IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[hollyblue]

Don't laugh at me now....I was laying awake about 2 a.m. the other morning trying to count sheep to go to sleep and I couldn't stop thinking about the girls. Kept thinking about our conversation that day here at WebSleuths and was trying to think of the name of Elizabeth's father's business. I kept thinking it was Custom Tree trimming or something like that or Custom lawncare. Anyway, today I just decided to google "custom" with the town and state because it would not get out of my head. No laughing please. I have no idea if this is a trend with trunks or not. But here it is:

I don't know what part of a part that is??!!! Is it a trunk lid? A spoiler? The front of a semi grill? I've seen some interesting grills on those big trucks before.....and, of course the mud flaps. LOL I was imagining a full artistist blow out with caskets, axes, the garb, etc.

 

[otto]

In all honesty, I can't tell if you're for or against my opinion. Perhaps you could copy/paste the applicable section regarding your point of view?

It could just be a lack of search skills on my part, however, this is the only section I personally could find that addressed current subject:

I, the undersigned, understand that duties that I may engage in as an Emergency Service Provider
of the Evansdale Fire Department includes the following;
1) Involvement in emergency incident operations, which may include fire, emergency
medical, natural disaster, hazardous material, storm watch, search and rescue related, or
any special circumstances which may arise which presents a hazard to the safety and well
being of citizens in the Evansdale Fire Rescue or Communities that have requested the​

Evansdale Fire Department for Assistance.

Not for or against ... no position. The question is whether the volunteer firefighter that found the bikes was trained in search and rescue skills, evidence preservation and other job requirements ... even though he is a volunteer. The answer is yes.

It looks like it's the first paragraph after the one you quoted.

 

[chelsea6]

When LE went in and closed the lake for a night (I think a few weeks, maybe 10 days?) after the girls went missng, I suggested they had planted deer suveillance or hunter's cams around the lake and we're going in to collect them. It was just a blurp of a thought tho to why they had wardened it off. We can only wish LE has this type of evidence. Talk about deer in the headlights expressions! :what: I'd still like to know why that was done.....and the only thing I could think of was LE thought someone(s) might be coming back to the lake at night to dispose of evidence after the lake had been drained and cleared.

I didn't think of that, good call!! :seeya: I was only thinking of 7 bridges, the deer surveillance cameras there, capturing something the police don't want us to know about yet. They don't want us to know the hunters names, or information about what they saw or know, especially about the cameras. In regards to possible cameras at the lake... same thing. I don't see anywhere when the LE said we have nothing collected from any deer surveillance cameras. :waitasec:

 

[hollyblue]

I didn't think of that, good call!! :seeya: I was only thinking of 7 bridges, the deer surveillance cameras there, capturing something the police don't want us to know about yet. They don't want us to know the hunters names, or information about what they saw or know, especially about the cameras. In regards to possible cameras at the lake... same thing. I don't see anywhere when the LE said we have nothing collected from any deer surveillance cameras. :waitasec:

Wouldn't it be amazing if the perps were caught like that? I can vaguely remember a case either on here on a TV program where they did utilize those cams, but I can't remember if the perp was caught or not....or the type of crime. It is probably because of their testimony when a trial takes place, things that only the perp(s) would know .....and not wanting leakage of such or rumors to amerge to the family before it is necessary.

There is a case in IL where the murders took place in 9/09 and the case was just now moved to another county. Four years and there are two brothers each to have their own separate trials. We learned the COD after the first one was arrested and charged, but we have yet to hear what prosecution believes the motive was.

 

[JaimeInLA]

This is my humble opinion only... don't you wish you had simply referred to the volunteer firefighters as not being "professionals" rather than not being "real?"

And, no, I'm not expecting an answer to this nor, for that matter, am I expecting a thumbs up.

In case it's not clear, I think Jamie made a good point and am disappointed that the firefighter remark is the only thing that appears to have "struck a cord."

O/T, P.S., & jumping off your post: I don't have a link for this nor in my humble opinion do I need one!

All I meant is that they weren't city employees. Geez, people!

My point is, and has since been verified by the job description Otto posted, they are NOT changed in search and rescue work related to an abduction. Rescuing people from a fire is VERY different from the detailed detective work necessary to preserve a crime scene and investigate a kidnapping. It says it right there in their job description - they are trained in fighting fires and EMT services -- not crime solving!!

For the record - my dad was a firefighter for 31 years in Cleveland. Had my kid been kidnapped, i'd be PISSED if he went trampling around a crime scene, looking for her. He is NOT TRAINED in that. And he was a full time, well trained, city employee.

Searching for missing children is a job for the POLICE and I wouldn't be surprised at all if volunteer fire fighters made some mistakes.

 

[Squeeze]

I don't know what part of a part that is??!!! Is it a trunk lid? A spoiler? The front of a semi grill? I've seen some interesting grills on those big trucks before.....and, of course the mud flaps. LOL I was imagining a full artistist blow out with caskets, axes, the garb, etc.

To me, it looks like a trunk lid, but it would really helpful if the shot were wider. I found the same website. Fyi, its on the other side of Lafayette from the Collins residence.

 

[otto]

Wouldn't it be amazing if the perps were caught like that? I can vaguely remember a case either on here on a TV program where they did utilize those cams, but I can't remember if the perp was caught or not....or the type of crime. It is probably because of their testimony when a trial takes place, things that only the perp(s) would know .....and not wanting leakage of such or rumors to amerge to the family before it is necessary.

There is a case in IL where the murders took place in 9/09 and the case was just now moved to another county. Four years and there are two brothers each to have their own separate trials. We learned the COD after the first one was arrested and charged, but we have yet to hear what prosecution believes the motive was.

Who is the victim in that case?

 

[foxbluff]

Not for or against ... no position. The question is whether the volunteer firefighter that found the bikes was trained in search and rescue skills, evidence preservation and other job requirements ... even though he is a volunteer. The answer is yes.

It looks like it's the first paragraph after the one you quoted.

For what it's worth, I agree that Para l below is the only place I saw "search and rescue" mentioned in the E'dale Fire Dept. application.

Sadly, I personally fail to see where Para 2 - BBM - (which you kindly pointed out in your post) would address my opinion that a volunteer firefighter wouldn't have training in search & rescue as related to LE crime scene preservation.

Department Management & Planning —Application for Membership
Emergency Service Personnel Duty Form
I, the undersigned, understand that duties that I may engage in as an Emergency Service Provider
of the Evansdale Fire Department includes the following;
1) Involvement in emergency incident operations, which may include fire, emergency
medical, natural disaster, hazardous material, storm watch, search and rescue related, or
any special circumstances which may arise which presents a hazard to the safety and well
being of citizens in the Evansdale Fire Rescue or Communities that have requested the
Evansdale Fire Department for Assistance.
2) Participation in training and educational activities related to my duties as Evansdale
Emergency Service Personnel. Said training my require a service clause which will
require me to provide a specified number of months/years service to the Evansdale Fire
Department or be required to reimburse the City of Evansdale for all or part of the costs​

associated with my training.

 

[otto]

All I meant is that they weren't city employees. Geez, people!

My point is, and has since been verified by the job description Otto posted, they are NOT changed in search and rescue work related to an abduction. Rescuing people from a fire is VERY different from the detailed detective work necessary to preserve a crime scene and investigate a kidnapping. It says it right there in their job description - they are trained in fighting fires and EMT services -- not crime solving!!

For the record - my dad was a firefighter for 31 years in Cleveland. Had my kid been kidnapped, i'd be PISSED if he went trampling around a crime scene, looking for her. He is NOT TRAINED in that. And he was a full time, well trained, city employee.

Searching for missing children is a job for the POLICE and I wouldn't be surprised at all if volunteer fire fighters made some mistakes.

I mistakenly thought that you were wondering why I repeatedly referred to the volunteer firefighter that found the bikes as a trained volunteer. I posted that trained volunteers would not mistakenly tamper with evidence when two children were missing ... tampering meaning: moving the bicycles that they were last seen riding. The question was whether the volunteer firefighter was trained in his job (paid or unpaid). Firefighters are also trained in search and rescue. Search and rescue is not the same as "crime solving" and prosecutorial work.

Volunteer firefighters are trained for specific jobs in Evansdale and are required to donate a certain number of months of work. If they do not complete the required time, they can be required to repay the cost of training. Individuals are trained in different areas like fire, emergency medical, natural disaster, hazardous materials, storm watch ... search and rescue ... all different departments.

There are not enough police officers on any police force for them to not do their jobs (which is not missing person searches) and not rely on trained volunteer firefighters for assistance in search and rescue.

http://www.evansdalefire.com/images/Application_for_Membership.pdf

 

[foxbluff]

All I meant is that they weren't city employees. Geez, people!

My point is, and has since been verified by the job description Otto posted, they are NOT changed in search and rescue work related to an abduction. Rescuing people from a fire is VERY different from the detailed detective work necessary to preserve a crime scene and investigate a kidnapping. It says it right there in their job description - they are trained in fighting fires and EMT services -- not crime solving!!

For the record - my dad was a firefighter for 31 years in Cleveland. Had my kid been kidnapped, i'd be PISSED if he went trampling around a crime scene, looking for her. He is NOT TRAINED in that. And he was a full time, well trained, city employee.

Searching for missing children is a job for the POLICE and I wouldn't be surprised at all if volunteer fire fighters made some mistakes.

Hmm... actually, for what it's worth, I was supporting you... :blushing:

 

[GrainneDhu]

Volunteer firefighters are real firefighters. My son was a Volunteer Firefighter and he is state certified as most firefighters are.

Please give your son my sincerest thanks. All firefighters are heroes. Whether they are paid or volunteer, they all face the same dangers and give it their best.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That's what I think too... a quick stop and they left their bikes just outside the gate. That's keeping it as about as simple as we can.

I think there was some confusion as to when the girls were to return home, thought they had a longer time to ride their bikes and decided to go to the lake.

If we go with staging, it gets very complicated PDQ.

Came across something today that struck me as weird... someone had a "custom" job done to their car trunk... the inside of the trunk reads "grim reaper." Is that weird or what?

It's weird but it appeals to my sense of gallows humour.

There's someone around here that has "Slayer of Deer" painted in fancy letters and scrollwork on the hood of his car. I always laugh when I see it.

 

[Considering]

I believe all firefighters would be trained on how to deal with crime scenes. Arson is a crime and the sight of such a fire is a crime scene.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I asked before, but I must have missed the response. :waitasec: Was there any proof the bikes weren't placed there the night before, or earlier that morning? Maybe the girls never did go for bike rides that day. Just maybe the video isn't of the girls, it could have been someone else. I'm sure they weren't the only ones thought to be riding their bikes that day on that road. ( I don't trust what anyone said, except for the LE of course.) :cop:

That would require a conspiracy involving Grandma Wylma and Elizabeth's three siblings at the very least. While adults can hold out against LE interrogation, I just can't see a 6 year old being able to keep a secret while being interrogated.

Heck, Art Linkletter had a whole schtick built on asking young children a simple question: "What did your parents tell you not to say today?" And invariably the child would reel off whatever it was the parents told them not to say.

I'm certain that Elizabeth's siblings corroborated Grandma Wylma's account.

 

[otto]

It's weird but it appeals to my sense of gallows humour.

There's someone around here that has "Slayer of Deer" painted in fancy letters and scrollwork on the hood of his car. I always laugh when I see it.

Photoshopped for sales?

 

[GrainneDhu]

OMG, remember I told you about this man I know that was questioned by police early after the girl's bodies were discovered? Two days ago, he asked if anyone wanted a couple of free phones. I asked , "What's that?" And he said it's those government freebies, he doesn't need it because he's going to prison soon. One is his, and the other was somebody elses, whatever that means. :waitasec: Ewwww... it really COULD be anybody, and if he knows whoever did it, and it's one of those phones.. double EWWWW!!! Man, it's not easy being a local, everyone is suspect. :what: So, for sure nothing is traceable with those phones? :waitasec:

Nope, those throwaway phones are traceable in that they ping just like any cell phone and those pings can be used to locate that cell phone.

The problem is in linking a given throwaway cell phone to a particular person. It's just like anything else bought with cash; unless there is surveillance footage showing the person buying the phone or a receipt is found in that person's possession, it's difficult to link the person to the phone.

And... if I were you, I'd definitely call LE. That just sounds really sketchy.

 

[carbuff]

Don't laugh at me now....I was laying awake about 2 a.m. the other morning trying to count sheep to go to sleep and I couldn't stop thinking about the girls. Kept thinking about our conversation that day here at WebSleuths and was trying to think of the name of Elizabeth's father's business. I kept thinking it was Custom Tree trimming or something like that or Custom lawncare. Anyway, today I just decided to google "custom" with the town and state because it would not get out of my head. No laughing please. I have no idea if this is a trend with trunks or not. But here it is:

I may be mistaken on this, but I'm pretty sure that's a humongous trunk-sized subwoofer, the kind that rattles the windows of houses as it drives past.

A system like that would include cabling and shielding to deaden the background noise and interference. You want the music to play against a dead black background -- sonically speaking.

So I presume a Grim Reaper system is the ultimate in dead black background for your music. Or maybe it knocks 'em dead. Something like that.

 

[carbuff]

OMG, remember I told you about this man I know that was questioned by police early after the girl's bodies were discovered? Two days ago, he asked if anyone wanted a couple of free phones. I asked , "What's that?" And he said it's those government freebies, he doesn't need it because he's going to prison soon. One is his, and the other was somebody elses, whatever that means. :waitasec: Ewwww... it really COULD be anybody, and if he knows whoever did it, and it's one of those phones.. double EWWWW!!! Man, it's not easy being a local, everyone is suspect. :what: So, for sure nothing is traceable with those phones? :waitasec:

Did you report that to LE? Even if it's not about the girls, it sounds like he's been up to something seriously bad.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Photoshopped for sales?

I'm not sure what you mean. The owner of the car with "Slayer of Deer" on the hood must live fairly close to me since I see that car a couple times a month. It's very fancy and actually difficult to read with all the scrollwork, etc. Quite decorative.

Which just makes it funnier to me.

 

[Squeeze]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...79586258819775.56489.279285502183184&__user=0

Speaking of the trailer court near 7 Bridges...