IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[otto]

I'm sure the Chief of Police gets many emails. He probably doesn't have time to answer questions in depth, especially if it is to confirm information that LE has previously released. I think it was very nice of him to respond even briefly to someone's question about the timeline as busy as he must be.

A prosecutor will have been assigned to the case ... in my opinion, that's the person that will have the timeline sorted out, and that's usually the person that decides if mis-information will be released to the public.

 

[otto]

380 runs adjacent to Meyers Lake, if these photos and Google maps are correct.

Couldnt an abductor been on 380 with the girls in mere minutes?

Is there a nearby exit off 380 that would take the perp north(?) to
7-Bridges?

The road was under construction at the time of the abductions, so it was very slow, single lane traffic - not the first choice when abducting two children.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

In PA, there must be a suspect before the DA is assigned. I don't know if its different in other states, but LE gathers the evidence, decides if a crime has been committed, questions the subject and then takes it to the DA's office.

 

[georger]

I don't think LE wants the public to know where the girls were last seen. If they confirm that the girls were last seen on Brovan and the killer kidnapped them at the lake, the killer would then know he got away with it. Therefore, I really do believe last confirmed sighting is being withheld.

Absolutely agree! Not to mention the safety-for-all-concerned aspect.
I like your posts - will just say it. Thanks.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Absolutely agree! Not to mention the safety-for-all-concerned aspect.
I like your posts - will just say it. Thanks.

Thanks, georger! I'm going back through all of the times and places now that LE threw out there. No wonder why I was always confused with the timeline and such. Even watching all of the interviews with the family, there are inconsistencies with where everyone was and what time. It's all very confusing.

 

[superbee]

I have relatives who live on Elmer, and they built their house in the early 80s. The lake was there then. Also, 380 opened about the time I graduated from hs in '83. So if it was manmade, then it would be about 1979/80 or so.

Am I imagining things, or did I really read a post or posts on here months and months ago that the Lake was a quarry long, long ago? And dug out for fill when the big highway built, and the present Lake created?

 

[otto]

In PA, there must be a suspect before the DA is assigned. I don't know if its different in other states, but LE gathers the evidence, decides if a crime has been committed, questions the subject and then takes it to the DA's office.

In some places, a prosecutor is assigned when there is a serious crime, if only because he or she can provide a different insight.

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Do we think that LE is keeping mum on manner of death and they have one? Or are they keeping mum because they were not able to determine one?

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

In some places, a prosecutor is assigned when there is a serious crime, if only because he or she can provide a different insight.

Thank you. I worked at my county's courthouse for four years and I remember how competitive our DA's were when a good case came in. They acted like children vying for the big ones.

 

[Nvgirl]

I don't think LE wants the public to know where the girls were last seen. If they confirm that the girls were last seen on Brovan and the killer kidnapped them at the lake, the killer would then know he got away with it. Therefore, I really do believe last confirmed sighting is being withheld.

Excellent point!!!

 

[otto]

Thanks, georger! I'm going back through all of the times and places now that LE threw out there. No wonder why I was always confused with the timeline and such. Even watching all of the interviews with the family, there are inconsistencies with where everyone was and what time. It's all very confusing.

These are the times I'm aware of ... off the top of my head:

11:30 - girls left for bike ride, they were going towards old Post Office parking lot when she last saw them
12:11 - viideo: Cornbelt Auction; video is 8 minutes slow
12:19 - real video time (Brovan Blvd)
12:23 - "information" that girls were on Brovan Blvd
12:27 - cyclist swerves around bikes near one of the two gates; SE tip Meyers Lake
12:28 - cyclist time is verified through phone call from lake parking lot (Elmer/Gilbert)
12:30 - 1:00 - "information" from police of girls 12:30-1:00 at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus
12:35 - cyclist rides from Elmer/Gilbert to Evansdale Nature Trail (passes Arbutus)
2:00 - confirmation that bikes were at drainage pipe gate
3:40 - first time released in relation to discovery of bikes (searchers)
3:58 - official time that bikes were located

Additional Times

12:00-3:00 - Lawn watering man at Lake/Gilbert saw two girls on bikes, he sees them every night
no time given - smoking grocery clerks claim that girls wanted directions to lake
2:00 perhaps - "runner" sighting of bikes confirmed at gate

 

[otto]

Thank you. I worked at my county's courthouse for four years and I remember how competitive our DA's were when a good case came in. They acted like children vying for the big ones.

Here, I think prosecutors are relieved when they can assign the case to someone else. The really "good" or horrible cases aren't fought over because, as prosecutors, their lives are consumed with delving into the minds of evil people. It consumes them in many ways. Senior prosecutors take turns answering calls on the weekend ... in case police need to touch base because there's a serious crime. The case is then assigned to someone on the team.

Maybe it looks like children vying for the big ones, but I think that it's possible that after the first "good" case, they are relieved when it's passed to someone else ... at least, around here.

 

[otto]

Am I imagining things, or did I really read a post or posts on here months and months ago that the Lake was a quarry long, long ago? And dug out for fill when the big highway built, and the present Lake created?

I remember that. It might have been Ollipop that posted that. He also provided the links to the historic photos of Evansdale. He seems to know a lot about geology and GIS ... thankfully.

 

[superbee]

BBM Same question I asked in the first threads (I never did get an answer either.)

Exactly. Not like distance around the lake was that great. And when one is worried the adreniline flows, giving a person more endurance. If the lake came to mind to at least one family member why didn't at least one person go around the lake?

I keep wondering if Lyric and the other girl being late a few days before, and Tammy thinking of the lake when Lyric and Elizabeth are late, are connected.

How long were the family members at the lake before someone went to the police station?

Does anyone have thoughts on the skateboard park? Is that one popular, are there any cameras in the vicinity of the skateboard park in case of monkey business?

 

[superbee]

I remember that. It might have been Ollipop that posted that. He also provided the links to the historic photos of Evansdale. He seems to know a lot about geology and GIS ... thankfully.

Thanks, Otto, folks we know had a quarry so it kind of stuck in my mind. I remember those great photos. We were discussing Maiden Lane, and the area around there certainly looked different before the big highway was built. Was the former overgrown quarry excavated for fill to build up the highway, and the excavation left became the lake?

Maiden Lane and the park where the girls were found do have one thing in common. At one time people were there. Maiden Lane had homes at one time and the 7 Bridges Park was a popular place for family activities until a bridge washed out. Maybe the guilty one is familiar with and has a connection to both places, especially when he was younger? An unhappy connection?

 

[otto]

 

[otto]

Exactly. Not like distance around the lake was that great. And when one is worried the adreniline flows, giving a person more endurance. If the lake came to mind to at least one family member why didn't at least one person go around the lake?

I keep wondering if Lyric and the other girl being late a few days before, and Tammy thinking of the lake when Lyric and Elizabeth are late, are connected.

How long were the family members at the lake before someone went to the police station?

Does anyone have thoughts on the skateboard park? Is that one popular, are there any cameras in the vicinity of the skateboard park in case of monkey business?

It's not possible to go around the lake in a loop. Sending a child alone to search the SE tip of the lake meant driving around to the Maiden Lane area to pick him up. With one child already missing, who in their right mind would do that?

The other girl that was late with Lyric was her 11 year old cousin. They were late and apparently when a parent looked for them at the park where they were allowed to be, the parent could not find them ... so police were called, but just at that moment, Lyric and Tammy's 11 year old daughter walked through the front door. Tammy was probably thinking of "cool" places (like a favorite aunt) that her daughter and Lyric would visit, like the park, the lake ... and it turmed out Lyric and Elizabeth did possibly ride their bikes to the lake. The fact that Lyric went to a park with her older cousin a week earlier and she didn't follow the rules implies that she may have done the same thing with Elizabeth ... perhaps they rode their bikes to the lake.

Perhaps they were last seen at12:11 and the camera was 8 minutes slow in relation to the cyclist's cell phone. So, 12:19 on video heading west behind the Cornbelt Auction. If the cyclist's sighting is accurate, then (children their age cycle at an ave. speed of 9 MPH) it was 8 minutes later at 12:27 that he swerved around their bikes ... so they had already arrived and vanished.

"How long were the family members at the lake before someone went to the police station?"

An hour? I admit to being guilty of letting three hours pass when my 13 year old son was supposed to be with a friend in a safe place. All turned out well.

Skateboard park seems too public for an abduction.

 

[otto]

Thanks, Otto, folks we know had a quarry so it kind of stuck in my mind. I remember those great photos. We were discussing Maiden Lane, and the area around there certainly looked different before the big highway was built. Was the former overgrown quarry excavated for fill to build up the highway, and the excavation left became the lake?

Maiden Lane and the park where the girls were found do have one thing in common. At one time people were there. Maiden Lane had homes at one time and the 7 Bridges Park was a popular place for family activities until a bridge washed out. Maybe the guilty one is familiar with and has a connection to both places, especially when he was younger? An unhappy connection?

The lake was there from at least 1930, when Maiden Lane was a road. In 1970, it looks the same as in 1930. In the map I have from the 80s, it looks like the lake has been expanded at about the same time that the highway was built. It has been suggested that the Maiden Lane area was a bit of a high school party spot (Wylma knew about it) until the highway was built.

With the highway came the Evansdale Nature 'Bike' Trail around (not a loop around the lake) Meyers Lake (that pretty much does a dead stop at Lafayette), over to McCoy and down to the dike. With the bike trail came the double fences. One fence was to protect cyclists from the highway, the other is to delineate property lines and ensure that no one fall into the leech infested manmade lake. The fence also cordoned off the drainage pipe and the sewer pump station.

2 cents ...

 

[otto]

Someone was asking about the paddleboats at the lake

The Lake ... in 1970 it looked the same as 1930, but by the 1980s, the lake was more manmade than natural, reshaped, it ran along a highway and had a trail connected to the 100 year old train station (anno: 2012) in Gilbertsville (Gilbert seems to be a popular name) on the original leg of the trail. The trail is a dead end at Lafayette.

 

[CHERIE.T]

If one of my kids went missing (they are much younger) but lets just pretend for a minute that I let my kids play outside by themselves for 15 minutes without checking on them. If I went outside and couldn't find them, I'd check every where on our property. But first, I would check the garage, guest house, and dirt mound because THAT is where my kids play.

If I couldn't find them, I'd have the police start searching here, then work their way out. I'd suggest west down our road and not east up the road. I can say with certainty that if my kids went down the driveway they would NEVER head east. Misty and Heather said with certainty that their kids wouldn't go to the lake. I'm inclined to believe them.

They must have told police something that made them search the lake. Was it Tammy's running guy who saw them riding their bikes? Is that what prompted the lake search?

How many people were at the lake when Tammy & crew arrived?

Here is a quote from her interview:

We stop at Meyers Lake. I said, "Mom, drive me to Meyer Lake." I had Elizabeth`s older brother who`s 12, Kelly (ph), with us. And I just jumped out and started asking random strangers, "Have you seen two little girls?" Gave them the description, the colors of the bikes, and possibly what they were wearing.

And one man stepped forward and said, "Yes, I seen them going east on the bike trail at about 2:30." Now, whether he`s telling the truth or not, they do have this man`s name. You know, I don`t know. Whether he`s a person of interest, I don`t know.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/ijvm.01.html

So did she approach a group of people and ask? One man stepped forward? How many people were there? I guess he wasn't running, if he stepped out to say he had seen them. I'll stop calling him running man.

Excellent points !!