IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

[Foxfire]

It's been so long and were still waiting for answer's . I still feel Klunder was involved . He had the freezer's available to him no one had access to them but him. The Hunter's that found the girl's sort of hinted that they recognized them. I know DNA takes a long time it was almost eight months before we heard if a DNA match was made for my missing sister then we knew it wasn't my sister , I had to secure the help of a personal friend to finally get an answer . I know it take's a long time and they have to be 100 percent sure we should get some infomation regarding the girl's this is a loog haul for all of us . Our girl's deserved to live their life and some creep destroyed their's I pray they find out who did this horrfic deed soon . Rest in Peace L&E

Just Pat 22, I also feel, actually am very confident that child predator MJ Klunder, is responsible for E & L's abduction/murder. There are just too many coincidences and parallels for it not to be MJK, imo. Predators are recidivist, and child predators that abduct female victims in pairs are very rare.

Michael J. Klunder, was a violent registered sex offender, had been convicted of multiple assaults in the past, including the abduction of two 3 year olds, and the abductions of KS & DH. MJK, demonstrated a pattern of recidivism, and committed suicide to escape justice, as well as revealing the whole truth of his deviant past, imo.

KS and DH were abducted 10 months later using a unique ruse. It is likely that E & L were also abducted using a unique ruse. KS was located clothed, in the river, days after DH's valiant escape.

Since clothing was located a 7 bridges park, E & L were likely clothed when found. Otherwise scavengers would have removed the clothing from the area for nesting materials, imo.

MJK, was very familiar with the area and was aware that the perfect hunting grounds for female child victims are schools and parks, as well as having means, motive, and opportunity, imo.

The list of coincidences and parallels in the two separate abductions are too many to list..

 

[Foxfire]

Actually, maybe if I weren't stuck on my own theory of it being an RSO, my own theory here would make more sense. Maybe they do have DNA, but if the perps DNA is not in the system, perhaps he just has petty offenses with no reason for them to have his DNA. At what level do they take DNA? Felony convictions?

Squeeze, it varies from state to state. In some states dna is taken for some misdemeanors. Here is some Links on the 1994 Federal DNA Law, etc..

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/bio...ation-affecting-the-federal-dna-database-unit

DNA Identification Act of 1994

Approved date August 25, 1994; effective date September 13, 1994
This legislation authorized and allowed the FBI to establish CODIS and maintain the National DNA Index System.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/case/revolution/databases.html
A review of current law reveals that almost every state has embraced and institutionalized the utilization of DNA fingerprinting for crime fighting purposes. For example, just ten years after the Andrews case was decided, in 1997, all fifty states had laws requiring DNA samples from at least convicted sex offenders


Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Adam's Law

As of July, 2011, the jurisdictions deemed in substantial compliance with the Act are:
Ohio
Confederated Tribes of the Umatilla Indian Reservation
Confederated Tribes and Bands of the Yakama Nation
Delaware
Florida
South Dakota
Michigan
Nevada
Wyoming
Pennsylvania
Compliance is monitored by the SMART office of the United States Department of Justice.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I think if LE had a suspect in this case, we would know about it. It would leak to the media, somehow by somebody. First, there are many cases where LE has one suspect in the disappearance of murder of someone, and that is known to the public. Second, I don't buy the idea that LE wants the perp to think no one suspects him, so he messes up. If LE has a suspect, then they have questioned him, searched his house, etc...The perp knows that he is suspected. LE might keep quiet if they are only a few days away from arresting the perp, but for cases unsolved for months or even years, I definitely think the the name of the top suspect will get out to the media.

How lucky do you have to be not only get away with murder, but also for your name to never appear in the media?

 

[threecrazykids]

Actually, maybe if I weren't stuck on my own theory of it being an RSO, my own theory here would make more sense. Maybe they do have DNA, but if the perps DNA is not in the system, perhaps he just has petty offenses with no reason for them to have his DNA. At what level do they take DNA? Felony convictions?

I have to assume you are referring to the RSO that has been suspected and sleuthed here prior (CMF) Here is what I have bookmarked in regards to CMF and also RSO's in general.

CMF was convicted of Lascivious Acts - solicit 2 counts. Iowa code section 709.8 has 4 subsections, and subsection 3 refers to soliciting. In the law it states that anyone convicted of subsection 3 is guilty of a class D felony.

With that said...the new laws of requirements for DNA profiling went into effect recently which also included aggravated misdemeanors included in DNA sample requirements as well.

(http://www.wgem.com/story/22284638/2013/05/17/new-iowa-law-would-broaden-dna-database)

However, neither of his convictions really matter given the broad requirements below.

This is what I found regarding the DNA requirements for RSO:

http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/cool-...ory=billinfo&service=iowacode&ga=83&input=081

81.2 PERSONS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT A DNA SAMPLE.
1. A person who receives a deferred judgment for a felony or
against whom a judgment or conviction for a felony has been entered
shall be required to submit a DNA sample for DNA profiling pursuant
to section 81.4.
2. A person determined to be a sexually violent predator pursuant
to chapter 229A shall be required to submit a DNA sample for DNA
profiling pursuant to section 81.4 prior to discharge or placement in
a transitional release program.
3. A person found not guilty by reason of insanity of an offense
that requires DNA profiling shall be required to submit a DNA sample
for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4 as part of the person's
treatment management program.
4. A juvenile adjudicated delinquent of an offense that requires
DNA profiling of an adult offender shall be required to submit a DNA
sample for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4 as part of the
disposition of the juvenile's case.
5. An offender placed on probation shall immediately report to
the judicial district department of correctional services after
sentencing so it can be determined if the offender has been convicted
of an offense requiring DNA profiling. If it is determined by the
judicial district that DNA profiling is required, the offender shall
immediately submit a DNA sample.
6. A person required to register as a sex offender shall submit a
DNA sample for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4.

Every person who is CURRENTLY on the RSO registry has to provide DNA.

With all that said, I can only ASSUME that if CMF was a suspect, even if he had NOT provided DNA prior to the girls disappearance they would have no problem making him provide DNA as a RSO requirement...right?

IMO...if LE has done their job we have 1 of two assumptions. Either there was no DNA found with/on the girls, or the DNA isn't matching up with a RSO.

I may be missing or not aware of a situation where DNA wouldn't be collected, however given the law, it's a requirement for any RSO to give DNA so we can pretty much rule out anyone CURRENTLY on the registry, right? If someone was registered and they didn't already have a sample, they'd be able to get it even without a voluntary sample upon request - it's part of the requirements of the registry.

So...either the DNA did NOT match up to a current RSO or maybe there was no "foreign" DNA, right?

Or, it maybe not even matches up to anyone convicted of an aggravated misdemeanor (certain requirements for this)?

This is of course assuming that there was salvageable DNA at all.

Possibly we are down to someone who has been fairly clean in the eyes of the law, or it's someone whose DNA would be on/around the girls and belongs to people they interacted with regularly and could be explained?

 

[watcher9]

I was searching for DNA release info and came across a wealth of data by state applying to crime situations. This info was gathered into reports by the Office of Legislative Research for Connecticut (OLR).

When are crime scene photos, autopsy and other results released?
This clip is for autopsy results in Iowa -
Iowa
(Iowa Code §22.7(41))
Disclosable to:
• law enforcement agency investigating the death and
• next of kin (in most cases).
Public can generally learn the cause and manner of death.
Need not disclose to next of kin or public if it would jeopardize investigation or pose
a clear and present danger to public safety or an individual’s safety.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/gae/VPTF/docs/OLR Research Report - 2013-R-0364.pdf

There are more reports on these subjects -

Forensic Testing - http://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0086.htm
Evidence Testing Backlog - http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/rpt/2011-R-0260.htm

 

[alliemay]

An interesting article on two girls from Oklahoma, Judith Elwell was never found. Brenda White was found by hunters in the woods. Her bike was found in front of a store. The police were looking for a white vehicle. It bothers me that this girls body was in the woods from August 3rd to November, and they had a hard time identifying her. Our girls were in the woods two months longer than this girl was. I know these cases are not related to our girls but I find the similarities interesting.

http://coldcaseok.com/article/citygirls
"Abductors usually operate in areas they know well, Cleary said. In these cases, the attacker may have lived near one of the children and worked near the other.

Cleary examined police documents provided to The Oklahoman. Based on that information, she said, it seems likely that the abductor didn't know the girls but instead chose them as targets of opportunity — little girls alone with no witnesses in sight.

Abductors often use lures to attract children, she said. Pets are among the most common lures.

A brief mention in a forensic anthropologist's report caught Cleary's eye. The report notes that the skeleton of a cat was found near Brenda's remains in a field near Harrah. The cat was shot with a shotgun, and it had died or been left in the field about the same time that Brenda was placed there.

Cleary thinks the cat may have been used to lure Brenda into her killer's car.

"It's too unusual to be a coincidence in my opinion,” Cleary said. "I think the cat remains have some connection, I really do, and unfortunately I think that 40 years down the line, we'll never know.”

Judith and Brenda's cases remain open, although no one is specifically assigned to investigate them."

I still think they should be checking every abandoned building they can find in the 20 mile radius.

 

[alliemay]

http://downloads.newsok.com/documents/y26autopsy.pdf
This is the autopsy report of Brenda White. Makes me sad, angry and sick to my stomach to think that after forty years this little girl still does not have justice while her killer went on to enjoy all life had to offer.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Another bump for Lyric and Lizzie.

It's been almost a year since their remains were found. I wonder about the two hunters who found them. They have stayed out of the media, and I wonder if that was their choice or if it was at the request of LE. It had to be a terrible experience for them.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I have to assume you are referring to the RSO that has been suspected and sleuthed here prior (CMF) Here is what I have bookmarked in regards to CMF and also RSO's in general.

CMF was convicted of Lascivious Acts - solicit 2 counts. Iowa code section 709.8 has 4 subsections, and subsection 3 refers to soliciting. In the law it states that anyone convicted of subsection 3 is guilty of a class D felony.

With that said...the new laws of requirements for DNA profiling went into effect recently which also included aggravated misdemeanors included in DNA sample requirements as well.

(http://www.wgem.com/story/22284638/2013/05/17/new-iowa-law-would-broaden-dna-database)

However, neither of his convictions really matter given the broad requirements below.

This is what I found regarding the DNA requirements for RSO:

http://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/cool-...ory=billinfo&service=iowacode&ga=83&input=081

81.2 PERSONS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT A DNA SAMPLE.
1. A person who receives a deferred judgment for a felony or
against whom a judgment or conviction for a felony has been entered
shall be required to submit a DNA sample for DNA profiling pursuant
to section 81.4.
2. A person determined to be a sexually violent predator pursuant
to chapter 229A shall be required to submit a DNA sample for DNA
profiling pursuant to section 81.4 prior to discharge or placement in
a transitional release program.
3. A person found not guilty by reason of insanity of an offense
that requires DNA profiling shall be required to submit a DNA sample
for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4 as part of the person's
treatment management program.
4. A juvenile adjudicated delinquent of an offense that requires
DNA profiling of an adult offender shall be required to submit a DNA
sample for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4 as part of the
disposition of the juvenile's case.
5. An offender placed on probation shall immediately report to
the judicial district department of correctional services after
sentencing so it can be determined if the offender has been convicted
of an offense requiring DNA profiling. If it is determined by the
judicial district that DNA profiling is required, the offender shall
immediately submit a DNA sample.
6. A person required to register as a sex offender shall submit a
DNA sample for DNA profiling pursuant to section 81.4.

Every person who is CURRENTLY on the RSO registry has to provide DNA.

With all that said, I can only ASSUME that if CMF was a suspect, even if he had NOT provided DNA prior to the girls disappearance they would have no problem making him provide DNA as a RSO requirement...right?

IMO...if LE has done their job we have 1 of two assumptions. Either there was no DNA found with/on the girls, or the DNA isn't matching up with a RSO.

I may be missing or not aware of a situation where DNA wouldn't be collected, however given the law, it's a requirement for any RSO to give DNA so we can pretty much rule out anyone CURRENTLY on the registry, right? If someone was registered and they didn't already have a sample, they'd be able to get it even without a voluntary sample upon request - it's part of the requirements of the registry.

So...either the DNA did NOT match up to a current RSO or maybe there was no "foreign" DNA, right?

Or, it maybe not even matches up to anyone convicted of an aggravated misdemeanor (certain requirements for this)?

This is of course assuming that there was salvageable DNA at all.

Possibly we are down to someone who has been fairly clean in the eyes of the law, or it's someone whose DNA would be on/around the girls and belongs to people they interacted with regularly and could be explained?

Personally I have always doubted this was a sexual attack, and a sexual attack would pretty much be the only thing that would preserve DNA out in the open for this long.

However if they were stabbed there is a chance the attacker cut himself and his blood/dna may be present on what's left of their clothing.

Gosh all sorts of possibilities but yes - if there was DNA, its safe to say at this point they can't match it.


:cow:

 

[SapphireSteel]

When you get arrested here, for anything even a driving offence, you get swabbed fingerprinted photographed etc.

The works.

Swabbing arrestees even for minor offences, has been found to solve all sorts of nasty crimes. There's unknown DNA at a crime scene, the perp gets pulled months later for drink driving and bingo! Got him. It's beautiful.

 

[chelsea6]

:seeya: Hi everyone!! I haven't had a computer all this time. Glad to see you are still here seeking justice for our girls!!

I'm wondering:
Perhaps whatever DNA evidence they had retrieved was somehow compromised, making it worthless as evidence. A botched item like this wouldn't be released as information to the public.

 

[Marilynilpa]

O/T (and this may be already on WS somewhere):

The FBI is seeking the public’s assistance to stop a child predator.

The individual we are seeking is currently known only as John Doe 27. Video of the man engaging in sexually explicit activities with a child were discovered online in April 2013 by the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC), and those images are still circulating in child *advertiser censored* forums across the Internet.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2013/november/help-us-identify-a-child-predator

 

[bessie]

MOD NOTE: Linking to personal FB pages is off limits.

Thanks.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I get a sick stomach when I check here and these precious girls still have no justice. I know, I'm a broken record but how can a crime this big go unsolved in such a small town? Somebody saw something.

 

[dotr]

Not sure if this has been posted already or not..

http://www.myfoxla.com/story/239155...ce-area?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

"Venice, CA -

(FOX 11 / CNS) Police today were warning the public to be on the lookout for a man who tried to kidnap a 13-year-old girl in Venice.

The man approached the girl about 10:30 p.m. Saturday at the intersection of Lincoln Boulevard and Millwood Avenue and asked if she needed a ride, according to a Los Angeles Police Department statement.

The suspect then approached the girl from behind and grabbed her by an arm, police said. The girl kicked the man, at which time he let go of her, and she ran away, observing the suspect driving away as she fled, according to police.

The suspect is described as 35-40 years old, 5 feet 10 inches tall, about 150 pounds with a receding hairline. The vehicle was described as a white four-door sedan"

Read more: http://www.myfoxla.com/story/239155...urce=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#ixzz2kZFyN1sb
bbm.

 

[dotr]

Huge child *advertiser censored* bust!!

Hundreads of children rescued from sex abuse - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Psychology101]

Hello, everyone. I am new to the forums, and I'm currently a student headed towards getting a degree in Psychology, so hopefully I'll be a welcome addition to the group. I live in Iowa about an hour and a half away from where this all happened, and helped with a Facebook page of about 20,000 people back when the search was going on. I was very sad to see there hasn't been any news on this in quite a while, so I was glad to find this community still dedicated to discussing it and putting your heads together.

I have a few questions if that's okay. I simply don't have the time to read through hundreds of pages to get caught up, so please forgive me if I repeat things that have been asked a million times. First off, I know that back several months ago they were comparing the case of Elizabeth and Lyric to the previous acts of Michael Klunder. I saw a news article that said they'd have more info to release to the public in a week or so (back in June I think), and never saw anything else about it. Did they ever draw any sort of conclusion? Also, did they ever speak again about the white SUV they were looking for that had been in the area around the time of the girls' disappearance?

I look forward to participating in this forum with you all. One last question, how do I change my email address on here? I was forced to sign up with my school email, as it said I can't use my Hotmail unless it's approved by an admin. When I tried to click the link to send my hotmail address for approval, it wouldn't allow me. Please advise.

 

[KateB]

Welcome, Psychology101. Don't have the answers you seek but can direct you to more reading:
Dedicated thread for MK:
IA - KLUNDER, Michael J: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK

 

[watcher9]

Hello, everyone. I am new to the forums, and I'm currently a student headed towards getting a degree in Psychology, so hopefully I'll be a welcome addition to the group. I live in Iowa about an hour and a half away from where this all happened, and helped with a Facebook page of about 20,000 people back when the search was going on. I was very sad to see there hasn't been any news on this in quite a while, so I was glad to find this community still dedicated to discussing it and putting your heads together.

I have a few questions if that's okay. I simply don't have the time to read through hundreds of pages to get caught up, so please forgive me if I repeat things that have been asked a million times. First off, I know that back several months ago they were comparing the case of Elizabeth and Lyric to the previous acts of Michael Klunder. I saw a news article that said they'd have more info to release to the public in a week or so (back in June I think), and never saw anything else about it. Did they ever draw any sort of conclusion? Also, did they ever speak again about the white SUV they were looking for that had been in the area around the time of the girls' disappearance?

I look forward to participating in this forum with you all. One last question, how do I change my email address on here? I was forced to sign up with my school email, as it said I can't use my Hotmail unless it's approved by an admin. When I tried to click the link to send my hotmail address for approval, it wouldn't allow me. Please advise.

WELCOME TO WS
:seeya::loveyou::loveyou::seeya:

No statement has been released on anything about MK since you last heard.
Nothing further has been said about the white SUV either.
Since you live so close, you probably hear more about this case around the water fountain than we would.

Here is a link on information about your email address.
Acceptable Email Addresses - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Since MK is not a named suspect in this forum, a new thread was set up just to discuss him. I think this link will work.
IA IA - KLUNDER, Michael J: Violent Sexual Offender, Murderer, and Suspected SK - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Psychology101]

Thanks for the info and the warm welcome. I honestly don't watch the news very often at all. I do all my searching online for news updates, and just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. I really hope there are some new developments soon on this. Also, I don't think Klunder had anything to do with it. I just was curious if they'd eliminated him yet as a suspect. I wonder why it's taking them so long to update us when we were promised an update months ago. Bizarre.