IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[JaimeInLA]

Perhaps I'm not recalling correctly, but I thought it was Tammy that made that comment about Dan. I don't think he ever said that anywhere did he? MOO

Tammy was the person who told us the reason, yes. But multiple media outlets reported that's what did happen. It is public record that he was set to take a plea that would knock 85 years off his sentence, and backed out. The significance of that act, combined with the incredible timing of it can't possibly be a coincidence in my opinion.

To me, it is very clear that Dan either needed to be out of jail to protect his family (which seems unlikely, since he was napping), or to do something nefarious for who knows what reason. Including Elizabeth and doing it in her neighborhood seems like the perfect cover to me. Just unusual enough to throw people off his scent.

 

[Sunlight]

"The girls' aunt, Tammy Brousseau, said Morrissey backed out of a plea agreement in the cases earlier this month because he did not want to be jailed immediately, which it required. She said she believed he would ultimately accept a plea bargain rather than take his chances at trials to reduce the potential prison term he faces.

"If I was in Dan's position, I couldn't imagine being put behind bars during a time like this," she said. "My heart just sinks."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/dad-one-missing-iowa-cousins-faces-trial-during-search/

ETA: I posted this, because it was not "Dan" who said it, not because of what the meaning of accepting the plea deal or not, meant. JMO

 

[Sunlight]

It most certainly is true that for some reason, he did not want to go to jail at that time but knew he was going to have to go eventually. It is hard to imagine either father killing their daughter and niece, but you never know. There are many possibilities of what caused the death of Lyric and Elizabeth, which has still not been officially ruled a homicide, only treated as such. MOO

 

[Foxfire]

It most certainly is true that for some reason, he did not want to go to jail at that time but knew he was going to have to go eventually. It is hard to imagine either father killing their daughter and niece, but you never know. There are many possibilities of what caused the death of Lyric and Elizabeth, which has still not been officially ruled a homicide, only treated as such. MOO

“As we approach the one-year anniversary of the abduction and murder of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, we grieve with the families and our community over the tragic loss of these two girls,” said Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock, in a prepared statement.

- See more at: http://thegazette.com/2013/07/11/ev...ery-active-a-year-later/#sthash.j6UahuWR.dpuf

 

[CHERIE.T]

Still no arrest? I'm bummed. RIP Elizabeth and Lyric.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I know many of you disagree, this case still "smells" to me like a stranger abduction perpetrated by a sexual predator to me.

I agree with you.

I also think there is a chance that the perp may be a lot younger than most people think. Even as young as 14 to 16. Yeah, I know a kid that age can't have a driver's license in Iowa but a lot of farm kids learn how to drive on the farm as soon as they are tall enough to reach the pedals and see through the windshield at the same time. If he were a 14 year old who had his growth spurt early, he could easily look to be 16 or 17 years old, which is old enough for an intermediate license (can drive without supervision from 5 am to 12:30 am; must have supervision between 12:30 am and 5 am).

I think there are very few people thinking in terms of "do I know any teens that have access to a white SUV or van type vehicle?"

A kid that age is old enough to spend a summer day on his own while his parents are at work.

 

[nikb]

I agree with you.

I also think there is a chance that the perp may be a lot younger than most people think. Even as young as 14 to 16. Yeah, I know a kid that age can't have a driver's license in Iowa but a lot of farm kids learn how to drive on the farm as soon as they are tall enough to reach the pedals and see through the windshield at the same time. If he were a 14 year old who had his growth spurt early, he could easily look to be 16 or 17 years old, which is old enough for an intermediate license (can drive without supervision from 5 am to 12:30 am; must have supervision between 12:30 am and 5 am).

I think there are very few people thinking in terms of "do I know any teens that have access to a white SUV or van type vehicle?"

A kid that age is old enough to spend a summer day on his own while his parents are at work.

BBM as far as we know Dan didn't have a license either, so.. not sure I put much weight on that. I wonder if others do though. I'm not discounting your theory at all, just discounting people fully following the law when it comes to driving. Totally agree a kid that age could/would likely be practically on his own most of the day.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

BBM as far as we know Dan didn't have a license either, so.. not sure I put much weight on that. I wonder if others do though. I'm not discounting your theory at all, just discounting people fully following the law when it comes to driving. Totally agree a kid that age could/would likely be practically on his own most of the day.

My thoughts about driving weren't really about whether it would be legal but whether a driver would be likely to be pulled over for a license check. If he looked too young to hold an intermediate license (16-18 years old), he'd be running a high risk of being pulled over. So I'm thinking that if the perp was a relatively young teen, he must have looked old enough to drive legally without supervision.

If you see what I mean.

Twelve to 15 years olds can vary so much in appearance. I've seen 12 year olds that looked like they were 18 and I've seen 15 year olds who looked like they were 11. If the perp is really young, then part of how he pulled it off would be in looking like he was at least old enough to hold an intermediate license (16-18 years old).

I think 14 years old would likely be a bit too young but there is speculation that Ted Bundy abducted and killed his first victim when he was 14. I can see a 16 year old pulling off Lyric and Elizabeth's abduction. Old enough to not be under continual supervision, young enough not to be readily suspected.

If I am right, then it is possible that the perp's primary interest was sexual and he did not set out with the intention of killing either girl. At that age, most people aren't good at predicting the likely consequences of their actions. He may have wanted to sexually molest or rape them and once he had done that, then he was faced with the next step even though he hadn't really thought that far. In order to conceal his actions, he had to kill the witnesses.

I feel like I'm not being particularly coherent right now. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around "what if it was a young teen...?"

 

[Sere-nity]

.

I feel like I'm not being particularly coherent right now. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around "what if it was a young teen...?"

What if it was a young teen who has a history but was given a second chance and his record was sealed. What if he couldn't fight his urges but knew what would happen if he got caught again. Maybe he has an auxiliary connection to the girls, just enough for them to think he is a cool older boy who is nice and pays attention to them.

 

[Foxfire]

I agree with you.

I also think there is a chance that the perp may be a lot younger than most people think. Even as young as 14 to 16. Yeah, I know a kid that age can't have a driver's license in Iowa but a lot of farm kids learn how to drive on the farm as soon as they are tall enough to reach the pedals and see through the windshield at the same time. If he were a 14 year old who had his growth spurt early, he could easily look to be 16 or 17 years old, which is old enough for an intermediate license (can drive without supervision from 5 am to 12:30 am; must have supervision between 12:30 am and 5 am).

I think there are very few people thinking in terms of "do I know any teens that have access to a white SUV or van type vehicle?"

A kid that age is old enough to spend a summer day on his own while his parents are at work.

Grainne Dhu, I guess anything is possible, but I feel that the new info learned that MJK's father lived only a few miles up the road past where E & L's bodies were located, combined with the info of his stepbrother living in Waterloo, IA, is very concerning. http://hosting-24339.tributes.com/show/Jimmy-Dwain-Klunder-96325776

Google Map link:
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...A_uhzF5uZgCTrdOjg&oq=ellsworth&mra=ls&t=m&z=9

The abduction of pairs of girls are so rare that there are no available statistics that I can locate...
When MJK enticed KS & DH to enter his pu truck near a rural Iowa school bus stop, it was at least his third known kidnapping in a long violent sexual assault history. If not for his twenty year prison incarceration, MJK's victim total would have been immense..imo

Although the 6 feet 6 inches, 242 pound RSO MJK would have been 42 years old at the time of E & L's abduction/murders. 21% of child abductions are by strangers over the age of 29. While 79% of these kidnappings are carried out by strangers, only 21% are by acquaintances.

Read more: http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...20236910/-/3c05omz/-/index.html#ixzz2fpBtGlTr

Non-Family child abductions
75% of the abductors are male.
67% of them are below 29 years of age.
http://ygoy.com/2009/07/08/child-abduction-statistics/

According to the Justice Department, the average time served by men released from state prisons for rape is 5 1⁄2 years. For molesting a child, it is only 4 years; for murder, it is just 8 years. Every year, 14,000 murders, rapes and sexual assaults are committed by violent, repeat murderers and sex offenders.
http://www.operationlookout.org/Loo...to-stop-early-release-of-hard-core-criminals/

 

[janie]

Misty said that she and Lyric went swimming at George Wyth lake for the five weeks that swimming season was open before she got her job at Casey's. It was after Misty got her job that Lyric was accompanying Wylma to the Collins house.

IIRC, I think she had only started that job the week before.

Yes, Misty said she and Lyric went swimming at Byrnes Park and George Wyth lake for the five weeks before she got her job at Caseys. That doesn't mean that they didn't go swimming in the afternoons instead of the mornings. I can envision Wylma letting Misty sleep in and taking Lyric with her to the Collin's house in the mornings. I think the comment in this link validates that possibility.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20622109,00.html

"On July 13, cousins Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, decided, as they often do, to go for a bike ride together. This being a hot morning in Evansdale, Iowa, they poured two cold glasses of V8 Splash and set them on the kitchen counter in Elizabeth's house, at the ready for when they worked up a sweat. At 11:30 they took off, well aware that while many other kids are permitted to zip around the 4-sq.-mi. town on bikes, their family expects them to stick close to home."

 

[Grainne Dhu]

What if it was a young teen who has a history but was given a second chance and his record was sealed. What if he couldn't fight his urges but knew what would happen if he got caught again. Maybe he has an auxiliary connection to the girls, just enough for them to think he is a cool older boy who is nice and pays attention to them.

Interesting possibility.

In Iowa, juvenile records cannot be sealed until that person has passed their 18th birthday. So his record would still be searchable.

Then again, how often does it occur to adults to search for criminal records on teens who seem reasonably civilised?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Another possibility has occurred to me: what if it were two teenagers who are the perps?

As a general rule, the more people who are in on a secret, the greater the chance the secret will be revealed. But if it concerned something so serious as murder... I don't know.

Somewhere in the dim recesses of my memory is a case where a 16 year old boy was found in a river, beaten and drowned. His case went cold for something like 20 years, until one of the perps contacted the victim's mother to confess.

Sometimes two people will do something together that neither of them would consider separately.

 

[Indy Anna]

Yes, Misty said she and Lyric went swimming at Byrnes Park and George Wyth lake for the five weeks before she got her job at Caseys. That doesn't mean that they didn't go swimming in the afternoons instead of the mornings. I can envision Wylma letting Misty sleep in and taking Lyric with her to the Collin's house in the mornings. I think the comment in this link validates that possibility.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20622109,00.html

"On July 13, cousins Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, decided, as they often do, to go for a bike ride together. This being a hot morning in Evansdale, Iowa, they poured two cold glasses of V8 Splash and set them on the kitchen counter in Elizabeth's house, at the ready for when they worked up a sweat. At 11:30 they took off, well aware that while many other kids are permitted to zip around the 4-sq.-mi. town on bikes, their family expects them to stick close to home."

BBM
Thank you for that quote, Janie. The part that I bolded really caught my attention. I'm unsure whether I believe the girls were abducted by someone they knew or a stranger, whether related to Dan's drug activity or not. There's info to support each perspective, but I know from personal experience how striking coincidences can often turn out to be just that ..... mere coincidences.

The fact that other kids were allowed to ride their bikes anywhere around town but that it was E & L - who were restricted to a route near home - who were victimized by a kidnapper seems to suggest they were specifically targeted. Another coincidence, maybe?

Were there in fact other children in Evansdale outside playing and riding their bikes during the time frame the girls disappeared? Why did E & L wander so far from home that day? I hope all of the parents in Evansdale have questioned there children about whether they were playing with/saw the girls the day they went missing, and if they saw anyone else with the girls. And I stress anyone! Since E & L apparently deemed their abductor trustworthy, the other children probably did, too, and wouldn't have thought it was noteworthy to report.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Indy Anna]

Another possibility has occurred to me: what if it were two teenagers who are the perps?

As a general rule, the more people who are in on a secret, the greater the chance the secret will be revealed. But if it concerned something so serious as murder... I don't know.

Somewhere in the dim recesses of my memory is a case where a 16 year old boy was found in a river, beaten and drowned. His case went cold for something like 20 years, until one of the perps contacted the victim's mother to confess.

Sometimes two people will do something together that neither of them would consider separately.

Since dual kidnappings are rare, and E & L were not tiny tots who could be carried away but were self-directed and needed to be lured away, I think if their killer is a juvenile that more than one would likely be involved. It seems too sophisticated a crime for juveniles but my mind goes to the murder of 16-y-o Skylar Neese in WV. She was lured from her home by her 2 best friends (also ~ 16-y-o), driven to a secluded area and stabbed to death. The crime may have gone unsolved except that one of the perps had a mental breakdown and confessed. The other is still proclaiming her innocence and shows no sign of remorse. That crime could potentially have gone unsolved indefinitely without the one confession. A couple of cold-blooded teenage boys would certainly have the capacity to pull off something like this.

ETA: I also want to point out that Skylar's killers drove out of state to commit the crime. So, it wouldn't be beyond reason that a couple of teenagers had driven E & L out of town to assault and kill them.

 

[janie]

Another possibility has occurred to me: what if it were two teenagers who are the perps?

As a general rule, the more people who are in on a secret, the greater the chance the secret will be revealed. But if it concerned something so serious as murder... I don't know.

Somewhere in the dim recesses of my memory is a case where a 16 year old boy was found in a river, beaten and drowned. His case went cold for something like 20 years, until one of the perps contacted the victim's mother to confess.

Sometimes two people will do something together that neither of them would consider separately.

There is the 21 yr old in the Evansdale trailer court who molested a 12 yr old girl who got off on probation but is a RSO now. I remember his FB page saying he was a cousin of one of the girls.

http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/IA130107026/Jesse-James-Bowser.html

 

[kai]

What if it was a young teen who has a history but was given a second chance and his record was sealed. What if he couldn't fight his urges but knew what would happen if he got caught again. Maybe he has an auxiliary connection to the girls, just enough for them to think he is a cool older boy who is nice and pays attention to them.

Or a young adult over the age of 18 who was convicted as a sex offender as a minor, yet his records were sealed due to his offenses being done as a juvenile. He wouldn't even be on the radar of local authorities due to the laws in Iowa.

JMO.

Wish that LE would solve this crime soon. So sad for Lyric & Elizabeth.

 

[EchoinEdale]

BBM
Thank you for that quote, Janie. The part that I bolded really caught my attention. I'm unsure whether I believe the girls were abducted by someone they knew or a stranger, whether related to Dan's drug activity or not. There's info to support each perspective, but I know from personal experience how striking coincidences can often turn out to be just that ..... mere coincidences.

The fact that other kids were allowed to ride their bikes anywhere around town but that it was E & L - who were restricted to a route near home - who were victimized by a kidnapper seems to suggest they were specifically targeted. Another coincidence, maybe?

Were there in fact other children in Evansdale outside playing and riding their bikes during the time frame the girls disappeared? Why did E & L wander so far from home that day? I hope all of the parents in Evansdale have questioned there children about whether they were playing with/saw the girls the day they went missing, and if they saw anyone else with the girls. And I stress anyone! Since E & L apparently deemed their abductor trustworthy, the other children probably did, too, and wouldn't have thought it was noteworthy to report.

Just my thoughts.

ooo - intersting facts you note! I never thought about the fact they were supposed to stay close. I live in Edale... and kids ran about town on their bikes all the time! Seriously. I loved that about the town... until now.

One of mine was outside playing at that exact time frame... she was alone for a bit, then I too was outside - but we didn't see a thing. We were right in the area in question as well.

 

[EchoinEdale]

Yes, Misty said she and Lyric went swimming at Byrnes Park and George Wyth lake for the five weeks before she got her job at Caseys. That doesn't mean that they didn't go swimming in the afternoons instead of the mornings. I can envision Wylma letting Misty sleep in and taking Lyric with her to the Collin's house in the mornings. I think the comment in this link validates that possibility.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20622109,00.html

"On July 13, cousins Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, decided, as they often do, to go for a bike ride together. This being a hot morning in Evansdale, Iowa, they poured two cold glasses of V8 Splash and set them on the kitchen counter in Elizabeth's house, at the ready for when they worked up a sweat. At 11:30 they took off, well aware that while many other kids are permitted to zip around the 4-sq.-mi. town on bikes, their family expects them to stick close to home."

Right - and then there is this link: http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_0aa203df-f03c-5322-87b6-194cb70a60a1.html

* Here it sounds like Tammy had L every day?

 

[threecrazykids]

Right - and then there is this link: http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_0aa203df-f03c-5322-87b6-194cb70a60a1.html

* Here it sounds like Tammy had L every day?

I am just not sure what to believe anymore...every time I read through a past article I find something new. Whether it's a time that's different or just information that in another article is completely contradictory.

So, are we EVER going to honestly know how long Lyric had been going with Wylma over to Heather's house to clean?



"And at bedtime, her and I would hold hands, we'd talk about the day, and we'd pray," she added.

The same was true of Elizabeth. For years, Cook and Lyric had gone to the Collins home every morning to help Heather, who almost died from a heart ailment in November 2010 and now has a pacemaker.

So now it's YEARS that they'd been going over there every day? Well, we know that can't be 100% true because Lyric would be in school for 9 months out of the year.

However - (a BIG however) if she'd been going there over the summer months with Wylma for years I believe there is a MUCH higher chance that these two being abducted together is a more likely scenario than if she'd just been going there for a week or so. If they spent their summers together, chances increase that both would be taken when the abduction happened.

This could also mean that BOTH of those girls had been in the Meyers Lake area on a somewhat regular basis without the family's knowledge (which I still don't believe - Tammy proved that almost immediately). Maybe they rode to this friends house together and Mr. Carpenter only recognized Elizabeth because she was in the area not only in the summer, but maybe during the school year months as well...so she was a more familiar face.