IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

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O/T, but then not really I guess because I believe there was discussion at one time about ice cream trucks. Irregardless, I find it interesting and wanted to share it:

http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/lo...cle_46bcdfb7-3c40-567d-9e71-6349839ea630.html



Employees operating ice cream trucks or other mobile businesses catering to kids and school employees will be subject to background checks.

* A new sex offender exclusion zone is created making it illegal for a sex offender to operate, manage, be employed by or act as a contractor or volunteer at a business that operates an ice cream truck.
 
Discrepancies in eyewitness testimony are quite common. Both witnesses may well be remembering to the best of their ability and both may be completely convinced they are correct.

I keep wondering if a discrepancy in eyewitness reports is the reason they haven't released a vehicle image.

Purely hypothetically, in the hypothetical case of the disappearance of Jenny Hypo-Thetical, say one witness reports seeing a dark SUV. Another witness at around the same time but down the street a way, reports seeing a black pick up truck with a customised black topper on the bed. A third witness reports seeing a midnight blue full sized van.

Every human being's individual expectations and experiences influence their memory of a given event. And the truth of the matter is that Jane Hypo-Thetical was actually grabbed by a perp driving a white four door sedan which blended in better with the surroundings than the black SUV that stood out like a sore thumb.

The SUV driver just remembers feeling impatient because this light coloured car was stopped in the middle of the street while the driver fiddled around with their cell phone. What really happened was that the driver was holding a stun gun that had just been used to subdue Jenny Hypo-Thetical. The SUV driver didn't see a stun gun because he was expecting to see yet another yahoo playing with their cellphone while driving; that expectation biased his recall.

None of the above happened in Lyric and Elizabeth's case but all of those things are from things that have been reported in other cases I've followed over the years.


When you have three witnesses reporting the same or similar vehicle description. I believe investigators should be able to come up with a consensus; VOI..

The investigators have held all info close to the vest since July 13, 2012 in L & L's abduction. Why would they deviate from their antiquated silence strategy now? The results are tragic, as we are witnessing, imo..

The recent NJ home invasion suspect wasn't identified for almost a week by investigators although he had a rap sheet of burgularies and home invasions in NJ a mile long.
Once the victim released the nannycam to ms media and it went viral on the internet. He was identified and captured in less than 24 hours, a state away.. When will they learn?
 
O/T, but then not really I guess because I believe there was discussion at one time about ice cream trucks. Irregardless, I find it interesting and wanted to share it:

http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/lo...cle_46bcdfb7-3c40-567d-9e71-6349839ea630.html



Employees operating ice cream trucks or other mobile businesses catering to kids and school employees will be subject to background checks.

* A new sex offender exclusion zone is created making it illegal for a sex offender to operate, manage, be employed by or act as a contractor or volunteer at a business that operates an ice cream truck.

Interesting NWLady...
My dad told us that if the ice cream truck was playing music. It meant that they had ran out of ice cream for the day...
 
I think the three witnesses described similar vehicles, but not so similar for a true description. If that makes sense.
 
Interesting NWLady...
My dad told us that if the ice cream truck was playing music. It meant that they had ran out of ice cream for the day...

That made me laugh....:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
When you have three witnesses reporting the same or similar vehicle description. I believe investigators should be able to come up with a consensus; VOI..

The investigators have held all info close to the vest since July 13, 2012 in L & L's abduction. Why would they deviate from their antiquated silence strategy now? The results are tragic, as we are witnessing, imo..

I agree with your comments, thoroughly. There was a confused inadequate
response right from the start - took hours to take the disappearance
seriously - no net was throw out (none!) - more than enough time for the
perp to slip away with the girls using some technique which evaded LE's
and the public's detection - if anyone was truly LOOKING?

I'm not going to single anyone out. It takes a village.

:twocents:
 
I hope I am not wrong, but I do have faith in the LE. I believe there are doing everything they can.

I believe that there is some type of method in this most recent plea to ask for the public's help in information regarding the white SUV. I don't think they now that there is a lull they have time to go through the tips ( could be I just refuse to believe that they are that incompetent to let people's tip sit and collect dust that long). I want to believe that everything they have done, they have done with calculation, and reason....:please:

As far as the first few hours, I think they reacted quickly! Heather first reported the girls missing at 2:47, and I remember seeing an article on the WCFCourier's website that they were getting volunteers to search. I also talked to an insider with LE, and the Evansdale PD didn't just blow it off right away as lost track of time playing , drowning, etc.
 
I agree with your comments, thoroughly. There was a confused inadequate
response right from the start
- took hours to take the disappearance
seriously - no net was throw out (none!) - more than enough time for the
perp to slip away with the girls using some technique which evaded LE's
and the public's detection - if anyone was truly LOOKING?

I'm not going to single anyone out. It takes a village.

:twocents:

No there wasn't.

Evansdale LE followed CARP perfectly!

I'm including the link to CARP. It is the only blueprint for investigating missing children, most of whom go missing for perfectly innocent(ish) reasons.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51536616/FBI-Child-Abduction-Response-Plan


Finding a missing child is literally like finding a needle in a haystack. They are very small and the world is very big.

Think of it this way - if you don't have kids - your dog has run away and you need help to find it.

Where do you start?

Remember, LE cannot find something that has been purposely hidden.

So where exactly do you expect them to look? In all the obvious places first, right?

Obvious places meaning Draining The Lake, in L&L's case.

Not only did they start draining, they also started searching - FBI, Evansdale, BHCSO, volunteers. They doorknocked and searched houses (at least the ones they were allowed into), they checked local RSOs, they searched ponds and woods and don't forget the 100 house sweep in October.

They have begged over and over for more information from the good folk of Evansdale, most of whom couldn't be bothered even attending a public meeting about it.

Like you said, it takes a village.

So who's to blame for not finding your dog if it's not there to be found, or no one is answering their door when you knock to ask? :banghead:

:cow:
 
No there wasn't.

Evansdale LE followed CARP perfectly!

I'm including the link to CARP. It is the only blueprint for investigating missing children, most of whom go missing for perfectly innocent(ish) reasons.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51536616/FBI-Child-Abduction-Response-Plan


Finding a missing child is literally like finding a needle in a haystack. They are very small and the world is very big.

Think of it this way - if you don't have kids - your dog has run away and you need help to find it.

Where do you start?

Remember, LE cannot find something that has been purposely hidden.

So where exactly do you expect them to look? In all the obvious places first, right?

Obvious places meaning Draining The Lake, in L&L's case.

Not only did they start draining, they also started searching - FBI, Evansdale, BHCSO, volunteers. They doorknocked and searched houses (at least the ones they were allowed into), they checked local RSOs, they searched ponds and woods and don't forget the 100 house sweep in October.

They have begged over and over for more information from the good folk of Evansdale, most of whom couldn't be bothered even attending a public meeting about it.

Like you said, it takes a village.

So who's to blame for not finding your dog if it's not there to be found, or no one is answering their door when you knock to ask? :banghead:
If I recall correctly, it took approximately four hours before LE began treating this case as a 'possible' abduction ... most of whom go missing for perfectly innocent-ordinary reasons.
Several things were flags imho.

Two of them. One kid lost and cant be found is one thing - two kids lost and cant be found in a reasonable amount of time should set off an alarm. Where are they going to go in this small town given their grandmother's admonition and the past history ... to Escanaba!?

Third, there is the particular history of one of the families involved.

Four, there were witnesses in every venue the girls had been in but either saw nothing unusual, heard nothing unusual, had neither seen or heard any evidence of a drowning or the girls in trouble, and yet the girls vanish! That points to some anomaly, something suspicious. Two girls dont just vanish in the presence of other people and nobody sees or hears anything!

Five, after four long hours in this small town the girls don;t appear on their own!

With all respect to CARP, officers have to use discretion and their instincts vs "the book" when making judgements. Several officers knew these girls and their families. Personal judgements sometimes go a long way in a case like this.
 
No there wasn't.

Evansdale LE followed CARP perfectly!

I'm including the link to CARP. It is the only blueprint for investigating missing children, most of whom go missing for perfectly innocent(ish) reasons.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51536616/FBI-Child-Abduction-Response-Plan


Finding a missing child is literally like finding a needle in a haystack. They are very small and the world is very big.

Think of it this way - if you don't have kids - your dog has run away and you need help to find it.

Where do you start?

Remember, LE cannot find something that has been purposely hidden.

So where exactly do you expect them to look? In all the obvious places first, right?

Obvious places meaning Draining The Lake, in L&L's case.

Not only did they start draining, they also started searching - FBI, Evansdale, BHCSO, volunteers. They doorknocked and searched houses (at least the ones they were allowed into), they checked local RSOs, they searched ponds and woods and don't forget the 100 house sweep in October.

They have begged over and over for more information from the good folk of Evansdale, most of whom couldn't be bothered even attending a public meeting about it.

Like you said, it takes a village.

So who's to blame for not finding your dog if it's not there to be found, or no one is answering their door when you knock to ask? :banghead:

:cow:

SapphireSteel, over 10 months later and a VOI of interest is released by investigators to the public to BOLO? What other critical information has been withheld from their most valuable investigative resource; the American public?

We live in the communications era. Two recent high profile cases were solved due to the public's awareness; the Boston Bombing and the New Jersey home invasion nannycam case. In both cases, the suspects were identified in less than 24 hours.. In both cases, the perps were recidivist and would have continued claiming victims...

Awareness is the key in missing/murdered person investigations..

______________________________

RE: So who's to blame for not finding your dog if it's not there to be found, or no one is answering their door when you knock to ask?

Where do you start?

http://helpmefindmypet.com/

helpmefindMYPET lost pet alerts are the most proactive way to recover lost and stolen pets 24 hours a day 7 days a week. When your pet is missing every second counts. People find pets, so notifying your community the moment your pet goes missing is very important. The moment your pet is lost or stolen an Alert is generated and sent to shelters, vets, pet businesses and members within a 25 mile radius of where your pet was last seen.

_______________________________________

Still scratching my head as to why the FBI thought L & L were still alive 8 days later...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-believes-missing-iowa-girls-alive/story?id=16827922#.UdLHePmG28A

EVANSDALE, Iowa, July 21, 2012
The FBI said they have evidence that leads them to believe that two missing Iowa girls are still alive.

"We believe the two girls are alive," FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault told ABC News. Breault said this belief was based partly on the evidence found Friday, but would not elaborate further.

Authorities reclassified the case as an abuduction on Friday.
 
SapphireSteel, over 10 months later and a VOI of interest is released by investigators to the public to BOLO? What other critical information has been withheld from their most valuable investigative resource; the American public?

We live in the communications era. Two recent high profile cases were solved due to the public's awareness; the Boston Bombing and the New Jersey home invasion nannycam case. In both cases, the suspects were identified in less than 24 hours.. In both cases, the perps were recidivist and would have continued claiming victims...

Awareness is the key in missing/murdered person investigations..

______________________________

RE: So who's to blame for not finding your dog if it's not there to be found, or no one is answering their door when you knock to ask?

Where do you start?

http://helpmefindmypet.com/

helpmefindMYPET lost pet alerts are the most proactive way to recover lost and stolen pets 24 hours a day 7 days a week. When your pet is missing every second counts. People find pets, so notifying your community the moment your pet goes missing is very important. The moment your pet is lost or stolen an Alert is generated and sent to shelters, vets, pet businesses and members within a 25 mile radius of where your pet was last seen.

_______________________________________

Still scratching my head as to why the FBI thought L & L were still alive 8 days later...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-believes-missing-iowa-girls-alive/story?id=16827922#.UdLHePmG28A

EVANSDALE, Iowa, July 21, 2012
The FBI said they have evidence that leads them to believe that two missing Iowa girls are still alive.

"We believe the two girls are alive," FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault told ABC News. Breault said this belief was based partly on the evidence found Friday, but would not elaborate further.

Authorities reclassified the case as an abuduction on Friday.

The Boston Bomber and the Nannycam guy were both caught on camera. There were no cameras at Meyers Lake. No one was standing about idly taking photos that day.

How do we know what information is "critical"? We are not privy to the details of the operation. We have absolutely no idea as to what direction the investigation is running.

Just because no arrests have been made YET, doesn't mean they "don't have a clue".

What's your opinion on the Daniel Morcombe case, who likewise was abducted in broad daylight down here in Australia?

There were plenty of witnesses and the perp was flagged only two weeks in.

It took 8 years to eliminate others who were also flagged.

It also took one tiny piece of information, which wasn't uncovered or recognised until an official inquest was held.

There had been an undercover operation also, in which the perp confessed to his "cell mate" - still no immediate arrest.

Not one person criticised Queensland police because the Australian public knew how devoted they were to solving this. They attended his funeral as friends of the family. They cried and grieved right along with the rest of us. It affected an entire country, very deeply.

Queensland Police had to be sure they had enough to convict. It took 8 long years, but they got their man.

The only people privy to the direction of the investigation was Daniel's family. They were told very general information only, the rest of us were told zero.

Why would they ask for The Public's information when they had a suspect already in their sights? It would be an utter waste of time and resources. Every single appeal for information generates hundreds and thousands of calls, false sightings, and accusations which take hours to wade through. If LE have a suspect/scenario already, those hours are pretty much wasted.

I personally believe L&L's case involves more than one perp. I don't think LE "don't have a clue", I think they have followed CARP and as a result they are running the investigation in one direction. They know what happened and who's involved and have done since the beginning, which explains the lack of any sort of BOLO.

Anyone who was here at the beginning suspects what that direction is, and that there is no wild eyed predator roaming Evansdale.

No arrest = not enough evidence. It does not necessarily equal "haven't got a clue".

:cow:
 
Re: Suspended DCI officer

Update: Review underway of speeding by governor's vehicle

The removal from duty of a prominent Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation agent came five days after he encouraged Iowa State Patrol troopers to pull over a speeding vehicle that, it turns out, contained Gov. Terry Branstad, records obtained by The Des Moines Register show.

A review of speeding by the governor’s vehicle is underway, according to a Department of Public Safety spokesman.

more

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/co...eview-underway-speeding-by-governor-s-vehicle
 
The Boston Bomber and the Nannycam guy were both caught on camera. There were no cameras at Meyers Lake. No one was standing about idly taking photos that day.

How do we know what information is "critical"? We are not privy to the details of the operation. We have absolutely no idea as to what direction the investigation is running.

Just because no arrests have been made YET, doesn't mean they "don't have a clue".

What's your opinion on the Daniel Morcombe case, who likewise was abducted in broad daylight down here in Australia?

There were plenty of witnesses and the perp was flagged only two weeks in.

It took 8 years to eliminate others who were also flagged.

It also took one tiny piece of information, which wasn't uncovered or recognised until an official inquest was held.

There had been an undercover operation also, in which the perp confessed to his "cell mate" - still no immediate arrest.

Not one person criticised Queensland police because the Australian public knew how devoted they were to solving this. They attended his funeral as friends of the family. They cried and grieved right along with the rest of us. It affected an entire country, very deeply.

Queensland Police had to be sure they had enough to convict. It took 8 long years, but they got their man.

The only people privy to the direction of the investigation was Daniel's family. They were told very general information only, the rest of us were told zero.

Why would they ask for The Public's information when they had a suspect already in their sights? It would be an utter waste of time and resources. Every single appeal for information generates hundreds and thousands of calls, false sightings, and accusations which take hours to wade through. If LE have a suspect/scenario already, those hours are pretty much wasted.

I personally believe L&L's case involves more than one perp. I don't think LE "don't have a clue", I think they have followed CARP and as a result they are running the investigation in one direction. They know what happened and who's involved and have done since the beginning, which explains the lack of any sort of BOLO.

Anyone who was here at the beginning suspects what that direction is, and that there is no wild eyed predator roaming Evansdale.

No arrest = not enough evidence. It does not necessarily equal "haven't got a clue".

:cow:

:truce: Well, with CARP, BOLO, MARP, MAP, GOLMAR, CODIS and CLUES in hand, ... it didn't intercept and prevent "the girls" from winding up at 7-Bridges. I am sure rumors and gossip and "clues" are rife in Evansdale and elsewhere.

I guess we can assume the girls did not do this to themselves!?

Maybe the girls would have been better off and safer, without the VILLAGE and all it's trappings! A village is, as a village does! (From the girl's point of view) ?

:seeya:
 
:truce: Well, with CARP, BOLO, MARP, MAP, GOLMAR, CODIS and CLUES in hand, ... it didn't intercept and prevent "the girls" from winding up at 7-Bridges. I am sure rumors and gossip and "clues" are rife in Evansdale and elsewhere.

I guess we can assume the girls did not do this to themselves!?

Maybe the girls would have been better off and safer, without the VILLAGE and all it's trappings! A village is, as a village does! (From the girl's point of view) ?

:seeya:

:goodpost:

The "village" of Evansdale has got some 'splainin to do........

8 People at the public meeting? Come on. No wonder LE are struggling with that level of interest/cooperation.

:banghead:
 
Re: Suspended DCI officer

Update: Review underway of speeding by governor's vehicle

The removal from duty of a prominent Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation agent came five days after he encouraged Iowa State Patrol troopers to pull over a speeding vehicle that, it turns out, contained Gov. Terry Branstad, records obtained by The Des Moines Register show.

A review of speeding by the governor’s vehicle is underway, according to a Department of Public Safety spokesman.

more

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/co...eview-underway-speeding-by-governor-s-vehicle

WOW. Just... WOW.

People outside of Iowa may not have heard of Gov. Terry Branstad's little family scandal. Back in the early 1990s, his son Eric Branstad was 16 and driving a minivan owned by the Branstad campaign organisation. He was speeding on a 2 lane highway and pulled out to pass a slower vehicle. Right in front of 2 oncoming cars.

One car missed him by swerving onto the shoulder. Eric Branstad's vehicle sideswiped a second car (the one he was passing) but the occupants were not injured.

The third car was not so lucky. Charles and Jean McCullough's car was hit head on by the vehicle Eric Branstad was driving. Jean McCullough was dead at the scene. Her husband, Charles McCullough, was driven by ambulance to the nearest hospital where he died.

Eric Branstad, the governor's son, had minor injuries, definitely not life threatening. Yet he is the person who was given a Life Flight helicopter flight from the scene of the accident to a top ranked trauma ER, rather than his much more seriously injured victim.

Curiously enough, no one at the hospital Eric Branstad was taken to thought to test him for blood alcohol content, even though that is part of the protocol for treating vehicle accident victims (the presence of alcohol in the system can profoundly affect medical decisions about treatment).

Eric Branstad was eventually charged with a misdemeanour traffic violation and fined $15. Yes, you read that right, fifteen dollars. Apparently one can get away with criminally reckless behaviour if one happens to be related to Terry Branstad.

A year later, Eric Branstad was involved in a series of alcohol related criminal charges, eventually pleading guilty to all of them. And yet we're supposed to believe that alcohol played no part in the accident that killed the McCulloughs?

The reason I label all this as specifically Terry Branstad's scandal is that at the time, Gov. Branstad was promoting a measure to restore the death penalty in Iowa, including for minors convicted of certain offences. Part of his "get tough on juvenile crime" campaign. Apparently it only applied to other men's sons, not his own.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana, The Life of Reason.
 
WOW. Just... WOW.

People outside of Iowa may not have heard of Gov. Terry Branstad's little family scandal. Back in the early 1990s, his son Eric Branstad was 16 and driving a minivan owned by the Branstad campaign organisation. He was speeding on a 2 lane highway and pulled out to pass a slower vehicle. Right in front of 2 oncoming cars.

One car missed him by swerving onto the shoulder. Eric Branstad's vehicle sideswiped a second car (the one he was passing) but the occupants were not injured.

The third car was not so lucky. Charles and Jean McCullough's car was hit head on by the vehicle Eric Branstad was driving. Jean McCullough was dead at the scene. Her husband, Charles McCullough, was driven by ambulance to the nearest hospital where he died.

Eric Branstad, the governor's son, had minor injuries, definitely not life threatening. Yet he is the person who was given a Life Flight helicopter flight from the scene of the accident to a top ranked trauma ER, rather than his much more seriously injured victim.

Curiously enough, no one at the hospital Eric Branstad was taken to thought to test him for blood alcohol content, even though that is part of the protocol for treating vehicle accident victims (the presence of alcohol in the system can profoundly affect medical decisions about treatment).

Eric Branstad was eventually charged with a misdemeanour traffic violation and fined $15. Yes, you read that right, fifteen dollars. Apparently one can get away with criminally reckless behaviour if one happens to be related to Terry Branstad.

A year later, Eric Branstad was involved in a series of alcohol related criminal charges, eventually pleading guilty to all of them. And yet we're supposed to believe that alcohol played no part in the accident that killed the McCulloughs?

The reason I label all this as specifically Terry Branstad's scandal is that at the time, Gov. Branstad was promoting a measure to restore the death penalty in Iowa, including for minors convicted of certain offences. Part of his "get tough on juvenile crime" campaign. Apparently it only applied to other men's sons, not his own.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana, The Life of Reason.

Thanks for sharing, what a horrible story. :(

Sad and almost incomprehensible that the DP could be a political platform at all in this century.

A politician with this guy's level of integrity (and intelligence) is campaigning for the right to legally murder citizens, and apparently he's getting votes.

What's going on in Iowa?
 
I hope I am not wrong, but I do have faith in the LE. I believe there are doing everything they can.

I believe that there is some type of method in this most recent plea to ask for the public's help in information regarding the white SUV. I don't think they now that there is a lull they have time to go through the tips ( could be I just refuse to believe that they are that incompetent to let people's tip sit and collect dust that long). I want to believe that everything they have done, they have done with calculation, and reason....:please:

As far as the first few hours, I think they reacted quickly! Heather first reported the girls missing at 2:47, and I remember seeing an article on the WCFCourier's website that they were getting volunteers to search. I also talked to an insider with LE, and the Evansdale PD didn't just blow it off right away as lost track of time playing , drowning, etc.

I completely agree.

It seems obvious to me that the information about the white vehicle was released now because it is a year later and people's memories will naturally associate with what happened last year at the same time. Furthermore, if someone with a white vehicle is normally in Evansdale only in July, then now is the perfect time to publish the information about the white vehicle.

I'm inclined to think that investigators make calculated decisions. That is, releasing new information on the anniversary of a murder investigation is always a calculated decision. Releasing the info in December would have made no difference to the investigation, but today it may just trigger the right memory.

I'm always a bit stunned to learn that some people actually believe that investigators are bumbling fools that spontaneously make random decisions.
 
The Boston Bomber and the Nannycam guy were both caught on camera. There were no cameras at Meyers Lake. No one was standing about idly taking photos that day.

How do we know what information is "critical"? We are not privy to the details of the operation. We have absolutely no idea as to what direction the investigation is running.

Just because no arrests have been made YET, doesn't mean they "don't have a clue".

What's your opinion on the Daniel Morcombe case, who likewise was abducted in broad daylight down here in Australia?

There were plenty of witnesses and the perp was flagged only two weeks in.

It took 8 years to eliminate others who were also flagged.

It also took one tiny piece of information, which wasn't uncovered or recognised until an official inquest was held.

There had been an undercover operation also, in which the perp confessed to his "cell mate" - still no immediate arrest.

Not one person criticised Queensland police because the Australian public knew how devoted they were to solving this. They attended his funeral as friends of the family. They cried and grieved right along with the rest of us. It affected an entire country, very deeply.

Queensland Police had to be sure they had enough to convict. It took 8 long years, but they got their man.

The only people privy to the direction of the investigation was Daniel's family. They were told very general information only, the rest of us were told zero.

Why would they ask for The Public's information when they had a suspect already in their sights? It would be an utter waste of time and resources. Every single appeal for information generates hundreds and thousands of calls, false sightings, and accusations which take hours to wade through. If LE have a suspect/scenario already, those hours are pretty much wasted.

I personally believe L&L's case involves more than one perp. I don't think LE "don't have a clue", I think they have followed CARP and as a result they are running the investigation in one direction. They know what happened and who's involved and have done since the beginning, which explains the lack of any sort of BOLO.

Anyone who was here at the beginning suspects what that direction is, and that there is no wild eyed predator roaming Evansdale.

No arrest = not enough evidence. It does not necessarily equal "haven't got a clue".

:cow:

Wow. Very, very well put! I could not agree more!! It HAS been almost a year, but I personally don't believe that is a bad thing. Frustrating, sure. But it's not about us. If they didn't have a clue, they'd be asking for clues every other day.
 
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