IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[otto]

It makes me so sad to see the thread slow down. I really wish that we had more to chew on. Something...anything new to revive our thoughts and ideas as to what happened to these girls.
<snipped for space>
Patience and faith are two things I'm lacking...I wish I had more of both. :blushing:

I think the solving of cases depends on several factors, some of which are training and experience of investigators, circumstances, evidence, funding, so on. I recently followed a mysterious case where a young man vanished from a 6 lane intersection late at night (it was not a hit and run). 10 months later, investigators found his body more than 50 miles away. A month later, there were arrests. The investigation cost over one million dollars. The trial is pending. Clearly this police force had everything required to solve the case, but this isn't always what happens. I'm aware of another case where a mother and daughter were murdered, suspects were identified and there are no arrests more than a decade later. There simply isn't enough evidence for an arrest.

If investigators had found Lyric and Elizabeth, we would know that they were following good evidence. Since investigators had no idea where to look for the children, that suggests to me that they have no evidence trail. Even after the discovery of the bodies, it seems that police are no closer to solving this crime than they were when the bikes were discovered.

 

[roseofsharon]

It would be interesting to hear the opinion of a criminal profiler now, since the hunters found L and E and opinion on why the bodies were found 50 ft. apart. Have my own theories on this, but would like to hear what the experts have to say.

imo

 

[Squeeze]

Squeeze..this post is not intended to offend you. However, I find it strange/odd that heather will add everyone who sends her a friend request. She does seems like a very kind and inspirational person. I guess while reading your post my "mommy" protective mode kicked in & I couldn't help thinking why would you allow public access to your family after a something like this. They have three other children to protect. No one has been charged with abducting & murdering Elizabeth. How can they be certain that the person responsible is not still "watching" their family. I am glad to hear that she is still active in the community. I'm also not passing judgement as I never want to walk in her shoes. I am just very suprised by your post.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but I guess I'm not really surprised. Cinder tried to friend her and it wouldn't let her, so maybe it is limited to friends of friends. I could see her not accepting a friend request from someone with no connection. But she is a very giving and forgiving person, so she may not think anything of accepting friend requests.

She had a very nice post today about her upcoming anniversary. She and Drew appear to have a very strong marriage.

There was also a full page ad in the Celebrations section of the Courier today. I'm trying to find a link, but I'm unable to. Its a tabloid style insert and is usually viewable online.

Fyi, to avoid the subscription fee after viewing 10 articles, delete the wcf cookies.... sssshhhhh....

 

[Just Pat 22]

I hope you're not still searching for a MSM link abt it being hunters that called the family, because I'm 99% sure you won't find one.

I did a search of the current thread and found where I had seen the statement that one time: it's on Page l

Who called the family was not under discussion at the time. And though this comment "they immediately called the family" confused me at first, I then realized that IMO the "they" referred to LE.

Your a life saver I was looking and knew I read it somewhere recenty. Thanks for taking the trouble .:seeya:

 

[alliemay]

Solved cases:
http://iowacoldcases.org/

Unsolved:
http://lawenforcementtoday.com/2012/11/29/iowa-cold-case-solved/

 

[hollyblue]

Don't cha wish we could all go volunteer to help LE in some way? Go thru phone records or just something!!!

 

[threecrazykids]

I think the solving of cases depends on several factors, some of which are training and experience of investigators, circumstances, evidence, funding, so on. I recently followed a mysterious case where a young man vanished from a 6 lane intersection late at night (it was not a hit and run). 10 months later, investigators found his body more than 50 miles away. A month later, there were arrests. The investigation cost over one million dollars. The trial is pending. Clearly this police force had everything required to solve the case, but this isn't always what happens. I'm aware of another case where a mother and daughter were murdered, suspects were identified and there are no arrests more than a decade later. There simply isn't enough evidence for an arrest.

If investigators had found Lyric and Elizabeth, we would know that they were following good evidence. Since investigators had no idea where to look for the children, that suggests to me that they have no evidence trail. Even after the discovery of the bodies, it seems that police are no closer to solving this crime than they were when the bikes were discovered.

I am in 100% agreement with you on the bolded above. When I heard that hunters had found the bodies my heart just sunk. It confirmed what I had been thinking all along...that LE had no idea where these girls were. And that regardless of all the comments about "we continue to follow leads" and "we're waiting for lots of info to come back" I don't think they are any closer today than they were the day they went missing. The only good thing that came of this, is that by sheer miracle those girls bodies were found...and thankfully their families can have some sort of closure. Certainly not what they'd hoped for...but in comparison to the families who never have their loved ones returned (deceased or not) I just think that would be a living hell.

Thank you Otto for summing it up so well...excellent post.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I wonder if the little girls bodies were placed 50 feet apart because there were 2 perps?
Or could it have been to confuse scent dogs? I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I think the solving of cases depends on several factors, some of which are training and experience of investigators, circumstances, evidence, funding, so on. I recently followed a mysterious case where a young man vanished from a 6 lane intersection late at night (it was not a hit and run). 10 months later, investigators found his body more than 50 miles away. A month later, there were arrests. The investigation cost over one million dollars. The trial is pending. Clearly this police force had everything required to solve the case, but this isn't always what happens. I'm aware of another case where a mother and daughter were murdered, suspects were identified and there are no arrests more than a decade later. There simply isn't enough evidence for an arrest.

If investigators had found Lyric and Elizabeth, we would know that they were following good evidence. Since investigators had no idea where to look for the children, that suggests to me that they have no evidence trail. Even after the discovery of the bodies, it seems that police are no closer to solving this crime than they were when the bikes were discovered.

I agree with you Otto. I don't think LE has an evidence trail.
I don't feel secure in LE even having a suspect. Imoo

 

[hollyblue]

I really don't see how if LE had any kind of evidence for leads, that it would particularly lead to the bodies or specifically Seven Bridges Park. What would that be beside a sighting by someone? The only way to find the girls was to find the perps....which they are apparently having a hard time doing. The girls could have been absolutely anywhere either alive or as found. Now they must work backwards and hopefully will have found more evidence leading to the perp(s). Whoever placed them there had to know about that park. The odds of someone abducting the girls and then haphazardly driving by it for a convenient dump would almost be nil. imo

 

[GrainneDhu]

In the very beginning of the investigation, LE was looking thru trash for the girls, yet they said they believed they were still alive?

That's due diligence.

Same thing with Meyers Lake; it was possible and not very expensive to drain the lake, so even though LE was fully convinced by Sunday evening that the girls were not in the lake, they drained it anyway.

Two young girls with no previous history of running away who have disappeared calls for an investigation that moves forward on several parallel tracks from the very beginning.

 

[Whisperer]

Were the girls bikes placed at Meyer's by a perp who had keys to the maintenance gate or was the gate opened? Either way, the perp had to know about the gate if he left the bikes there.

They were not near the restroom. If they were really on the bikes, something spooked them and they started running. If not, they were coercered or knew the perp and went willingly.

I am guessing the bikes were staged because of the maintenance gate. That it too much of a coincidence to not be considered as a plant.

Did TG find it odd that bikes were just thrown down like that? Did he try to find who owned the bikes that were strewn in the middle of a very small path? I know I would. I also would have moved them and stood them upright.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Law is very frustrating. Waiting until every test is completed is even more so. If they were building a case on circumstantial evidence, that lake had to be drained. I remember they had civiians, maybe paid for to pump Meyers. They didn't waste their time on standing around all those days but had a couple assigned officers overseeing it until the day they put divers in and used sonar. iirc To not do so would be a hay day in court. Defense would say without a body and the fact they didn't drain the lake they neglected to find the most obvious place where they could be since their bikes were found there & their client is innocent or make up some unimaginable excuse as an example Casey Anthony defense. Creative rewriting of actual events...

I've been patient for a while on some cases that should be considered cold by now but still hang in there hoping for justice one day. Here's hoping the DNA tests, tox tests etc..are positive for them to make an arrest.

 

[Whisperer]

Bikes left by water. Bodies found by water. Seems like perp was either a pervert hanging out in parks looking for prey, a hunter, or somebody who knows good hiding places.

That video submitted to the public shown was of the girls bicycling in the opposite direction of Meyer's. It would appear they were picked up shortly after that video, close to home and driven to the Meyer's lake where bikes were dumped.

 

[NWLady]

Bikes left by water. Bodies found by water. Seems like perp was either a pervert hanging out in parks looking for prey, a hunter, or somebody who knows good hiding places.

That video submitted to the public shown was of the girls bicycling in the opposite direction of Meyer's. It would appear they were picked up shortly after that video, close to home and driven to the Meyer's lake where bikes were dumped.

This post is not directed at you Whisperer but it just made me think of something that I've been wanting to say. I have watched that surveillance video over and over and over (as I'm sure many of you have) and I still am not convinced that is the girls. From what I see, I have myself almost convinced that it was 2 people much bigger than Elizabeth and Lyric and one looks to be wearing all black and the second one appears to not even have a shirt on. I am so confused by that video...granted maybe the LE/FBI were able to "fine tune it" so to speak or whatever to convince themselves it was the 2 girls but I would have to see their fine tune episode of it before I am convinced it's even them. I think LE has placed more emphasis on that video just simply because it's the only thing they can use to try to convince us that it WAS the girls and that the girls were indeed still alive that day at that time...All of this is just my opinion though....

 

[GrainneDhu]

Bikes left by water. Bodies found by water. Seems like perp was either a pervert hanging out in parks looking for prey, a hunter, or somebody who knows good hiding places.

That video submitted to the public shown was of the girls bicycling in the opposite direction of Meyer's. It would appear they were picked up shortly after that video, close to home and driven to the Meyer's lake where bikes were dumped.

The other thing the two locations have in common is that in the past, both have been known to be teen partying spots. I think that opens up the potential suspect pool by somewhere in the thousands (everyone who ever partied in both locations and everyone who knew someone who partied in both locations).

The direction the girls were cycling was perpendicular to Meyers Lake. If you imagine Meyers Lake as being at the apex of an isosceles triangle, the girls were caught riding along the base opposite the apex. While Abben called that the opposite direction to the lake, it's hard for me to see it that way since the girls could have turned south and gotten down to the lake that way.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Were the girls bikes placed at Meyer's by a perp who had keys to the maintenance gate or was the gate opened? Either way, the perp had to know about the gate if he left the bikes there.

They were not near the restroom. If they were really on the bikes, something spooked them and they started running. If not, they were coercered or knew the perp and went willingly.

I am guessing the bikes were staged because of the maintenance gate. That it too much of a coincidence to not be considered as a plant.

Did TG find it odd that bikes were just thrown down like that? Did he try to find who owned the bikes that were strewn in the middle of a very small path? I know I would. I also would have moved them and stood them upright.

The gates in the fences were latched but not locked. Anyone over the age of maybe 5 years old could look at those gates and figure out how to open them. Thinking about it, a tall 3 year old could have done it.

The bike path looks small but it is actually 10 feet wide. Not really narrow at all.

SierraShelby has said in one of the recent threads that he didn't really think anything of seeing the bicycles in the way beyond assuming two kids had left them to there to play. Since he stopped to use the restroom within 5 minutes, I think it's fair to infer that he may have been feeling some urgency and not have felt like stopping at that moment in time.

If those bicycles belonged to the girls, then someone did indeed move them between when SierraShelby saw them and when Chief Deputy Rick Abben saw them at 3:58 pm.

No appeal has been made by LE to find the person who straightened up the bicycles, leading me to believe that they already know who did it. There has been mention of a runner seeing the bicycles at 2:00 pm and that may have been the person who straightened them up.

 

[Dr. Know?]

For some reason I thought I heard/read that Abben arrived at Meyers Lake at around 5pm. "When I arrived" what time was that? Around 5pm" Anyone else? He did say that he saw the bikes against the fence & one had the kickstand down and one didn't? have a kickstand? right?

 

[Tucarra]

That's due diligence.

Same thing with Meyers Lake; it was possible and not very expensive to drain the lake, so even though LE was fully convinced by Sunday evening that the girls were not in the lake, they drained it anyway.

Two young girls with no previous history of running away who have disappeared calls for an investigation that moves forward on several parallel tracks from the very beginning.

Exactly...

Any group trying 'solve' something 'unexpected'..has to, has to, follow all tracks, and cover all bases...given all the resources they have, and then some...

 

[Dr. Know?]

I have to ask this. Was the cost of Dan's trial to be moved to another county worth it? Why couldn't the jurors be accommodated in Black Hawk County? Bring them to the trial, not make everyone else travel at the expense of the tax payers. jmo. A judge traveling, witnesses that need to testify, lawyers, expert witnesses possibly. Interesting why they didn't try that. Move a whole frigging county of people to testify daily, to and from, and who pays for it? Maybe it's not to that extent. Just a handful of people who will need to testify, got me.