IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[Unique444]

You're local and know there is a killer in your community. In all honesty, would it make you feel any safer if LE came out and said, "be careful, there's a killer in our midst"?

I'm not being snarky, I'm interested in what a local would like to hear from LE in order to feel better. If, as you say, everyone is suspect, what exactly could LE say to alleviate concern in your community?

Thanks.

in saying everyone is suspect, that is in MY mind... as we all know LE has NO suspects. I have heard things that can't be discussed on this board so maybe if LE did any kind of update that would be helpful, at least in my mind. Kind of a tough question because at this point I am kind of leery of LE.... odd behavior of some... JMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

BBM

Does anyone in the community really think LE is no longer running a viable and active investigation? Is it necessary for LE to hold pressers to say, hey guys, we'll still doing our job but we have nothing to tell you?

I just don't know what people are expecting LE to say at this point.

JMO

I know it won't provide us with information but if once a month or every two months they came out and said they are still diligently trying to solve this case it would reassure people that it hasn't been neatly tucked away in the cold cases bin.

I would be 0% surprised if this case is in the "keep it close by in case someone phones in confessing because we've got nothing" bin (which is probably labeled "inactive" for labeling purposes ). Rather than on someone's actual desk with actual effort being out into it. I do think police have followed up on every lead they've received. I just don't think they have anything to work with and aren't sitting around going over everything again and again like us. We don't even know everything they know and we still go over it again and again hoping we can find something out, do anything to find the perp.

 

[iamnotagolem]

in saying everyone is suspect, that is in MY mind... as we all know LE has NO suspects. I have heard things that can't be discussed on this board so maybe if LE did any kind of update that would be helpful, at least in my mind. Kind of a tough question because at this point I am kind of leery of LE.... odd behavior of some... JMO

I can't imagine being in that town and not knowing. It's terrifying to think about. There was recently a rumor here that 4 bodies had been found. I freaked the heck out. I locked down the house, stayed upstairs, watched out the windows and got on my google machine to find out the facts. Turns out a man drowned in the lake, body #1 and a drunk lady had passed out in the road and hit her head leaving blood stains on the road and the road was shut down for a few hours, body #2. Body 3 & 4 didn't really exist other than rumor. But what hit Facebook was hours and hours of discussing this serial killer and how each of the 4 bodies were related.

So there was no killer in my town, but it sure scared me. To live in Evansdale and clearly have a killer nearby would be excruciating. How do you trust your babysitter? Your gas station attendant? Your mailman? How do you answer the door when the UPS guy stops by? How do know who to trust?

This person(s) killed two innocent girls, why would they hesitate to kill again if you look at them wrong, if you accidentally pull out in front of them? Was it a sexually motivated crime? Might help relieve some suspicion of the girl that bags your milk at the supermarket. But at this point they have cleared no one.

I do not think the parents were involved, but since the police haven't cleared them, how do you call Drew and ask him to come cut down a tree? What if he was the killer? I don't think he was, but I can imagine not wanting to risk it.

The silence is brutal. I can't even imagine how the families are coping. If the girls were targeted because of who they were, are their siblings in danger? How excruciating.

 

[iamnotagolem]

But didn't you just post that you knew there was a killer walking among you, and that everyone was suspect? How would having LE confirm that make you feel any better?

A tornado or a rabid dog are things you can identify and avoid, or take precautions against. How can you avoid or take precautions against an unnamed killer?

If there was a presser tomorrow and LE said "there's a killer walking among us", I just don't see how that would serve to make the community any safer. Especially if the community already knows that. JMO

I think there has been quite a bit of speculation that the killer has been arrested on other charges and just hasn't been arrested for the killings. So if that were the case, there would be no need to issue a warning. If that were the case the police could just say that they are actively pursing the perp and that they do not believe there is imminent danger to the community.

Jmo

 

[iamnotagolem]

Chelsea, Squeeze -
Maybe on Feb 13, (the 7-month anniversary) organize a quiet rally at the Police Station in Evansdale with picket signs. Let LE know that the community is upset, wants a small progress report, and is demanding an update. Invite the local news stations to cover it. I don't know if it would help -- but I know I'd do it if I were there. Just to show the girls that people are still fighting for justice for them.

Didn't you say you were single? Maybe it's time to visit Evansdale and join my Date-A-Cop program. The date would be more of an interrogation so for our purposes we'd like you to record the conversation. :floorlaugh:

 

[cindersoot]

Is it normal for LE to be so quiet, this long? Two little girls are dead and the crickets are so loud its deafening.

 

[jenandemmie]

So depressing that we are on thread #28, and we are going around in circles just like we were on thread 1.

This brings me to a philosophical question -

Do you believe LE, as public servants, owe the public more accountability?

While (almost) wholeheartedly supporting LE, some of these crimes like Isabel Celis and Lizzie and Lyric, seem to enter a black hole of silence and stay there forever.

Even if LE chooses NOT to give extra information, do you feel that they owe the public more acknowledgement in the form of regular pressers, even if they say nothing much? Especially to the people in the areas these girls have vanished?

I feel like sometimes, such as in Isa's case, the whole thing just seems to disappear. The investigation becomes invisible, so the public has no way of judging how their money is being spent, or what sort of risks there may be regarding a localised and violent SO.

Even a monthly or bi-monthly presser with Abben or someone saying, Guys, all we can tell you is the investigation is alive and ongoing, thanks for your time, would be better than SILENCE when dead or stolen children are concerned.

Locals in Iowa or Arizona...how do you feel about this? Do you feel like you have a right to know that the girls haven't sunk to the bottom of someone's desk drawer?

I agree and I do think there comes a time when you have to release tidbits. I think that is precisely why Jessica Ridgeway's murder was solved so quickly.

OT, but just like here in my home state, a young college student Patricia Guardado was abducted from a parking lot near the university (across the street but not official school property). She parked sometime before her 9am class and was never seen again alive. No working cameras in the area, no one else was in the lot (although its always full of student cars and people can be seen walking to class all the time). Her body was found a week later floating in a pond about 10 miles from where her car was parked. There has never been any suspect named, nor has COD been released. As a matter of fact, LE wouldn't even tell her mother how she died and didn't think she should view the body. She was a young Hispanic girl, international business major. Left behind two young sisters. No boyfriend in the picture, was a good student, no drugs, all confirmed by her family and friends. She was a beautiful young girl, with a very promising future and she was gone just like that in the middle of the morning. Her car was parked neatly in a spot, the car was locked and her belongings (backpack/purse/cell) were never found. And LE never said another word about it after a few months. Her friends and family have vigils on campus and at her church but nothing from LE. However, there is a new scholarship in her name and now the school provides free trolleys to help with the parking situation. But still LE remains quiet. I used to park there all the time when I had classes on that side of campus but I got so freaked out that I just can't afford that stress every morning before class. I just feel like if they released something it might jog someone's memory... But now we don't know whether it was another student, a worker from one of the businesses, or just some random person. Sad.

 

[Unique444]

I think there has been quite a bit of speculation that the killer has been arrested on other charges and just hasn't been arrested for the killings. So if that were the case, there would be no need to issue a warning. If that were the case the police could just say that they are actively pursing the perp and that they do not believe there is imminent danger to the community.

Jmo

Except when those speculations were being said Kent Smock on a FB page and IIRC it came out in the paper said that, that was not the case.

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM

Does anyone in the community really think LE is no longer running a viable and active investigation? Is it necessary for LE to hold pressers to say, hey guys, we'll still doing our job but we have nothing to tell you?

I just don't know what people are expecting LE to say at this point.

JMO

We know that has been suggested several times right here on this forum, so I can only imagine what the locals are saying.

I've just been onto Isa's thread which is also fallen into the black hole. The only voices we have heard on her disappearance have been her parents, sledging LE and absolving themselves. Some people will believe them, simply because they are the only voices to be heard. The Ramseys have used this tactic successfully for years.

No one minds if this sort of LE silence ends in a successful prosecution, but all too often in recent years it seems to result in an unsolved crime and nothing ever even being mentioned again. These are children we are talking about, the most innocent members of society, and they just seem to be forgotten. The community are expected to shut up and move on without any answers.

I can only imagine what the holiday season was like for some families and friends in Waterloo and Evansdale, each eyeing the other off and wondering secretly if Uncle Bob had an alibi for 13 July.
I just don't think its right.

I think LE have a responsibility to their communities and the victims that is not being met when the official line is resounding SILENCE.

It could also possibly be of benefit to remind the perp/s that they are still being hunted, to be on their guard, to never relax, we are on your trail and we WILL catch you.

Perhaps it will make a perp stop next time they decide to rape or abduct or murder a child in the middle of town. Maybe it could make them break down under the pressure and tell somebody what they did.

Maybe the benefit outweighs the "pointlessness" in unseen ways.

Certainly, it can do no harm. All I wish for is semi-regular pressers or press releases or posts on a website or something on crimestoppers. A few minutes of someone's time just to remind everyone that the crime is still in the "active" tray. It doesn't seem to be much to ask of an organisation that relies on public funding, it can do no harm, and it might even cause the case to break open.

:dunno:

 

[cindersoot]

I wonder if LE is feeling any pressure?

 

[threecrazykids]

BBM

Does anyone in the community really think LE is no longer running a viable and active investigation? Is it necessary for LE to hold pressers to say, hey guys, we'll still doing our job but we have nothing to tell you?

I just don't know what people are expecting LE to say at this point.

JMO

Absolutely! I do NOT believe they are running a viable, let alone active investigation.

(Not directed at you Marilynilpa) but my question would be -

What indicates they ARE actively running a viable investigation?

From what LE has given me so far, this is what I believe:
They not only are clueless as to who did this, but also when and where. They may have gotten lucky and due to the finding of the bodies learn the how...but it's not enough.

 

[chelsea6]

But didn't you just post that you knew there was a killer walking among you, and that everyone was suspect? How would having LE confirm that make you feel any better?

A tornado or a rabid dog are things you can identify and avoid, or take precautions against. How can you avoid or take precautions against an unnamed killer?

If there was a presser tomorrow and LE said "there's a killer walking among us", I just don't see how that would serve to make the community any safer. Especially if the community already knows that. JMO

A lot of people are assuming the silence
coming from police means the killer is identified and they are watching his every move while they have his phone tapped are following him in unmarked detective vehicles , etc. to provide a solid conviction. me, i think everyone.e is suspect but for the parents that think otherwise the police being silent means they are back to normal again..Mayberry fantasy. but a killer is something they should be alerted
to. Extra attention to children's whereabouts can be a prevension measure ...the police provide that when there are burgluries in unmarked certain areas of town and its on the news so people can lock garages and other measures. a killer on the loose should get more coverage than a potential burgler. sorry on the cell phone bad spellng small keyboard.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Didn't you say you were single? Maybe it's time to visit Evansdale and join my Date-A-Cop program. The date would be more of an interrogation so for our purposes we'd like you to record the conversation. :floorlaugh:

LOL! Stop making me MORE paranoid! Yes, I'm recently single. That's why I spend all my time here! :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[Marilynilpa]

in saying everyone is suspect, that is in MY mind... as we all know LE has NO suspects. I have heard things that can't be discussed on this board so maybe if LE did any kind of update that would be helpful, at least in my mind. Kind of a tough question because at this point I am kind of leery of LE.... odd behavior of some... JMO

It must be tough hearing things you can discuss here, and I know the frustration level has to be tough for all of you guys living in or near Evansdale. Heck, it's frustrating for me and I don't even live in your area!

I agree that LE hasn't been very forthcoming with information on this case, and it's easy to point to other cases where LE seemed to handle themselves differently, such as the Jessica Ridgeway case.

I like JaimeInLA's suggestion - maybe a quiet rally at the police station would get the point across that LE needs to keep their community informed. JMO

 

[threecrazykids]

We know that has been suggested several times right here on this forum, so I can only imagine what the locals are saying.

I've just been onto Isa's thread which is also fallen into the black hole. The only voices we have heard on her disappearance have been her parents, sledging LE and absolving themselves. Some people will believe them, simply because they are the only voices to be heard. The Ramseys have used this tactic successfully for years.

No one minds if this sort of LE silence ends in a successful prosecution, but all too often in recent years it seems to result in an unsolved crime and nothing ever even being mentioned again. These are children we are talking about, the most innocent members of society, and they just seem to be forgotten. The community are expected to shut up and move on without any answers.

I can only imagine what the holiday season was like for some families and friends in Waterloo and Evansdale, each eyeing the other off and wondering secretly if Uncle Bob had an alibi for 13 July.
I just don't think its right.

I think LE have a responsibility to their communities and the victims that is not being met when the official line is resounding SILENCE.

It could also possibly be of benefit to remind the perp/s that they are still being hunted, to be on their guard, to never relax, we are on your trail and we WILL catch you.

Perhaps it will make a perp stop next time they decide to rape or abduct or murder a child in the middle of town. Maybe it could make them break down under the pressure and tell somebody what they did.

Maybe the benefit outweighs the "pointlessness" in unseen ways.

Certainly, it can do no harm. All I wish for is semi-regular pressers or press releases or posts on a website or something on crimestoppers. A few minutes of someone's time just to remind everyone that the crime is still in the "active" tray. It doesn't seem to be much to ask of an organisation that relies on public funding, it can do no harm, and it might even cause the case to break open.

:dunno:

http://iowacoldcases.org/homicides-2000-present/

The fact that the girls names are listed on the cold case files resonates with me.

 

[SapphireSteel]

http://iowacoldcases.org/homicides-2000-present/

The fact that the girls names are listed on the cold case files resonates with me.

:what:

Things like that, and LE silence...it really makes you fear another Hailey Dunn type situation, especially as we know in this case, the perp is most likely local. Everyone will be suspect, for ever.

That person is walking around town feeling pretty damn cocky right about now, hiding in plain sight.

They're probably figuring they got away with it and maybe they're right. :sick:

They'd be a lot less cocky if Smock's face came on telly for 5 minutes every fourth Friday night, or was in the local rag front page once a month, telling the world they are still being hunted.

 

[24Roses]

Evelyn Miller's family & friends waited 7 years for an arrest with little updates in the news other than on the yearly anniversary of her death; I hope justice for the girls don't take that long. However, when we get an arrest, I think the silence & length of time will be well worth it. For the record, I didn't think Casey Fredricksen was the one who killed her. I always thought it was the 2 guys who visited in the middle of the night.
I do change my mind on a daily basis if LE knows more than they are letting us believe they do. Maybe silence really is golden in this case & they just want the perp to believe they have no clue as to what happened.

 

[threecrazykids]

Evelyn Miller's family & friends waited 7 years for an arrest with little updates in the news other than on the yearly anniversary of her death; I hope justice for the girls don't take that long. However, when we get an arrest, I think the silence & length of time will be well worth it. For the record, I didn't think Casey Fredricksen was the one who killed her. I always thought it was the 2 guys who visited in the middle of the night.
I do change my mind on a daily basis if LE knows more than they are letting us believe they do. Maybe silence really is golden in this case & they just want the perp to believe they have no clue as to what happened.

We are holding onto nothing but HOPE that is the reason for the silence.

I will not dismiss the fact that the "key" to the arrest of Casey Frederickson was the fact that he ran his mouth. That was the big "break" in the case. Whew...good thing he was a fool and couldn't keep quiet.:banghead:
Like I said before...I certainly hope they have all their ducks in a row, because if by some weird twist of events that confession gets thrown out, what does LE have? EVERYTHING ELSE THEY HAD BEFORE HE TALKED. I hope it's enough to convict.

And what if this perp isn't a fool...what if they don't run their mouth?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Below is contact info for KWWL:

https://www.facebook.com/KWWL7

kwwlnews@kwwl.com (e-mail to newsroom)

KWWL Waterloo Newsroom
1-800-947-7746 or 319-291-1240

The following link provides all kinds of contact info for the WCFCourier. Maybe they should be contacted as well:

http://wcfcourier.com/app/contact-us/

If anyone feels there needs to be more info released about this case, maybe contacting the local news station and paper might accomplish something.

Also, there is a Citizen Advisory Counsel for Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office. Here is a link that describes what it does. I'm certain someone local could contact a member of this advisory counsel with their concerns over the lack of information provided by LE to the local community.

http://www.bhcso.org/UserFiles/docs/PDF_CAC_History.pdf

Instead of talking about our frustration here on WS, maybe we should be letting the local media know how we feel about it. JMO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Evelyn Miller's family & friends waited 7 years for an arrest with little updates in the news other than on the yearly anniversary of her death; I hope justice for the girls don't take that long. However, when we get an arrest, I think the silence & length of time will be well worth it. For the record, I didn't think Casey Fredricksen was the one who killed her. I always thought it was the 2 guys who visited in the middle of the night.
I do change my mind on a daily basis if LE knows more than they are letting us believe they do. Maybe silence really is golden in this case & they just want the perp to believe they have no clue as to what happened.

Maybe they waited 7 years because a new broom came into the department and FINALLY decided they had enough evidence to make an arrest.

Maybe LE had known all along who likely did it, but they either screwed up the evidence or just plain couldn't find any, and the guy in charge didn't want to be "embarrassed" by bringing charges he wasn't sure he could win, like in Jonbenet's case.

Maybe all these things need at times are a fresh eye.

Cold Case investigations are very often successful. They often reveal an obvious suspect and/or evidence overlooked/mishandled by the original investigation.

If LE aren't still asking the public for information, then they usually don't get any. Black Hawk County LE do not give me the impression they are on top of this, not any more.

The girls have only been gone for 7 months, not 7 years. It would be awful to think this is solvable, just caught up in internal politics somehow and slowly icing over.