IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #30

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
georger said:
We may be over-estimating and under-estimating what 'crazy' people will do,
on a hot day during July. Especially if there already is a grudge.

from former post: "or Lyric may have had the "bull in a china shop" approach
(that her paternal grandmother described)."

I speak with some experience. I was run off the road on my bike at age eight by
some lady who opposed a school bond election where my relative was the
Superintendent. The lady had every intention of damaging me for who I was! Our
Chief of Police had that lady in jail - as fast as he could find her!
The community erupted. The lady stood in front of a Judge and said she would
do it again if it kept her and her husbands taxes from going up! It was unreal.
I became a skinned up eight year old "of the world" very fast! (laughing today about
it but I wasn't laughing at the time!!!)

If there is nothing compelling about a sexual connection, or revenge involving Dan,
then it almost has to be something else that happened ...
Click to expand...

I have a strange feeling there could be other family members that someone may have a grudge against. Again...this didn't happen on Dan's turf. It happened in Evansdale, which is Heather and Drew's stomping ground.

If the perp was out for Lyric, they would have had to of known where Grandma lived, followed her and Lyric to the Collins', wait for the girls to leave, etc. Why not just do it in Waterloo when there was ample opportunity? I think it's safe to say that Lyric's supervision (and also Elizabeth's) was fairly lax.

I think there was PLENTY of opportunity to do this to either one, alone, if they wanted to.
 
Check out prayer request the beginning of Feb - tragedy strikes again for this family.

http://heartlandvineyard.org/aspx/current_requests.aspx

(I am reviewing online prayer requests to see if there may be someone pleading for forgiveness (?) as a result of an act directly or indirectly relating to L&E, as I have not ruled out the possibility that a member of this congregation may be responsible.)
 
threecrazykids said:
Just a general question...hopefully someone knows the answer to:

What evidence is required to obtain an arrest warrant for a murder? What ducks have to be in a row before one will be issued?

I'm just trying to determine what would be missing (or needed for that manner) that's preventing an arrest warrant from being issued.

Do you need:

Cause of death?
DNA evidence?
Weapon used to commit the murder (if any weapon was used)?
Motive?
Evidence of the perp being at the location of at least one, if not all crime scenes?
Determine and prove where the actual murder took place (if it wasn't the same location as the discovery site)?

How many of these (plus any others, if required) have to be met before someone would be charged with a murder?

Please add any other evidence that would be required before you feel an arrest warrant would be issued to charge someone with murder.

Thanks guys!:seeya:
Click to expand...

This is such a big case and I'm sure LE wants to get it right the first time, I would think DNA evidence would lock this in or a confession for sure. I don't feel like they have enough evidence and they might not of got any DNA and that's why they are so secretive on every little detail. It's all they got, so if they do catch the perp then only he will know these details. I also know that even if the perp failed a lie detector test, they cannot go forward with that since it will not stand up in court. I feel that they have their suspect and are waiting for him to screw up. They just don't have enough evidence.
 
threecrazykids said:
Just a general question...hopefully someone knows the answer to:

What evidence is required to obtain an arrest warrant for a murder? What ducks have to be in a row before one will be issued?

I'm just trying to determine what would be missing (or needed for that manner) that's preventing an arrest warrant from being issued.

Do you need:

Cause of death?
DNA evidence?
Weapon used to commit the murder (if any weapon was used)?
Motive?
Evidence of the perp being at the location of at least one, if not all crime scenes?
Determine and prove where the actual murder took place (if it wasn't the same location as the discovery site)?

How many of these (plus any others, if required) have to be met before someone would be charged with a murder?

Please add any other evidence that would be required before you feel an arrest warrant would be issued to charge someone with murder.

Thanks guys!:seeya:
Click to expand...

LE needs probable cause:

Apparent facts discovered through logical inquiry that would lead a reasonably intelligent and prudent person to believe that an accused person has committed a crime, thereby warranting his or her prosecution

snip

To obtain a search or arrest warrant, officers must present to the magistrate or judge enough facts to constitute probable cause. A warrant is not required for all searches and all arrests. Courts have carved out exceptions that allow police to search and arrest persons without a warrant when obtaining a warrant would be impractical.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/probable+cause

I don't believe it's necessary to know COD or have the murder weapon or DNA in order to obtain an arrest warrant.
 
threecrazykids said:
I have a strange feeling there could be other family members that someone may have a grudge against. Again...this didn't happen on Dan's turf. It happened in Evansdale, which is Heather and Drew's stomping ground.

If the perp was out for Lyric, they would have had to of known where Grandma lived, followed her and Lyric to the Collins', wait for the girls to leave, etc. Why not just do it in Waterloo when there was ample opportunity? I think it's safe to say that Lyric's supervision (and also Elizabeth's) was fairly lax.

I think there was PLENTY of opportunity to do this to either one, alone, if they wanted to.
Click to expand...

BBM

I agree with you. :rocker:

Jumping off your post, there is a place, outside of family, where the girls' lives intersected, and that is church. If someone targeted both girls, perhaps it's someone they knew from church. NNMO, but it's something to consider.
 
B4igo2it said:
Check out prayer request the beginning of Feb - tragedy strikes again for this family.

http://heartlandvineyard.org/aspx/current_requests.aspx

(I am reviewing online prayer requests to see if there may be someone pleading for forgiveness (?) as a result of an act directly or indirectly relating to L&E, as I have not ruled out the possibility that a member of this congregation may be responsible.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, that is really sad. Poor baby - I hope she has a full recovery.
 
Marilynilpa said:
BBM

I agree with you. :rocker:

Jumping off your post, there is a place, outside of family, where the girls' lives intersected, and that is church. If someone targeted both girls, perhaps it's someone they knew from church. NNMO, but it's something to consider.
Click to expand...

Great thought! Did Lyric and her family attend the same church as the Collins'? For some reason I was under the impression that Lyric's family went to a different church or didn't attend regularly.

Thanks! Great thinking! :rocker:
 
threecrazykids said:
Great thought! Did Lyric and her family attend the same church as the Collins'? For some reason I was under the impression that Lyric's family went to a different church or didn't attend regularly.

Thanks! Great thinking! :rocker:
Click to expand...

I'll have to look for a link, but I'm pretty sure Lyric (and Misty ?) attended that church at one time. Not sure how long ago it was, or how long they attended, though.

ETA: Maybe it was just Lyric, who attended while she was living with the Collins family???

ETA #2: An estimated 700 people turned out for a vigil Monday night at Heartland Vineyard Church in Cedar Falls. Families of the missing cousins, Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, of Waterloo, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, of Evansdale, attend the church, according to pastors.

http://thegazette.com/2012/07/17/vigil-for-missing-evansdale-girls-draws-hundreds/

BBM
 
After the Concert for the Angels is over, and Lizzie is buried, and the Meyers Lake Memorial Island of Evansdale is complete, I wonder what Heather will find to keep herself busy.

I'm not being snarky, by the way. I really think that Heather keeps herself immersed in all the fundraising and memorial plans, etc., to keep from being still long enough to understand that Lizzie is forever gone. JMO.
 
Marilynilpa said:
I'll have to look for a link, but I'm pretty sure Lyric (and Misty ?) attended that church at one time. Not sure how long ago it was, or how long they attended, though.

ETA: Maybe it was just Lyric, who attended while she was living with the Collins family???

ETA #2: An estimated 700 people turned out for a vigil Monday night at Heartland Vineyard Church in Cedar Falls. Families of the missing cousins, Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, of Waterloo, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, of Evansdale, attend the church, according to pastors.

http://thegazette.com/2012/07/17/vigil-for-missing-evansdale-girls-draws-hundreds/

BBM
Click to expand...

hmm... I had thought that the Collins attended the smaller "sister church," Countryside Vineyard in E'dale, but that public services for the girls were held at Heartland Vineyard in Cedar Falls due to it having more seating/parking. ??? IDK...

ETA: I believe there is a "vineyard church" branch in Wtrloo, also... perhaps that's the one Lyric attended? Again, IDK...
 
foxbluff said:
hmm... I had thought that the Collins attended the smaller "sister church," Countryside Vineyard in E'dale, but that public services for the girls were held at Heartland Vineyard in Cedar Falls due to it having more seating/parking. ??? IDK...

ETA: I believe there is a "vineyard church" branch in Wtrloo, also... perhaps that's the one Lyric attended? Again, IDK...
Click to expand...

I don't know - I just thought that at one time, at least, Lyric and Lizzie had attended the same church. I'm not sure where I read that. I'll see if I can find anything about that.

It's possible that Lyric may have visited the church with Lizzie and the Collins family, but didn't attend regularly. JMO.

ETA: HOLD THE PRESSES - I WAS WRONG. LOL

In the months since the girls vanished, Heartland and its sister church Countryside Vineyard in Evansdale where Lyric and her mother Misty Cook-Morrissey are members, have served as gathering spots for family and friends to pray and show support for one another.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/07/service-planned-elizabeth-collins/1753989/

Thanks, foxbluff, for making me do my homework and finding the correct info. ;)
 
threecrazykids said:
OMG...I'd never looked really closely at this picture, but I just realized something in seeing this.

Where the wreaths and flowers are placed at the site are NOT where the sheets are in this picture.

Remember the other area where I was showing you that was closer to the river bank where branches were clear cut off and you noticed it they were cut all the way up the tree? And the ground was all combed down to the dirt in a circular shape? THAT is where the one body was found...not where the wreaths were placed.

The memorial wreaths/flowers line up with the path, but these sheets don't form a straight line back to the path as I thought.

That's my error in assuming the placement of the wreaths/flowers represented where the bodies were found. :(

I can't be sure if the flowers are close to where the other body was found.

I gotta go back.
Click to expand...

bbm - For Cinder, 3cks, and any posters here who might make it to 7bridges before the "green tangles of summer" take over, please search carefully to see if there are two of these circular dirt spots and note "how they fall within" the general area. :please:
 
foxbluff said:
hmm... I had thought that the Collins attended the smaller "sister church," Countryside Vineyard in E'dale, but that public services for the girls were held at Heartland Vineyard in Cedar Falls due to it having more seating/parking. ??? IDK...

ETA: I believe there is a "vineyard church" branch in Wtrloo, also... perhaps that's the one Lyric attended? Again, IDK...
Click to expand...

Iirc, Heartland Vineyard IS the Collins' church. It is in MSM. Their pastor is quoted as saying so.
 
Marilynilpa said:
I don't know - I just thought that at one time, at least, Lyric and Lizzie had attended the same church. I'm not sure where I read that. I'll see if I can find anything about that.

It's possible that Lyric may have visited the church with Lizzie and the Collins family, but didn't attend regularly. JMO.

ETA: HOLD THE PRESSES - I WAS WRONG. LOL

In the months since the girls vanished, Heartland and its sister church Countryside Vineyard in Evansdale where Lyric and her mother Misty Cook-Morrissey are members, have served as gathering spots for family and friends to pray and show support for one another.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/07/service-planned-elizabeth-collins/1753989/

Thanks, foxbluff, for making me do my homework and finding the correct info. ;)
Click to expand...

Oh my goodness... actually I don't believe I had the correct answer either so please don't let your, imo, unfailing diplomacy over-ride the facts! :facepalm:

I, too, tried to "do my homework" before answering your original post on subj, but after an hour of googling failure, I gave up...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 162 more.
Total: 1,851 (members: 163, guests: 1,688)

Online statistics

Members online
163
Guests online
1,688
Total visitors
1,851
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
605,940
Messages
18,195,451
Members
233,659
Latest member
Mamabear2024
Back
Top