IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[Whisperer]

The gates in the fences were latched but not locked. Anyone over the age of maybe 5 years old could look at those gates and figure out how to open them. Thinking about it, a tall 3 year old could have done it.

The bike path looks small but it is actually 10 feet wide. Not really narrow at all.

SierraShelby has said in one of the recent threads that he didn't really think anything of seeing the bicycles in the way beyond assuming two kids had left them to there to play. Since he stopped to use the restroom within 5 minutes, I think it's fair to infer that he may have been feeling some urgency and not have felt like stopping at that moment in time.

If those bicycles belonged to the girls, then someone did indeed move them between when SierraShelby saw them and when Chief Deputy Rick Abben saw them at 3:58 pm.

No appeal has been made by LE to find the person who straightened up the bicycles, leading me to believe that they already know who did it. There has been mention of a runner seeing the bicycles at 2:00 pm and that may have been the person who straightened them up.

SierraShelby? I thought it was TG. I thought TG swerved around them went to the restroom and made a call. Didn't he have to pass the bikes again upon leaving?

I don't know who Sierra is. I thought only TG passed the bikes and the fireman who found the bikes standing upright were the only people. Regardless, LE has to know who straightened the bikes up and would have prints on the person who touched the bikes....if they are not involved, they didn't need gloves, that's for sure.

Come think of it, either the perp had premeditated and had gloves on or the prints that LE has matches a familiar person.

IMO, this doesn't seem to be a premeditated crime.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have to ask this. Was the cost of Dan's trial to be moved to another county worth it? Why couldn't the jurors be accommodated in Black Hawk County? Bring them to the trial, not make everyone else travel at the expense of the tax payers. jmo. A judge traveling, witnesses that need to testify, lawyers, expert witnesses possibly. Interesting why they didn't try that. Move a whole frigging county of people to testify daily, to and from, and who pays for it? Maybe it's not to that extent. Just a handful of people who will need to testify, got me.

Jurors in this country are not serving entirely voluntarily. You get a notice to serve and it is your civic duty to do so. Judges tend to be very, very sensitive to that fact and tend to want to do what they can to keep that burden to a minimum.

Jurors hate, hate, hate commuting almost as much as they hate being sequestered. So judges try to accommodate that as much as possible.

 

[GrainneDhu]

SierraShelby? I thought it was TG. I thought TG swerved around them went to the restroom and made a call. Didn't he have to pass the bikes again upon leaving?

I don't know who Sierra is. I thought only TG passed the bikes and the fireman who found the bikes standing upright were the only people. Regardless, LE has to know who straightened the bikes up and would have prints on the person who touched the bikes....if they are not involved, they didn't need gloves, that's for sure.

Come think of it, either the perp had premeditated and had gloves on or the prints that LE has matches a familiar person.

IMO, this doesn't seem to be a premeditated crime.

SierraShelby is the witness you refer to and has been verified for the case.

He didn't have to pass the bicycles twice because the bicycle trail does not make a complete loop around Meyers Lake; it goes about 4/5ths of the way around the lake (just my guesstimate) and then goes north, away from the lake.

The perp may not have ever touched the bicycles. I know from my own experience that it is very easy to pull someone off a bicycle by grabbing their arm, shirt or hair and giving a sharp pull sideways. Once the perp had control of one girl, I think it's likely he used her to coerce the other girl. If I'm correct, then he never had to touch either bicycle.

I agree with you that this does not seem premeditated. I think the perp had probably done a lot of fantasising and running various scenarios through his head but I don't think he set out to catch Lyric and Elizabeth that day.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yet I feel its the most premeditated and planned crime that I have seen for a long time.

Same information, completely different opinions.

 

[cindersoot]

SierraShelby? I thought it was TG. I thought TG swerved around them went to the restroom and made a call. Didn't he have to pass the bikes again upon leaving?

I don't know who Sierra is. I thought only TG passed the bikes and the fireman who found the bikes standing upright were the only people. Regardless, LE has to know who straightened the bikes up and would have prints on the person who touched the bikes....if they are not involved, they didn't need gloves, that's for sure.

Come think of it, either the perp had premeditated and had gloves on or the prints that LE has matches a familiar person.

IMO, this doesn't seem to be a premeditated crime.

Oh my, Whisperer you have brought up a very important point that I over looked completely. If TG rode past the bikes laying on their sides across the path and headed towards the restroom at the front of the lake, then he either backtracked past the bikes again or left via the street past Carpenters to get back on the trail. Either way, he was in the area of the abducted girls for quit a while. Did he back track past the bikes again?

 

[cindersoot]

If there were no prints on the girls bikes, it could mean the girls got off their bikes without being forced. I was thinking that if the bikes were seen laying on their sides across the trail, the girls stopped and laid the bikes down went to check something out knowing that they would get back on the bikes soon. If they knew they would be longer they would of not left the bikes laying across the trail. You have to think like a kid. The way the purse was just set down also tells me they didn't think they would be gone very long. I think they followed the perp thru the gate to the woods. A simple, " My horse is over here, in the woods, come see".

 

[cindersoot]

I wonder if the little girls bodies were placed 50 feet apart because there were 2 perps?
Or could it have been to confuse scent dogs? I'm just thinking out loud.

I think that the girls were killed and taken to 7 bridges at different times.

 

[cindersoot]

Were the girls bikes placed at Meyer's by a perp who had keys to the maintenance gate or was the gate opened? Either way, the perp had to know about the gate if he left the bikes there.

They were not near the restroom. If they were really on the bikes, something spooked them and they started running. If not, they were coercered or knew the perp and went willingly.

I am guessing the bikes were staged because of the maintenance gate. That it too much of a coincidence to not be considered as a plant.

Did TG find it odd that bikes were just thrown down like that? Did he try to find who owned the bikes that were strewn in the middle of a very small path? I know I would. I also would have moved them and stood them upright.

If I came across two bikes laying across the trail, I wouldn't think anything of it. It's what kids do.

 

[cindersoot]

Bikes left by water. Bodies found by water. Seems like perp was either a pervert hanging out in parks looking for prey, a hunter, or somebody who knows good hiding places.

That video submitted to the public shown was of the girls bicycling in the opposite direction of Meyer's. It would appear they were picked up shortly after that video, close to home and driven to the Meyer's lake where bikes were dumped.

I have said this from the very beginning, that the girls are not riding away from the lake. I took the same route past the camera on my bike to the stop sign, then right to another stop sign, than right on a busy street with a bike lane to the nature bike trail that leads to the lake, the one that is in back of Fareway and goes past the skatepark. It took me less than 8 minutes.

 

[threecrazykids]

Can anyone please provide the link to Otto's map of SierraShelby's bike route?

I have searched the threads and can't find a link showing this route:

East on Gilbert to trail in Edale
North to Laff
To McCoy
Gilbert
Across dike to trail back to depot

That is what I show SS gave as the route.

I must not be following visually on the map I have, because this route wouldn't even take SS around the lake on the map I've been looking at. It would make him coming in from east on Gilbert - then north - then back around the loop- and back to the depot. Where am I missing the loop around the lake? Or the stop to the restrooms?

He would have had to travel east to west...then backtrack past the bikes again to get back to the dike...am I right? Or where am I missing something?

I think I'm confused...can someone show me on Otto's map the trail where the above statement about his route goes around the lake? I've explained before I can get lost in my own backyard so I'm sure there is a route...I would just like to see it on a map please.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Here's a Case Archive for Elizabeth and Lyric:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Collins%20-%20Lyric%20Cook-Morrissey%20%20-IA-/

 

[threecrazykids]

Oh my, Whisperer you have brought up a very important point that I over looked completely. If TG rode past the bikes laying on their sides across the path and headed towards the restroom at the front of the lake, then he either backtracked past the bikes again or left via the street past Carpenters to get back on the trail. Either way, he was in the area of the abducted girls for quit a while. Did he back track past the bikes again?

Is SS still a member? I looked under the member list to send a PM to maker sure I understood where he passed the bikes and I don't show him still a member.

Maybe I'm spelling it wrong. SierraShelby, correct?

 

[Tennlyn]

Can anyone please provide the link to Otto's map of SierraShelby's bike route?

I have searched the threads and can't find a link showing this route:

East on Gilbert to trail in Edale
North to Laff
To McCoy
Gilbert
Across dike to trail back to depot

That is what I show SS gave as the route.

I must not be following visually on the map I have, because this route wouldn't even take SS around the lake on the map I've been looking at. It would make him coming in from east on Gilbert - then north - then back around the loop- and back to the depot. Where am I missing the loop around the lake? Or the stop to the restrooms?

He would have had to travel east to west...then backtrack past the bikes again to get back to the dike...am I right? Or where am I missing something?

I think I'm confused...can someone show me on Otto's map the trail where the above statement about his route goes around the lake? I've explained before I can get lost in my own backyard so I'm sure there is a route...I would just like to see it on a map please.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

I think this is the post from Otto with the map of TG's route in green.

 

[Reverie]

If there were no prints on the girls bikes, it could mean the girls got off their bikes without being forced. I was thinking that if the bikes were seen laying on their sides across the trail, the girls stopped and laid the bikes down went to check something out knowing that they would get back on the bikes soon. If they knew they would be longer they would of not left the bikes laying across the trail. You have to think like a kid. The way the purse was just set down also tells me they didn't think they would be gone very long. I think they followed the perp thru the gate to the woods. A simple, " My horse is over here, in the woods, come see".

Or even a new litter of kittens or rabbits?

 

[threecrazykids]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

I think this is the post from Otto with the map of TG's route in green.

Ok, so the map I have bookmarked is this same map.

His directions don't include the loop around the lake per his comment.

He just stated Gilbert to Evansdale trail north to Lafayette. He skipped the entire loop (per the map) I believe. So that would make it east on Gilbert - then south on the Evansdale trail between Gilbert and Arbatus around the south (back) side of the lake - north to Elmer (assuming this because of the stop at the restroom) - East on Gilbert...THEN up to Lafayette and around.

Am I correct?:waitasec:

 

[threecrazykids]

Can you blame the poor guy... I wouldn't subject myself to this.

I guess I'm not following your comment. I assumed he joined the site on his own free will. What do you mean "subject himself to this". If he didn't want to join to help us understand his statements he more than likely wouldn't have.

I appreciate him joining and confirming our questions...it helps us know who was where, and when.

 

[Whisperer]

If I came across two bikes laying across the trail, I wouldn't think anything of it. It's what kids do.

I don't know about that. Two bikes laying on a 10 ft wide path would almost take up the entire path if they weren't on top of each other. If you are bicycling past them, you may move them and wonder who owns them and where are they?

That place look deserted to me. Why leave the bikes in a path if you were riding there? Why not park the bikes? The path is narrow, you could easily prop up the bikes by the fence. I wonder if the bikes were thrown there by the perp...as he was in a hurry. He may have driven up to the gate and dumped the bikes.

 

[tlcya]

SierraShelby was kind enough to join and answer some of our questions, addressing our confusion as to his route, actions and what he saw that day. We very much appreciated him clearing those questions up.

That said, I never really expected him to stick around for long. He doesn't strike me as a web sleuth or a person who follows crime or cases. He just so happened to be a witness in this one and now that he's answered our questions, I don't really expect to see him much here. And that is just fine, I appreciate that he bothered to get verified and address our confusion.

 

[Whisperer]

Okay, so now I will look at the map to understand what SS (TG) is saying. So was it the fireman who picked up the bikes from the ground? Did he take a pic before he moved them?

 

[Tennlyn]

Ok, so the map I have bookmarked is this same map.

His directions don't include the loop around the lake per his comment.

He just stated Gilbert to Evansdale trail north to Lafayette. He skipped the entire loop (per the map) I believe. So that would make it east on Gilbert - then south on the Evansdale trail between Gilbert and Arbatus around the south (back) side of the lake - north to Elmer (assuming this because of the stop at the restroom) - East on Gilbert...THEN up to Lafayette and around.

Am I correct?:waitasec:

There appears to have been a post or 2 from SierraShelby that disappeared before he got verified. I did see Otto respond to one of those posts that gives me the impression what got zapped was that he rode around the lake to the restrooms and then left from the parking lot onto Gilbert. Then we have the rest of the route described in a later post.

I'll go back and find that post from Otto and add it in a sec.

ETA: Well, here's the post from SierraShelby that quotes the post I was thinking of from Otto. I can't find Otto's original post now.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25