IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[cluciano63]

But surely it is assumed locally that they were murdered. And for the girls to get to where they were found, surely they were taken there, i.e kidnapped? Therefore, death resulting would be homicide. I don't mean to harp on this point, but it seems very odd not to simply state what seems to be the obvious. JMO

 

[alliemay]

Not sure how it works but I think if they were to label it a homicide (which everyone knows it is) they would also have to release COD. Maybe they go hand in hand so to speak. I know the parents don't want to know the COD, but not sure that would be the main reason why LE would not label it homicide/and release COD. For some reason I think they another reason why they are not releasing the info.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Not sure how it works but I think if they were to label it a homicide (which everyone knows it is) they would also have to release COD. Maybe they go hand in hand so to speak. I know the parents don't want to know the COD, but not sure that would be the main reason why LE would not label it homicide/and release COD. For some reason I think they another reason why they are not releasing the info.

I respectfully disagree - releasing the manner of death (homicide) doesn't mean LE has to reveal the cause of death. JMO

IIRC, Heather is the only one parent who has stated she doesn't want to know the details.

But who knows, maybe LE will keep both manner AND cause of death a secret until someone is arrested and goes to trial.

 

[Marilynilpa]

But surely it is assumed locally that they were murdered. And for the girls to get to where they were found, surely they were taken there, i.e kidnapped? Therefore, death resulting would be homicide. I don't mean to harp on this point, but it seems very odd not to simply state what seems to be the obvious. JMO

I completely agree. I doubt there is anyone who believes the girls died by any other manner than homicide.

 

[threecrazykids]

I think the COD tests are back, but they just aren't releasing it:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ns-death-details-kept-confidential-by-police/

Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock told The Des Moines Register on Wednesday that the causes and other details about the deaths of 8-year-old Elizabeth and 10-year-old Lyric will be kept confidential in order to protect the investigation.

Causes

So, let's get nit-picky :floorlaugh: when he says causeS does he mean plural because there are 2 girls? OR does he mean causeS meaning the girls had different or more than one manner of death?

 

[alliemay]

I respectfully disagree - releasing the manner of death (homicide) doesn't mean LE has to reveal the cause of death. JMO

IIRC, Heather is the only one parent who has stated she doesn't want to know the details.

But who knows, maybe LE will keep both manner AND cause of death a secret until someone is arrested and goes to trial.

Yes, that's why I said I wasn't sure how it works.

 

[Bootsctr]

I think the COD tests are back, but they just aren't releasing it:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ns-death-details-kept-confidential-by-police/

Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock told The Des Moines Register on Wednesday that the causes and other details about the deaths of 8-year-old Elizabeth and 10-year-old Lyric will be kept confidential in order to protect the investigation.

Causes

So, let's get nit-picky :floorlaugh: when he says causeS does he mean plural because there are 2 girls? OR does he mean causeS meaning the girls had different or more than one manner of death?

Well, now that's a deep subject; personally, I assume he means/says causes as plural because there are 2 girls. BUT, since we are getting nit-picky, maybe he does mean the girls had different CODs. Have a nagging feeling that one girl was the intended target and she may have been kept alive longer than the other girl. God! This is awful to think about! I gotta take a break! :sick: :anguish: :shakehead: :crossfingers: PLease let there be DNA! Please let someone come forward with information. :drink: hdear:
:help: AT this point, I feel so numb and void, I doubt anything would :shocked2: me. :thud:

 

[Bootsctr]

I respectfully disagree - releasing the manner of death (homicide) doesn't mean LE has to reveal the cause of death. JMO

IIRC, Heather is the only one parent who has stated she doesn't want to know the details.

But who knows, maybe LE will keep both manner AND cause of death a secret until someone is arrested and goes to trial.

Personally, the only reason I believe Heather says she doesn't want to know is because of her heart! I read that Somer Thompson's aunt physically passed out at the press meeting where Diena Thompson told how Somer was killed: "asphyxiation and multiple blunt force injury." :facepalm: :notgood:

 

[alliemay]

Personally, the only reason I believe Heather says she doesn't want to know is because of her heart! I read that Somer Thompson's aunt physically passed out at the press meeting where Diena Thompson told how Somer was killed: "asphyxiation and multiple blunt force injury." :facepalm: :notgood:

Yes I would think it would her heart condition also. I also wonder if she is speaking on behalf of her sister, since no other parent/parents are speaking out we really don't know how they feel.

 

[Bootsctr]

Yes I would think it would her heart condition also. I also wonder if she is speaking on behalf of her sister, since no other parent/parents are speaking out we really don't know how they feel.

I wonder the same thing. I think there was an article that said some family members did want to know the COD, but were not specifically named. IMO, COD will eventually be released but probably not until an arrest and a trial. Just speculating though.

 

[shoregirl]

BBM

Either they haven't YET determined cause of death, or they are unable to determine cause of death. JMO.

I can understand LE keeping vital info to themselves, but I think if they knew this was officially a homicide, they would say so. JMO.

I can't help thinking that the bodies were in such poor condition that COD can't be determined. I hope I'm wrong.

I have been studying your post and I was thinking how many CODs would not be able to be determined? Stabbing, stragulation, shooting and drowning are pretty much determined. Asphyixation is the only I can think of and maybe stabbing if they didn't hit a bone. Anymore you can think of?

 

[threecrazykids]

So...can anyone tell me how many times a case like this has happened before?

Someone is able to abduct 2 girls at the same time (assuming to be in a vehicle of some sort)

leaves no sign of a struggle at the scene

leaves behind their bikes and a purse, but no other discernable evidence to get a lead

murders them SOMEWHERE

and leaves them in a park about 20 miles away, again, leaving not enough evidence behind to warrant an arrest (let alone a conviction)

For cryin' out loud...this is quite the crime to pull off.

This person has (so far) pulled off a double murder of 2 little girls in broad daylight...off their bikes, at a park, on a bike trail next to the 2nd busiest interstate in the entire state (that was at a standstill with construction), drove these girls to an "undisclosed" location and murdered them, then dumped their bodies at a public park. OR he took them to the public park and killed them there and left them for dead.

If the people around this community are feeling safe and trustworthy of LE, they shouldn't be...because I can't seem to find cases (online) where this circumstance has ever happened before...this person is quite the murderer. :banghead:

 

[threecrazykids]

I feel strongly that SOME part of this timeline is NOT true. I don't know which part...but it's just my gut feeling that there is something tossed into the timeline that is not factual.

No idea why...I just feel that is the case. :moo:

 

[shoregirl]

So...can anyone tell me how many times a case like this has happened before?

Someone is able to abduct 2 girls at the same time (assuming to be in a vehicle of some sort)

leaves no sign of a struggle at the scene

leaves behind their bikes and a purse, but no other discernable evidence to get a lead

murders them SOMEWHERE

and leaves them in a park about 20 miles away, again, leaving not enough evidence behind to warrant an arrest (let alone a conviction)

For cryin' out loud...this is quite the crime to pull off.

This person has (so far) pulled off a double murder of 2 little girls in broad daylight...off their bikes, at a park, on a bike trail next to the 2nd busiest interstate in the entire state (that was at a standstill with construction), drove these girls to an "undisclosed" location and murdered them, then dumped their bodies at a public park. OR he took them to the public park and killed them there and left them for dead.

If the people around this community are feeling safe and trustworthy of LE, they shouldn't be...because I can't seem to find cases (online) where this circumstance has ever happened before...this person is quite the murderer. :banghead:

I apologize in advance for asking this but was it confirmed that this was not the original crime scene? Or was it assumed it wasn't because they appeared to not be buried?

 

[threecrazykids]

I apologize in advance for asking this but was it confirmed that this was not the original crime scene? Or was it assumed it wasn't because they appeared to not be buried?

Nothing was confirmed via LE at all. The only mention of it NOT being the original crime scene was via a CNN transcript where the reporter claimed that "police have said" that they believed the girls were dumped there and that the girls were NOT murdered at the same location where the bodies were found.

But no...nothing of the sort was ever actually mentioned or released by LE as to whether this was where the girls were actually murdered.

ETA: heck...LE hasn't even changed this to a homicide yet, that I'm aware of.

 

[carbuff]

I have been studying your post and I was thinking how many CODs would not be able to be determined? Stabbing, stragulation, shooting and drowning are pretty much determined. Asphyixation is the only I can think of and maybe stabbing if they didn't hit a bone. Anymore you can think of?

Depends on how much soft tissue remains and how much damage was left on the bones. Hypothetically speaking, and not suggesting that any of these is the real cause:

Drowning probably couldn't be determined in this case.

Suffocation often doesn't leave that kind of mark.

Poisoning -- some poisons might leave detectable traces, but you kind of have to know what you're looking for.

Hypothermia or heatstroke wouldn't leave any detectable traces.

Natural causes -- heart attack, stroke, asthmatic attack, allergic reaction -- wouldn't be detectable unless soft tissue was left.

Electrocution? Not sure about that one.

Those are just a few off the top of my head. Again, I'm not saying that any of these is likely, just that they might not leave traces after several months.

 

[shoregirl]

Nothing was confirmed via LE at all. The only mention of it NOT being the original crime scene was via a CNN transcript where the reporter claimed that "police have said" that they believed the girls were dumped there and that the girls were NOT murdered at the same location where the bodies were found.

But no...nothing of the sort was ever actually mentioned or released by LE as to whether this was where the girls were actually murdered.

ETA: heck...LE hasn't even changed this to a homicide yet, that I'm aware of.

That makes me feel better about memory....yikes this one is so frustrating.

 

[threecrazykids]

My brain is fried today...

Are we allowed to post youtube videos?

 

[carbuff]

I feel strongly that SOME part of this timeline is NOT true. I don't know which part...but it's just my gut feeling that there is something tossed into the timeline that is not factual.

No idea why...I just feel that is the case. :moo:

Yeah. Me too. Something misidentified or mislocated or something. I dunno.

 

[shoregirl]

Yeah. Me too. Something misidentified or mislocated or something. I dunno.

I agree, the only thing I am sure of is the video. I don't feel it is deliberately wrong, just a case of someone wanting to be involved and fudging the time to fit or had the wrong day, something like that.