IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #33

[SpringThyme]

Prosecutors believe she was trying to implicate her ex-husband in a murder-for-hire scheme. Dustin Wehde was a troubled 20 year old whose family attended the same church her family did that her husband had offered to mentor. They think she may have had a sexual relationship with Dustin but in any case, she did know him well and he was in and out of her home for about a year prior to the fake home invasion.

Prosecutors think that she dictated the 6 page note to Dustin and that the plan was for him to pretend to be a robber and she would stage an attempted strangling. She did have marks on her neck from the panty hose she claimed to have been strangled with but they looked more like the sort of marks you'd get by wrapping the legs around your own neck then sawing them back and forth a few times. More like friction marks than pressure marks.

Roberts was in a bitter custody dispute with her ex-husband over their son (the 11 year old). When the boy was 3 years old she alleged in family court that he came home from a visitation with his father with signs of sexual molestation, which was eventually ruled unfounded. Prosecutors think she wanted to go into family court and use an investigation into him as a suspect into a murder-for-hire plot to get the court to deny his father's visitation rights. Her second husband had called the ex and told him that he had "deep pockets" and was going to fund the custody fight in court until the ex gave up visitation.

Now, I don't know about you but if I believed my hypothetical child had been sexually molested by my hypothetical ex-husband, there is NO WAY I would ever voluntarily give that ex custody of my son. And yet that is exactly what Roberts did a couple years after the staged home invasion (this was long before she was suspected of homicide in Dustin's killing).

Prosecutors think that Roberts' plan all along was to get Wehde to conspire with her in this fake home invasion and to kill him so that he could not betray her if he changed his mind about conspiring with her.

Not so coincidentally, both her ex and her second husband said that Roberts had a history of domestic violence against them and had (on different occasions) threatened them with a hand gun. The first husband divorced her after an incident where she fired a bullet into the ceiling over his head.

Her second husband also divorced her and said it was because he feared for his life at her hands.

She was engaged when she was arrested for Dustin Wehde's killing. I think that guy was lucky, lucky, lucky.

Wow. What a piece of work.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Yes, that's right. One of the solid pieces of evidence was the collect call. But, they couldn't pinpoint exactly where it was made. He still had plenty of time to drive to Sycamore and back and make the call, IF the timeline was pushed back.

And I agree about the similarities with Elizabeth and Lyrics case. Very eerie....

The photo lineup, yes, should have been done like you said. To place them all together seems to imply that ONE of them is the one she should pick.

I'm actually quite surprised that he was convicted if murder. There was no evidence that he did it, just that he was capable and if you moved the timeline back, he had no alibi for that timeframe. No physical evidence. Even his "confessions" didn't match the cause of death.

The similarities in timeline difficulties in both cases are really striking.

They do know that the collect call was placed from Rockford. The statement that Maria's mother made the evening that she disappeared (when her memory was freshest) said that Maria came in to get her doll at 6:40 pm that evening. No matter where in Rockford that collect call was placed, there is no way it could have been by someone who had started driving from Sycamore at 6:40 pm.

I think Maria's case goes to show that innocent people can have massive confusion about exact times. And do things that were pointed out as odd in some of the posts here on WS, such as driving to the police station to report the missing.

Truth is stranger than fiction. The reason for that is that if fiction gets too unlikely, readers will reject it but reality has no such limits.

Still, seeing the similarities in the two cases is really haunting.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I have watched that show many times. The narrator's soothing voice had lulled me to sleep more than once. I haven't seen that particular episode, though.

Interesting when you mention the witnesses taking amongst themselves. Makes you wonder, in E & Ls case, how many stories changed during the investigation, when people compared notes?? Take for example, Mr. C, the Lawn Watering Guy, changing his timeline of seeing the girls, after talking to his wife...

Exactly.

I have no doubt that those conversations were innocent in intent and probably necessary for emotional processing of the event. But it must be so frustrating for investigators to see their witnesses contaminating each other's memories like that. Which would be the reason why LE usually requests that witnesses not talk to anyone else about what they have seen.

Once a memory has been contaminated, the person does not realise it has been contaminated. It is accepted as their own memory. Otherwise the person remembers it as a disagreement in recall and it isn't contaminated.

Sorting out which is which can be difficult to impossible.

 

[Bootsctr]

I have watched that show many times. The narrator's soothing voice had lulled me to sleep more than once. I haven't seen that particular episode, though.

Interesting when you mention the witnesses taking amongst themselves. Makes you wonder, in E & Ls case, how many stories changed during the investigation, when people compared notes?? Take for example, Mr. C, the Lawn Watering Guy, changing his timeline of seeing the girls, after talking to his wife...

I just recently discovered The First 48. It is an excellent show for those interested in learning how LE goes about investigating murders. There is now After the First 48 which gives updates on previous The First 48 that were not solved. Fascinating look at how investigators work and their mindset. So glad you are feeling up to spinning yarn too Grainne Dhu! Your posts are most informative and thought-provoking. I appreciate your comments regarding Evelyn Miller and her killer, Frederickson. Much food for thought in your posts. :fence:

 

[24Roses]

I just recently discovered The First 48. It is an excellent show for those interested in learning how LE goes about investigating murders. There is now After the First 48 which gives updates on previous The First 48 that were not solved. Fascinating look at how investigators work and their mindset. So glad you are feeling up to spinning yarn too Grainne Dhu! Your posts are most informative and thought-provoking. I appreciate your comments regarding Evelyn Miller and her killer, Frederickson. Much food for thought in your posts. :fence:

I also watch The First 48 and After the First 48. If anyone is interested, there are new episodes on Thursday nights at 8:00 central time on A & E.

 

[Foxfire]

I have watched that show many times. The narrator's soothing voice had lulled me to sleep more than once. I haven't seen that particular episode, though.

Interesting when you mention the witnesses taking amongst themselves. Makes you wonder, in E & Ls case, how many stories changed during the investigation, when people compared notes?? Take for example, Mr. C, the Lawn Watering Guy, changing his timeline of seeing the girls, after talking to his wife...

Squeeze, I know what ya mean about the narrator's soothing voice lulling you to sleep.. I'd have to take my shoes off to count how many times I've nodded off. The First 48 airs on the A&E channel & focuses mainly on high crime urban areas..

The First 48, which is in its 13th season, was named due to the premise that if a homicide investigation is not solved within the first 48 hours. The probability of it being solved is cut in half..

Was watching the First 48 a couple of days ago. One of the very seasoned Homicide Detectives made the statement that the first 24 Hours is the most critical in abduction investigations.

List of The First 48 episodes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of The First 48 episodes

 

[Foxfire]

But in Hannah's case, they knew who she was with. They knew what car he was driving. It's not comparable to an unsolved murder case.

eileenhawkeye, in Samantha Koenig's(AK) murder case, investigators/LE/FBI also knew the suspect's name; serial killer Israel Keyes, and his vehicle description, yet refused to provide the info to the public via ms media.
Keys was arrested over six weeks later in Texas during a very lucky routine traffic stop. If the info had been shared, the public would have aided in accomplishing his arrest much sooner, imo....

Nine months after his arrest, on Dec 01/2012, SK Israel Keyes was allowed to take his own life while his cell was being monitored on camera, and with 30 minute welfare checks by correction officers. Investigators/FBI are now releasing investigative info to the public for assistance in identifying his many unknown victims; estimated to be 11+.
As did MJ Klunder, Israel Keyes prevented justice from being served...All previous charges were dropped against Israel Keyes...


http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-anchorage-barista-man-arrested-texas/story?id=15933954

<sniped - read more>
A man has been arrested in Texas in connection with the disappearance of 18-year-old barista Samantha Koenig, who was abducted by an armed man from an espresso stand in Anchorage, Alaska, over six weeks ago.

Keyes' arrest warrant remains sealed and police are offering few details. Police spokeswoman Anita Shell said that the warrant will remain sealed so as not to compromise the case.

 

[sreshowtime]

rest assured LE is still working on this case-
I don't want to go all into it , but I did turn in something I found 'odd' in recent Iowa news regarding some arrest related to kidnapping/juvenile sexual abuse...suffice it to say Chief Smock indicated back to me that they were already/ or had looked into a connection

So yes they ARE working the case

 

[Squeeze]

Squeeze, I know what ya mean about the narrator's soothing voice lulling you to sleep.. I'd have to take my shoes off to count how many times I've nodded off. The First 48 airs on the A&E channel & focuses mainly on high crime urban areas..

The First 48, which is in its 13th season, was named due to the premise that if a homicide investigation is not solved within the first 48 hours. The probability of it being solved is cut in half..

Was watching the First 48 a couple of days ago. One of the very seasoned Homicide Detectives made the statement that the first 24 Hours is the most critical in abduction investigations.

List of The First 48 episodes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of The First 48 episodes

Its not very often that I make it to the end of the show!!

 

[cindersoot]

Good morning. Still waiting for some word from LE .

 

[cindersoot]

rest assured LE is still working on this case-
I don't want to go all into it , but I did turn in something I found 'odd' in recent Iowa news regarding some arrest related to kidnapping/juvenile sexual abuse...suffice it to say Chief Smock indicated back to me that they were already/ or had looked into a connection

So yes they ARE working the case

I wish you could clarify.

 

[24Roses]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/23165076/2013/08/18/angels-among-us-poker-run-honors-kidnapped-girls I think Rodger Day participated in this yesterday. It was good to hear that Kathlynn Shepard's parent were at this, too.

 

[Bootsctr]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/23165076/2013/08/18/angels-among-us-poker-run-honors-kidnapped-girls I think Rodger Day participated in this yesterday. It was good to hear that Kathlynn Shepard's parent were at this, too.

Thanks for sharing. Interesting to note the reporter ended by saying as we know Lyric and Elizabeth's killer is still out there somewhere. :stormingmad:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thanks for sharing. Interesting to note the reporter ended by saying as we know Lyric and Elizabeth's killer is still out there somewhere. :stormingmad:

Maybe, maybe not.

I think there's an excellent chance he's already been incarcerated for something else.

It's over a year now and no more "abductions"...

*Apart from Klunder that is, which doesn't seem related, the reporter seems to be confirming that the girls killer is still unknown.

:twocents:

 

[Bootsctr]

Maybe, maybe not.

I think there's an excellent chance he's already been incarcerated for something else.

It's over a year now and no more "abductions"...

*Apart from Klunder that is, which doesn't seem related, the reporter seems to be confirming that the girls killer is still unknown.

:twocents:

Oh absolutely! I agree the POI could be behind bars, but I do find it curious that as of 06/24/2013, LE is interested in speaking to the person who was parked on or near the lake along Arbutus St. on July 13 in a white older model full-size SUV type vehicle (Chevy Suburban, Ford Bronco or similar). Or, speaking with anyone who may have been or frequented Meyers Lake in a vehicle similar to that described. Maybe this person is someone who will help connect the dots that will lead to a conviction?

 

[Bootsctr]

I know this is a far stretch...but I did find it quite odd when just perusing threads I noticed that an "older white boxy" vehicle was apparently used in the abduction of Alexis Murphy as well.

ACTIVE SEARCH VA - Alexis Murphy, 17, Shipman, 3 Aug 2013 - **ARREST** - #3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Granted, there appears to be camo or something of the sort down the sides of this vehicle (which I would think have been noted if that were the case with the vehicle mentioned by LE with E&L's case)...but still a strange coincidence nonetheless.

I checked out the Alexis Murphy thread with the pic of the "older white boxy" vehicle. It definitely gave me cold chills. This is very similar to the description of what LE is looking for in L&L's case. ((((((shudder))))))))

 

[SapphireSteel]

So they know the vehicle they're looking for, they just can't find it.

I have long believed whoever committed this crime thought themselves a "criminal mastermind". He thinks he committed "the perfect crime". :sick:

Putting myself in his shoes I believe he would intentionally choose this anonymous type vehicle because it is known to be the vehicle of choice for abductors in the new millennium, per FBI stats. There's so many of them on the roads, they are ubiquitous, lots of people own one, lots of businesses too. It can be easily stolen from any large car park and no one would look twice if you made sure to put on mechanics overalls while you were doing so.

If my suspicions are correct, he stole or borrowed the vehicle and it is either stored somewhere, or lying at the bottom of a dam 3 counties over.

If it's stored, it may be in a shed somewhere, or out the back of someone's farm under a tarp. I believe this perp is too careful to wreck the car because that would leave a paper trail, so it is likely to be hidden somewhere, complete with DNA of the girls, or dismantled even.

If hidden, where can he hide it? Somewhere he lives/lived is too risky, I'm thinking friends or family or accomplices are hiding it for him. Or lent it, in the first place.

Or, maybe he just drove it into the nearest dam. Have they searched other large bodies of water yet? It would seem reasonable to do so? But expensive I guess. :dunno:

Someone local needs to remember seeing a vehicle like that being driven by someone local who didn't normally drive a car like that, IYKWIM. :twocents:

 

[threecrazykids]

rest assured LE is still working on this case-
I don't want to go all into it , but I did turn in something I found 'odd' in recent Iowa news regarding some arrest related to kidnapping/juvenile sexual abuse...suffice it to say Chief Smock indicated back to me that they were already/ or had looked into a connection

So yes they ARE working the case

I saw this one and wondered if there was a connection with the girls...

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ma...cle_3de86c37-dc5d-5fd6-8069-b3c188dfeb9a.html

However, what baffles me is that they are continuing to look into connections with every case of kidnapping/sexual abuse...so are we to assume that there WAS evidence of some sort of sexual abuse? Or is that just very likely?

The fact that they are digging into possible connections with what sounds like several cases in the area makes me think they may have lots of random pieces of "evidence" but they still have zero solid leads. It just feels to me like they may have several people "working" the case, but that it's just a matter of handing out a potential lead and getting someone to try and run with it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The bodies may have been in such a condition that they don't know what happened to them.

:twocents:

 

[Bootsctr]

I saw this one and wondered if there was a connection with the girls...

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ma...cle_3de86c37-dc5d-5fd6-8069-b3c188dfeb9a.html

However, what baffles me is that they are continuing to look into connections with every case of kidnapping/sexual abuse...so are we to assume that there WAS evidence of some sort of sexual abuse? Or is that just very likely?

The fact that they are digging into possible connections with what sounds like several cases in the area makes me think they may have lots of random pieces of "evidence" but they still have zero solid leads. It just feels to me like they may have several people "working" the case, but that it's just a matter of handing out a potential lead and getting someone to try and run with it.

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit when I read the article and saw the picture. I've always felt the girls could have been lured with a puppy or kitten or to help an older person who might seem harmless and handicapped. uke: This is one sick :snake: :curses: After reading this and seeing the dates, I almost want to say there is some kind of child *advertiser censored* ring and there was definitely more than one person involved in what happened to Lyric and Elizabeth.