asking for anyone that was in the Arbutus Ave. or Gilbert Dr. and Elmer Ave. areas or anywhere in Evansdale on that day that may have seen the girls to notify us,” he said.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-missing-2-months-authorities-plead-for-help/

 

[Mjskit]

I think denial plays a huge role for some relatives. They have suspicions and then they feel ashamed for having those suspicions because of course So-and-so would never do anything like that.

Another issue is normalisation. People who live with someone who is obviously abnormal (such as Austin Sigg) lose their sense of perspective on what normal really is. So when that person does something suspicious, it just seems like more 'normal' to their family.

For example, when I worked with victims of domestic violence, I would ask parents if they thought their children were safe with the perpetrator. Almost invariably they would say yes, he's a great father, he'd never hurt his kids. It wasn't until those victims had learned that simply witnessing abuse is abusive to children that they were able to say "you know, if I weren't there and the kids started acting up, I think he would resort to violence with them."



I don't know what is going on. I do think there is a good chance that whoever has that little piece of information does not realise what it is that they know in relationship to this case.

It is easy for me. One sister who is oh-so-perfect and gets tons of attention for her health issues. And one sister who is bad to the bone, in and out of prison and gets tons of attention for drug problems.

So I will ask again... WHERE was Tammy that day until she showed up to help search?! (I've asked that for 6 months and nobody has been able to answer.)

You know, "Let's go to the lake," "The scent dogs hit over there," "The girls rode to the lake before," "I taught them stranger danger," "I gave Lyric my bike," -- THAT Tammy.

Just sayin'.

Don't know the answer. Since we are not permitted to sleuth the family my guess is we will never know. Unless someone has checked her out on their own and wants to pm those of us who would like to know. I am on that list by the way.