IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bootsctr said:
Yes, yes and YES! I think I have a little crush on you.... and I mean that in the most admiring way :blushing:

While I was away snoozing, you guys have provided me with lots of information to ponder today. Thank you jenandemmie for the links and everyone else's and the food-for-thought posts! I am definitely going to try the exercise you explained with my dog Grainne! I can't wait. She is going to love it. She thinks I am the most boring person in the world, so this will definitely give her something to do.

I would especially like to thank threecrazykids for keeping this thread active and moving! Now where is she ? She has a lot to catch up on . . .

:coffeews:
Click to expand...

GOOD MORNING! :great: Up and at em'! :woot:
 
GrainneDhu said:
Here's the link for the organisation that runs nosework trials and holds courses for dog owners to learn how to do it:

http://www.funnosework.com/

It is somewhat like the work drug or explosives detection dogs do, in that there are four different scents (in this case, harmless essential oils rather than anything dangerous!) and the dogs are taught to look for those scents in different environments.

It is all done via positive reinforcement, there's no force involved. It is amazing to see what dogs who have "only" been household pets can really do, given the right circumstances.
Click to expand...

I remember when I first joined the board you had told me about the whole nosework tracking and I tried it with my yellow lab. I was like HOLY CRAP when I watched him go!

We had kept the dog inside (not able to see out) and sent my husband out into the acreage to hide way down in a corner off the trail thinking he'd never find him.

Boy were we wrong! I let him out the sliding glass doors and he went nose to the ground and hauled tail straight to him like he had a huge neon sign over his head showing where he was. And to think I thought he was just a silly old couch dog. :floorlaugh:

Thanks again Grainne for all your input!
 
foxbluff said:
This may very well be the first day I have ever agreed w/everything a poster has said.

This is very simply my tribute to ThreeCrazyKids who, IMO, has kept this thread moving (and interesting) all day in spite of us not having any "news" to debate.

And, this is my tribute for her having "stuck to her guns" against, seemingly to me, all odds:

GO ThreeCrazyKids !! :woohoo:
Click to expand...

lol.. You and ThreeCrazyKids are so both awesome! :woot: Heck, I'd like to give EVERYONE that posts on here these days a big pat on the back for not giving up hope on finding the killer(s) of our girls. :thewave:
 
threecrazykids said:
Thank you so much for this!:great: This is exactly what I was hoping to have answered. In my example...Uncle Fred said he'd never been to the lake or hadn't been in years and had no reason for his scent to be there.

The dog's can hit on a scent and prove otherwise. It may not be enough to convict, but it's enough to know that Uncle Fred is being less than truthful in his whereabouts for the day. Sure, LE is going to need more evidence to prove he was there, but they at least were able to use the dogs to prove his scent was at the lake.
Click to expand...

Almost.

The police can use scent dog evidence to show that they had good reason to believe that Uncle Fred was at the lake. The prosecutor cannot use the scent dog's alert as proof that Uncle Fred was at the lake.
 
threecrazykids said:
You are correct...I would post the family members who said from the beginning that they believed girls were abducted and NOT in the lake, but I will leave that research up to each sleuther.There are plenty of clips and transcripts out there showing who thought the girls were abducted.

However, you are correct...Grandma Vicki didn't appear to think the girls had been abducted in the video I posted.
Click to expand...

All of which I find completely normal. When something like this happens in a family, they usually don't react as a unified front from the beginning. Over time, as they come out of shock, start to process what they know and get more information about what happened, they often do pull together.

If the entire family had been absolutely united from the very beginning, I would find that very odd. Heck, most large families can't agree on where to go out to eat on the first vote, let alone guess what happened to their disappeared children.
 
GrainneDhu said:
All of which I find completely normal. When something like this happens in a family, they usually don't react as a unified front from the beginning. Over time, as they come out of shock, start to process what they know and get more information about what happened, they often do pull together.

If the entire family had been absolutely united from the very beginning, I would find that very odd. Heck, most large families can't agree on where to go out to eat on the first vote, let alone guess what happened to their disappeared children.
Click to expand...

Very true! :floorlaugh:

Great point though...if everyone thought the same thing happened, that would probably be abnormal. I agree though that between denial, shock, acceptance, etc. everyone reacts differently and the times of reality vary for each individual.
 
threecrazykids said:
So, when (in your opinion) do you think LE finally accepted the fact that these girls were indeed a victim of a crime? They didn't officially announce it as an abduction until 1 week after they'd been missing.

IMO, even though LE didn't state in MSM that they felt this was a crime scene doesn't mean they were't doing parallel investigations including a possible abduction (or something equally sinister).

Abben said that just because the bikes and purse were there didn't prove the girls themselves were there and that (I believe) was one of the first presser's following the discovery of the bikes. I believe he used the words "It's like they disappeared into thin air".

LE here is known to keep it very quiet. They don't lay their cards out all obvious for everyone to see. I think LE had different agents pursuing every option they could think of from the get go.

The media however swarmed to the lake by the hundreds because that is where all the action was taking place. And if the media was happy to stick to the lake and watch the lake drain I don't think LE was going to do anything to draw attention to a reporter and say "Hey...look over here...were going go talk to (insert name here) because we got a tip she and her boyfriend didn't show up for work Friday".

They were content keeping the media to their 4pm pressers and only reporting what was divulged during those. The rest was all rumor and speculation.

:moo:
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. I think the lake was a convenient media magnet and LE was quite happy with that.

This article is a timeline of the first few days of the search for Elizabeth and Lyric:

http://thegazette.com/2012/12/10/timeline-search-for-girls-reported-missing-in-evansdale/

It is based on the notes that Kent Smock, police and fire chief for Evansdale, made at the time. The following quote refers to 13 July 2012 (the day the girls disappeared):

4:30 p.m., Girls names are entered into the National Crime Information Center, a nationwide FBI database that includes missing persons.
Click to expand...

I think that is proof of just when LE started thinking that this may have involved criminal activity. In other words, less than 2 hours after the girls were reported missing at 2:38 pm, LE started taking concrete action to check various possibilities.
 
Mjskit said:
He is 20? I thought Misty was 33. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

We discussed this a few posts ago - Dillin probably lied about his year of birth in order to get a FB page. MSM reports he is 16, which is probably correct.
 
cindersoot said:
What is the treed area?:waitasec:
Click to expand...

I think he's referring to that little wooded area around Maiden Lane. It's definitely nowhere close to 400 acres and I'd be surprised if it were 4 acres.

My personal impression of AuntTB is that she's honest but doesn't have a good grasp on details. She gets excited and is not the most coherent speaker I've ever listened to.

But I do think she is honest. Honest but sometimes mistaken.
 
GrainneDhu said:
I think he's referring to that little wooded area around Maiden Lane. It's definitely nowhere close to 400 acres and I'd be surprised if it were 4 acres.

My personal impression of AuntTB is that she's honest but doesn't have a good grasp on details. She gets excited and is not the most coherent speaker I've ever listened to.

But I do think she is honest. Honest but sometimes mistaken.
Click to expand...

More like 1/2 an acre.
 
Wow.. I didn't know this existed!
Check out the familial heading (dna testing) at the top of this page too. I thought every state did it, but I guess not.

http://dnaforensics.com/News/view.asp?ID=135

New Forensic Tests Predicts Eye and Hair Color of Unknown Suspects


Friday, August 24, 2012

A new forensic technique called Hirisplex will soon allow investigators to predict certain physical characteristics of suspects, like their hair and eye color, after analyzing traces of DNA that were left at the crime scene.
This type of testing, originated in forensic biology, is called Forensic DNA Phenotyping (FDP). FDP allows police investigators to narrow down a large group of possible suspects. The BBC reported that according to Prof, Manfred Kayser from Erasmus University Medical Center in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, who led the study, tools such as Hirisplex could be useful in those cases where the perpetrator is completely unknown to the authorities. Prof. Kayser said the test "includes the 24 currently best eye and hair color predictive DNA markers. In its design we took care that the test can cope with the challenges of forensic DNA analysis such as low amounts of materia...The test is very sensitive and produces complete results on even smaller DNA amounts than usually used for forensic DNA profiling," he added.
The test system includes the six DNA markers previously used in a test for eye color known as Irisplex, combining them with predictive markers for hair. The authors of the study used Hirisplex to predict hair color phenotypes in a sample drawn from three European populations. On average, their prediction accuracy was 69.5% for blonde hair, 78.5% for brown, 80% for red and 87.5% for black hair color.
The study The HIrisPlex system
 
:websleuther: O.K., my mind is working overtime today, which is why I got a weird idea, and this is why.
Last year my husband had to go through VitalChek online to get a certified copy of his birth certificate from another state. He ordered it, and it never came. :waitasec:
The certificate was supposed to arrive within 7 days, and after a month of it not arriving and calling the state's county clerk everyday that mailed it out, we finally found out the Waterloo Post Office had sent it to the address on the label ... which turned out to be a misprint on the label from the county clerk of the state it was sent out of.
It was an address on our street that didn't even exist! Where did the mailman deliver it to if the number doesn't exist? The county clerk records showed it never was sent back to the return address. That meant ANYONE had the worst thing for us that a criminal could get his hands on to steal.... my husbands identity. We called the police, and they they told us it must have been delivered to a house on our street, and since the post office wasn't going to do anything, they asked for me to go door to door and ask if anybody got it. I did, and all my neighbors said no. It ended there. The Waterloo Police Department didn't do anything, the county clerk from the state that sent it out didn't do anything, the Waterloo Post Office wasn't going to do anything and any criminal had open game to a copy of my husbands BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!! :what:
I was at the end of my rope. My husband was irate to say the least. :furious: I called the Department of Homeland Security to help solve this. Guess what? The same day I called them, they knocked on my door and handed me the unopened copy of my husbands birth certificate. It was 2 doors down, at the same house I had went back to 2 times to double check, and I told the Homeland Security Officer the woman at that house had told me twice she didn't have it!! The officer told me her husband had it, but had forgotten to tell her about it as he had been out of town and laid it on a table in their house. He just got back yesterday and she forgot to mention it to him. :waitasec: Weird, but hey it worked!
Now before you all think I'm bonkers, look at this link, under Solving A Murder.

http://israel21c.org/technology/mindcite-connects-the-dots-to-solve-crime-2/

(Mindcite expands the investigation scope and capacity of Homeland Security)




Maybe that is what it takes to get this solved. All police, FBI and other departments don't always work together, and maybe they could help but haven't been authorized or asked to help on this case. Maybe this is over our heads? Maybe it's some drug ring cartel case to Mexico or some other country, or who knows where that went bad? We don't know. Anyway.. what do you all think?
 
chelsea6 said:
:websleuther: O.K., my mind is working overtime today, which is why I got a weird idea, and this is why.
Last year my husband had to go through VitalChek online to get a certified copy of his birth certificate from another state. He ordered it, and it never came. :waitasec:
The certificate was supposed to arrive within 7 days, and after a month of it not arriving and calling the state's county clerk everyday that mailed it out, we finally found out the Waterloo Post Office had sent it to the address on the label ... which turned out to be a misprint on the label from the county clerk of the state it was sent out of.
It was an address on our street that didn't even exist! Where did the mailman deliver it to if the number doesn't exist? The county clerk records showed it never was sent back to the return address. That meant ANYONE had the worst thing for us that a criminal could get his hands on to steal.... my husbands identity. We called the police, and they they told us it must have been delivered to a house on our street, and since the post office wasn't going to do anything, they asked for me to go door to door and ask if anybody got it. I did, and all my neighbors said no. It ended there. The Waterloo Police Department didn't do anything, the county clerk from the state that sent it out didn't do anything, the Waterloo Post Office wasn't going to do anything and any criminal had open game to a copy of my husbands BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!! :what:
I was at the end of my rope. My husband was irate to say the least. :furious: I called the Department of Homeland Security to help solve this. Guess what? The same day I called them, they knocked on my door and handed me the unopened copy of my husbands birth certificate. It was 2 doors down, at the same house I had went back to 2 times to double check, and I told the Homeland Security Officer the woman at that house had told me twice she didn't have it!! The officer told me her husband had it, but had forgotten to tell her about it as he had been out of town and laid it on a table in their house. He just got back yesterday and she forgot to mention it to him. :waitasec: Weird, but hey it worked!
Now before you all think I'm bonkers, look at this link, under Solving A Murder.

http://israel21c.org/technology/mindcite-connects-the-dots-to-solve-crime-2/

(Mindcite expands the investigation scope and capacity of Homeland Security)




Maybe that is what it takes to get this solved. All police, FBI and other departments don't always work together, and maybe they could help but haven't been authorized or asked to help on this case. Maybe this is over our heads? Maybe it's some drug ring cartel case to Mexico or some other country, or who knows where that went bad? We don't know. Anyway.. what do you all think?
Click to expand...

I know this is off topic but as I sat here reading (before I got to the end) I was giggling thinking about this family who when every day they go get their mail it's ANOTHER copy of some stranger's birth certificate! :floorlaugh:

"Honey...guess what came in the mail today?"
"Let me guess... 5th copy of that guy's birth certificate"

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I'm glad you got it all worked out though...that could ended badly had it gotten into the wrong hands.
 
threecrazykids said:
I know this is off topic but as I sat here reading (before I got to the end) I was giggling thinking about this family who when every day they go get their mail it's ANOTHER copy of some stranger's birth certificate! :floorlaugh:

"Honey...guess what came in the mail today?"
"Let me guess... 5th copy of that guy's birth certificate"

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I'm glad you got it all worked out though...that could ended badly had it gotten into the wrong hands.
Click to expand...

:giggle:
 
chelsea6 said:
:websleuther: O.K., my mind is working overtime today, which is why I got a weird idea, and this is why.
Last year my husband had to go through VitalChek online to get a certified copy of his birth certificate from another state. He ordered it, and it never came. :waitasec:
The certificate was supposed to arrive within 7 days, and after a month of it not arriving and calling the state's county clerk everyday that mailed it out, we finally found out the Waterloo Post Office had sent it to the address on the label ... which turned out to be a misprint on the label from the county clerk of the state it was sent out of.
It was an address on our street that didn't even exist! Where did the mailman deliver it to if the number doesn't exist? The county clerk records showed it never was sent back to the return address. That meant ANYONE had the worst thing for us that a criminal could get his hands on to steal.... my husbands identity. We called the police, and they they told us it must have been delivered to a house on our street, and since the post office wasn't going to do anything, they asked for me to go door to door and ask if anybody got it. I did, and all my neighbors said no. It ended there. The Waterloo Police Department didn't do anything, the county clerk from the state that sent it out didn't do anything, the Waterloo Post Office wasn't going to do anything and any criminal had open game to a copy of my husbands BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!! :what:
I was at the end of my rope. My husband was irate to say the least. :furious: I called the Department of Homeland Security to help solve this. Guess what? The same day I called them, they knocked on my door and handed me the unopened copy of my husbands birth certificate. It was 2 doors down, at the same house I had went back to 2 times to double check, and I told the Homeland Security Officer the woman at that house had told me twice she didn't have it!! The officer told me her husband had it, but had forgotten to tell her about it as he had been out of town and laid it on a table in their house. He just got back yesterday and she forgot to mention it to him. :waitasec: Weird, but hey it worked!
Now before you all think I'm bonkers, look at this link, under Solving A Murder.

http://israel21c.org/technology/mindcite-connects-the-dots-to-solve-crime-2/

(Mindcite expands the investigation scope and capacity of Homeland Security)




Maybe that is what it takes to get this solved. All police, FBI and other departments don't always work together, and maybe they could help but haven't been authorized or asked to help on this case. Maybe this is over our heads? Maybe it's some drug ring cartel case to Mexico or some other country, or who knows where that went bad? We don't know. Anyway.. what do you all think?
Click to expand...

I don't know of any evidence that ties anyone to a "drug ring cartel case to Mexico".

On July 13, the Evansdale P.D. requested help from the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office, the fire department, the FBI, NCMEC and DCI among others.
 
Considering said:
I don't know of any evidence that ties anyone to a "drug ring cartel case to Mexico".

On July 13, the Evansdale P.D. requested help from the Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office, the fire department, the FBI, NCMEC and DCI among others.
Click to expand...

I don't either, I was just using that as an example. We have no idea who the killer(s) is, or what connections this murderer had to anyone. I know the Waterloo Police, Waterloo Post office, or county clerk of that state couldn't help me either. Homeland Security did, and I had to make the call. Even though The Evansdale LE called all those agencies, this may be the one agency that wasn't contacted, and slipped through, and just maybe it's the one to solve this case. Thanks for answering.. much appreciated!! :seeya:
 
chelsea6 said:
I don't either, I was just using that as an example. We have no idea who the killer(s) is, or what connections this murderer had to anyone. I know the Waterloo Police, Waterloo Post office, or county clerk of that state couldn't help me either. Homeland Security did, and I had to make the call. Even though The Evansdale LE called all those agencies, this may be the one agency that wasn't contacted, and slipped through, and just maybe it's the one to solve this case. Thanks for answering.. much appreciated!! :seeya:
Click to expand...

It is a source of continuous frustration to me as a debt consultant.

We have so much technology but the dunderheads in charge of the purse strings choose not to use it in an effective and streamlined manner. You see it in almost every organisation except the extremely successful ones.

Fortunately, LE are finally beginning to catch up and pool information and resources in an orderly fashion but these changes are only reluctantly being adopted and are still patchy at best. I personally believe we have witnessed an unusual amount (or do I mean, a typical amount?) of inter-agency miscommunication in this case.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 83 more.
Total: 2,752 (members: 84, guests: 2,668)

Online statistics

Members online
84
Guests online
2,669
Total visitors
2,753
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
601,296
Messages
18,122,340
Members
230,996
Latest member
unnamedTV
Back
Top