IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[BunnyHop]

Sorry, OT again. I live very close to Sandy Hook CT. There was a controversy in a CT Town regarding the name of one of the fallen.
Many were opposed to renaming a street after her. Just rang a bell, thinking. :twocents:

 

[Marilynilpa]

According to the following, it seems that if someone from the City of Evansdale is supervising, it's okay to cut a tree in a public place:

151.04 TRIMMING TREES TO BE SUPERVISED. Except as allowed in Section 151.03, it is unlawful for any person to trim or cut any tree in a street or public place unless the work is done under the supervision of the City.

http://www.evansdale.govoffice.com/...ds/{BB0076E0-F9B1-4632-B598-36462BBE4040}.PDF

 

[foxbluff]

What I find as a contradiction is, and not just in this case, when victims come out and say they have forgiven ...but then they are pushing for the death penalty.

Of course, I am opposed to the death penalty so maybe that's why I find it hypocritical.

:hiding:

I see you.

BBM - You're not the only one that has a problem with that. The best I can come up with is this: HC has faith that her dau is now in a better place. So, perhaps she wants to send the killer to a better place, too.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Maybe a local can chime in and explain the reasoning behind clearing the island? Is there some deeper meaning to the island? From what I've read the pedestrian bridge and park are being built using donated funds, correct? I would think all of that work is expensive. Isn't there already a park area on the lake? Wouldn't the money stretch further by expanding that and putting benches there?

It just makes me think the family must feel there is some significance to the trees in the island. Was it blocking the view of where the bikes were found when the family was in the parking lot? It's not uncommon in tragedy to strike out and blame someone or something. Do they feel like the other people at the lake that day fishing, riding bikes, playing on the playground etc would have been able to see the girls and prevent the kidnapping if the trees on the island were not obstructing the view?

Maybe I'm looking for logic and reason when that isn't pushing this project forward?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Apparently the city's Park Board has approved everything that has been done so far:

Saturday’s vote covered the construction of a pedestrian trail connecting the small island to the shore. According to plans, it will consist of a causeway with two culverts to allow the lake water to circulate, Park Board President Jeff Dawson said.

The path will connect with the rest of the bike trail that almost circles lake. It will start at the shore about where the existing retaining wall ends, not far from where a Sherman tank sits.

The motion also approved clearing undergrowth from the island to allow for better visibility.

http://qctimes.com/news/state-and-r...cle_fdb2b11a-7e17-11e2-9f45-0019bb2963f4.html

BBM

Clearing undergrowth is different than cutting down trees, IMO.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Apparently the city's Park Board has approved everything that has been done so far:

Saturday’s vote covered the construction of a pedestrian trail connecting the small island to the shore. According to plans, it will consist of a causeway with two culverts to allow the lake water to circulate, Park Board President Jeff Dawson said.

The path will connect with the rest of the bike trail that almost circles lake. It will start at the shore about where the existing retaining wall ends, not far from where a Sherman tank sits.

The motion also approved clearing undergrowth from the island to allow for better visibility.

http://qctimes.com/news/state-and-r...cle_fdb2b11a-7e17-11e2-9f45-0019bb2963f4.html

BBM

Clearing undergrowth is different than cutting down trees, IMO.

I understand clearing the undergrowth and making it safe. I just can't tell if they are clearing all of the trees or just enough to put in the trail and gazebo.

 

[BunnyHop]

According to the following, it seems that if someone from the City of Evansdale is supervising, it's okay to cut a tree in a public place:

151.04 TRIMMING TREES TO BE SUPERVISED. Except as allowed in Section 151.03, it is unlawful for any person to trim or cut any tree in a street or public place unless the work is done under the supervision of the City.

http://www.evansdale.govoffice.com/...ds/{BB0076E0-F9B1-4632-B598-36462BBE4040}.PDF

Thanks. My question would then be; is this deforestation supervised by the city? As an aside, I own a small business in a "historical business district". Everything we do must be approved by the town. Our CO and permits have cost us almost $500.00 so far. I have had to read town codes on every little thing, as well as meet with planning board etc..........

 

[foxbluff]

OT and a sad note;
FBI dog killed in NY shootout was on 2nd mission

Ape was shot by Kurt Myers as it led the way for officers who stormed an abandoned bar where Myers was hiding early Thursday morning. Police say they cornered Myers after he killed four people and wounded two others the day before.

Myers shot at officers and hit Ape. Police returned fire and killed him.

Ape was a 2-year-old Czech German Shepherd that joined the FBI on Feb. 25 after completing a four-month tactical training course.

Ape's body will be taken to Quantico, Va., where the FBI Academy is located and a memorial will be held. Ape's name will be added to a memorial wall there.
Pic of Ape inside.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/03/14/2750300/fbi-dog-killed-in-ny-shootout.html

Ty Bunny for finding this link. Ape's story touches me deeply.

Hopefully Loki's new protective vest will keep him safe.

 

[BunnyHop]

Ty Bunny for finding this link. Ape's story touches me deeply.

Hopefully Loki's new protective vest will keep him safe.

I had a German Shepard growing up. So I understand. Best damn dog there was. Smart as Hell. I have a soft spot for all service dogs.

 

[cluciano63]

What reason could any LE have for not coming out and admitting a case is a homicide? That really baffles me. Obviously the girls were murdered, IMO. Could they really not have been able to determine cause of death?

 

[Marilynilpa]

What reason could any LE have for not coming out and admitting a case is a homicide? That really baffles me. Obviously the girls were murdered, IMO. Could they really not have been able to determine cause of death?

BBM

Either they haven't YET determined cause of death, or they are unable to determine cause of death. JMO.

I can understand LE keeping vital info to themselves, but I think if they knew this was officially a homicide, they would say so. JMO.

I can't help thinking that the bodies were in such poor condition that COD can't be determined. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[jn0920]

Jumping in here on the last couple comments. It would make sense to me that LE is not releasing information on the case to help them in the end. The less information released to the public the fewer people that know. The fewer people that know the more information only the kidnapper/murder knows. This could prevent the wrong person from confessing and a safe case closed conviction.

I'm a local and I'm not really sure why they are making way for a new gazebo and not just using available land. The only reason I can think of is to connect the walking path. You would think they would want the view of the interstate to remain fairly blocked, but who knows.

All IMO of course..


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[joerose]

Pretty dry?
1. He's wearing a sweat band
2. Can you see his back?
3. I ride a bike, and even on the warmest days, the breeze from riding tends to cool you off. :twocents:
4. Looks like nylon shorts that stay dry

I was actually noticing his underarm area. Can't see the back. His chest and neck areas are dry to.

 

[cluciano63]

BBM

Either they haven't YET determined cause of death, or they are unable to determine cause of death. JMO.

I can understand LE keeping vital info to themselves, but I think if they knew this was officially a homicide, they would say so. JMO.

I can't help thinking that the bodies were in such poor condition that COD can't be determined. I hope I'm wrong.

Even so, the manner of death should be obvious, one would think, i.e the only choices are natural causes, accidental, homicide or suicide, as far as I know.

 

[jn0920]

Even so, the manner of death should be obvious, one would think, i.e the only choices are natural causes, accidental, homicide or suicide, as far as I know.

The only reason I can think of the manner of death to not be released is if its a tough call. Totally taking a wild guess and not to be violent here but... say someone hurt these girls, left them alive and unconscious, then the natural environment or animals eventually got to them. Perhaps their bodies weren't in the woods the whole time so they are more badly decomposed than we believe.

I completely agree with your reasoning the manor of death should be obvious so that's how I've come to my opinion.


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[Marilynilpa]

Even so, the manner of death should be obvious, one would think, i.e the only choices are natural causes, accidental, homicide or suicide, as far as I know.

I agree. LE has said they are looking for "people responsible" for the girls' deaths:

Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock told The Des Moines Register on Wednesday that the causes and other details about the deaths of 8-year-old Elizabeth and 10-year-old Lyric will be kept confidential in order to protect the investigation.

Smock says "the only people that are going to know this information are the people who are responsible."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ns-death-details-kept-confidential-by-police/

BBM

IMO, this means homicide even if LE isn't officially calling it that.

 

[cluciano63]

The only reason I can think of the manner of death to not be released is if its a tough call. Totally taking a wild guess and not to be violent here but... say someone hurt these girls, left them alive and unconscious, then the natural environment or animals eventually got to them. Perhaps their bodies weren't in the woods the whole time so they are more badly decomposed than we believe.

I completely agree with your reasoning the manor of death should be obvious so that's how I've come to my opinion.


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Still, that would be homicide. If a persons dies as a result or during kidnapping, it is homicide, even if they die of a heart attack.

 

[Marilynilpa]

The only reason I can think of the manner of death to not be released is if its a tough call. Totally taking a wild guess and not to be violent here but... say someone hurt these girls, left them alive and unconscious, then the natural environment or animals eventually got to them. Perhaps their bodies weren't in the woods the whole time so they are more badly decomposed than we believe.

I completely agree with your reasoning the manor of death should be obvious so that's how I've come to my opinion.


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Some of us have discussed the possibility that the girls might have been left there alive, but incapacitated somehow (tied up, knocked out, etc.) While I hate to think of that possibility, at this point we can't rule anything out. JMO.

But it seems this would still be considered homicide, wouldn't it?

 

[jn0920]

Some of us have discussed the possibility that the girls might have been left there alive, but incapacitated somehow (tied up, knocked out, etc.) While I hate to think of that possibility, at this point we can't rule anything out. JMO.

But it seems this would still be considered homicide, wouldn't it?

Yes that would still be a homicide. IMO for them to not reveal the manor of death it would have to be a close call or inconclusive. Based on their location, going missing and their young age, I believe homicide would be the best bet. However, maybe their evidence doesn't line up with homicide. Just speculating here, whatever the reason I have to believe LE has these girls best interest for justice in mind.


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[jn0920]

Another thought that has often nagged me is that it's possible LE fears for the safety of specific people and there's concern for releasing manor of death. I would not find it hard to believe that in a close community like edale someone would take justice into their own hands outside of a court room.


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