IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

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I would think it would be safe to say that someone knew where they were going, don't you think? It is hard to imagine a person would just be driving and happen to end up @ 7Bs.

This leads me to suspect the abduction was planned.

Of course, I really have no idea. We are sane individuals trying to imagine what someone of like mind is capable of doing ....

Thank you 3CK; your visit to 7Bs was so helpful!
 
The road off the main highway is gravel. You turn off the highway and then go a good mile, then turn right again and go probably a 1/2 mile down another gravel road before you even realize you're coming upon the entrance of the park. Then when you come in...there are several routes you could take to decide which way you want to go within the park.

When I spoke to Cinder we were both discussing how difficult it was to find- I know we passed the turn off, and I believe Cinder may have as well. There was no signage whatsoever that says "Seven Bridges Wildlife Area" or anything of the like that I remember seeing. DH said there used to be a "Public Access" sign along the highway, but at the time we were there, there was no such sign indicating the turn off.

Hope that helps.:seeya:

We came from the north and was hard to find as well. The gate was still up then. I never did get there this last summer. Whenever i was near, I didn't have time. :(
 
IIRC Cinder biked through E'dale too

Such devotion!

Remember MJK hadn't crossed LE radar before Kathlynn...imagine how many more strung out nasty violent freaks are also running wild in methland, who have also slipped off the radar of the overworked Iowa justice system.

The mind boggles.

Still, this crime is too organised to be a random imo.
 
IIRC Cinder biked through E'dale too

Such devotion!

Remember MJK hadn't crossed LE radar before Kathlynn...imagine how many more strung out nasty violent freaks are also running wild in methland, who have also slipped off the radar of the overworked Iowa justice system.

The mind boggles.

Still, this crime is too organised to be a random imo.

But in what way? I think the crime was thought out. . .even fantasized. :shudder: But is there any evidence that Lizzie and Lyric were specifically targeted? If this was THAT type of crime there is NO reason that Lizzie was a casualty. I'm sure that there would have been plenty of opportunity to take Lyric on her own. But that's not what happened.

Actually, if what you were hinting at was true, they would have waited until Lyric was without Lizzie. Lizzie would have been a deterrent. . .a no go. Why involve a child who's parent's aren't involved in the seedy underworld of illicit drugs? They are a wild card. They are going to freak out and involve LE, even the FBI, very quickly. That would be unwanted attention. Anyone, even remotely acquainted, with Dan and Misty would go under the microscope, including them! That's equivalent to a LE colonoscopy! I just don't see how anyone would take that risk, if this was just about the illegal behavior of Dan and Misty.
 
But in what way? I think the crime was thought out. . .even fantasized. :shudder: But is there any evidence that Lizzie and Lyric were specifically targeted? If this was THAT type of crime there is NO reason that Lizzie was a casualty. I'm sure that there would have been plenty of opportunity to take Lyric on her own. But that's not what happened.

Actually, if what you were hinting at was true, they would have waited until Lyric was without Lizzie. Lizzie would have been a deterrent. . .a no go. Why involve a child who's parent's aren't involved in the seedy underworld of illicit drugs? They are a wild card. They are going to freak out and involve LE, even the FBI, very quickly. That would be unwanted attention. Anyone, even remotely acquainted, with Dan and Misty would go under the microscope, including them! That's equivalent to a LE colonoscopy! I just don't see how anyone would take that risk, if this was just about the illegal behavior of Dan and Misty.

Who's to say that Lyric was the target? Why couldn't Lizzy and HER family be the target? If you were going to do harm to the Collins' family you couldn't have asked for a better "tag along" than Lyric to muddy up the focus of the investigation. If this person knew anything about the dynamics of the family they would know EXACTLY what road LE is going to head down when both those girls were taken together.

Sheer luck? Or planned "coincidence"....:moo:

Remember...this didn't happen on Dan and Misty's stompin' grounds. This was the Collins' turf. And remember who was all over the media when the search was underway in those first few weeks? It was Dan and Misty, not Heather and Drew.
 
It's hard for me to consider MK a serious suspect because it just doesn't fit in with my theory of what happened. However, I can see why many of us DO think he's a viable suspect based on the fact that he abducted two girls at the same time, which is a statistically rarity.

I'm glad we're discussing him, because it keeps this thread active!
 
Anyone know how many hog confinement facilities are located in Readlyn, IA, in the vicinity of 7 Bridges Park?
There is a hog confinement facility located at 2546 260th street, Readlyn, IA. owned by MS; superintendent of schools. Not sure how far that is from the 7B Park, or if MJK had access to this or other hog facilities in Bremer County, IA.
Hopefully investigators have considered this angle due to MJK's mo in KS & DH's abduction..
 
Anyone know how many hog confinement facilities are located in Readlyn, IA, in the vicinity of 7 Bridges Park?
There is a hog confinement facility located at 2546 260th street, Readlyn, IA. owned by MS; superintendent of schools. Not sure how far that is from the 7B Park, or if MJK had access to this or other hog facilities in Bremer County, IA.
Hopefully investigators have considered this angle due to MJK's mo in KS & DH's abduction..

It's two hours away from Stratford where he lived. I think maybe we are over assuming that MJK frequented other hog confinements all over the state.

Again, I feel like it's trying to come up with ways to fit him into the crime. Trying to come up with a reason to place him anywhere within Bremer county if we can. If he was in other confinements regularly - especially anywhere near the girls, wouldn't you think LE would have been notified by these people?

Typically hog confinements are supplied with piglets (typically from a pork producer such as Maschhoff Pork around here) and are managed to market. There really isn't a whole lot of reason for an employee of one hog confinement to go from one to the other. If ANYONE would have gone from one to the other, wouldn't it be MJK's father in law/mother in law who actually owned the operations?

So are you thinking that if he had been to other confinements in Bremer county he would "lunch" and plan an abduction at Meyer's Lake during his trip? That would mean this was a regular thing while he was planning - making it much more likely he'd have been noticed by regulars at the lake I would think...
 
I thought I read somewhere that Klunder had friends in Evansdale. If there was some type of fair or something coming up with dealing with hogs who's to say he didn't come down to Evansdale to check things out ahead of time and visit with friends?
 
I thought I read somewhere that Klunder had friends in Evansdale. If there was some type of fair or something coming up with dealing with hogs who's to say he didn't come down to Evansdale to check things out ahead of time and visit with friends?

IIRC, MK had a Facebook "friend" who lived in Evansdale. That doesn't necessarily make them real friends who would visit each other. JMO.

If he has another confirmed connection to Evansdale, please correct me (and please post a link:please:)
 
It's two hours away from Stratford where he lived. I think maybe we are over assuming that MJK frequented other hog confinements all over the state.

Again, I feel like it's trying to come up with ways to fit him into the crime. Trying to come up with a reason to place him anywhere within Bremer county if we can. If he was in other confinements regularly - especially anywhere near the girls, wouldn't you think LE would have been notified by these people?

Typically hog confinements are supplied with piglets (typically from a pork producer such as Maschhoff Pork around here) and are managed to market. There really isn't a whole lot of reason for an employee of one hog confinement to go from one to the other. If ANYONE would have gone from one to the other, wouldn't it be MJK's father in law/mother in law who actually owned the operations?

So are you thinking that if he had been to other confinements in Bremer county he would "lunch" and plan an abduction at Meyer's Lake during his trip? That would mean this was a regular thing while he was planning - making it much more likely he'd have been noticed by regulars at the lake I would think...

I'm going to quit posting because you say what I think a lot better than I do!!:loveyou:
 
It's two hours away from Stratford where he lived. I think maybe we are over assuming that MJK frequented other hog confinements all over the state.

Again, I feel like it's trying to come up with ways to fit him into the crime. Trying to come up with a reason to place him anywhere within Bremer county if we can. If he was in other confinements regularly - especially anywhere near the girls, wouldn't you think LE would have been notified by these people?

Typically hog confinements are supplied with piglets (typically from a pork producer such as Maschhoff Pork around here) and are managed to market. There really isn't a whole lot of reason for an employee of one hog confinement to go from one to the other. If ANYONE would have gone from one to the other, wouldn't it be MJK's father in law/mother in law who actually owned the operations?

So are you thinking that if he had been to other confinements in Bremer county he would "lunch" and plan an abduction at Meyer's Lake during his trip? That would mean this was a regular thing while he was planning - making it much more likely he'd have been noticed by regulars at the lake I would think...

What I am saying threecrazykids, is that 39 hog confinement barns in Central Iowa were managed by MJK's inlaws. Many; (29) were owned by others but contracted by MJK's employer who managed them. Whether any of the facilities were located in Bremer, Black Hawk, or an adjacent County should be investigated for multiple reasons, imo.
The employees would have performed the actual work/labor and would have likely had a scheduled route. Most hog confinement facilities are automated for feeding and watering.
When MJK abducted KS & DH, he used a euthanasia gun to skirt the convicted felon in possession of a firearm law. IMO, this would indicate that MJK performed the hands on work, such as euthanizing compromised piglets, etc.

RE: If he was in other confinements regularly - especially anywhere near the girls, wouldn't you think LE would have been notified by these people

3CK, who knows?..These tips may not have been shared with the public or overshadowed by the 1100 other tips, and overlooked by investigators. As was the white box-like SUV which was reported by three different eyewitnesses...It would have made for a very good alibi, and or justification for being in the area, should MJK have been suspected as a POI early on in the investigation.. "Hey, I was just doing my job"..."I am a church going, hard working, respectable family man now"..

___________________________________
RE: Typically hog confinements are supplied with piglets (typically from a pork producer such as Maschhoff Pork around here) and are managed to market.

3CK, Murphy-Brown is a large nationwide corp.
http://www.murphybrownllc.com/ABOUT/index.html
Welcome to Murphy-Brown, LLC, the livestock production subsidiary of Smithfield Foods, Inc. As the world’s largest producer of pork products, we’re committed to producing quality pork while protecting the environment and preserving family farms.
_______________________

http://www.iowapork.org/FileLibrary/States/IA/News/Magazine/March2012Mag.pdf - March 2012
See Page 27 - 39 hog confinement barns in Central Iowa managed by MJK's inlaws..

In 2004, with the encouragement of Murphy-Brown staff, Steve
and LaVonne leased 20 barns from Murphy-Brown and assumed management of another
24 finishing barns. They have purchased 10 barns and manage the other 29 for a variety
of owners, both local and distant
. In 2006, all sites were converted to wean-to-finish.
The Flygstads now operate 39 barns in central Iowa with their daughter, Lisa, and two employees.

http://www.aasv.org/aasv/documents/SwineEuthanasia.pdf
The Zephyr Gun, which uses a non-penetrating captive bolt to cause a traumatic impact with the skull rendering a pig immediately insensible, was developed at the University of Guelph as an alternative to blunt force trauma for euthanasia.

“He had a gun, but he left it,” DH said. “I took it and hid in the woods.”

The girl tossed the gun, a weapon used for euthanizing livestock, in the woods and kept running, she said. Searchers found the gun Wednesday.
- See more at: http://thegazette.com/2013/05/23/io...e-money-by-mowing-lawns/#sthash.b0qMzYxY.dpuf
 
But in what way? I think the crime was thought out. . .even fantasized. :shudder: But is there any evidence that Lizzie and Lyric were specifically targeted? If this was THAT type of crime there is NO reason that Lizzie was a casualty. I'm sure that there would have been plenty of opportunity to take Lyric on her own. But that's not what happened.

Actually, if what you were hinting at was true, they would have waited until Lyric was without Lizzie. Lizzie would have been a deterrent. . .a no go. Why involve a child who's parent's aren't involved in the seedy underworld of illicit drugs? They are a wild card. They are going to freak out and involve LE, even the FBI, very quickly. That would be unwanted attention. Anyone, even remotely acquainted, with Dan and Misty would go under the microscope, including them! That's equivalent to a LE colonoscopy! I just don't see how anyone would take that risk, if this was just about the illegal behavior of Dan and Misty.

Personally I question everything including assumptions made about peoples lifestyles.

The public and the private persona often differ.
 
Who's to say that Lyric was the target? Why couldn't Lizzy and HER family be the target? If you were going to do harm to the Collins' family you couldn't have asked for a better "tag along" than Lyric to muddy up the focus of the investigation. If this person knew anything about the dynamics of the family they would know EXACTLY what road LE is going to head down when both those girls were taken together.

Sheer luck? Or planned "coincidence"....:moo:

Remember...this didn't happen on Dan and Misty's stompin' grounds. This was the Collins' turf. And remember who was all over the media when the search was underway in those first few weeks? It was Dan and Misty, not Heather and Drew.

The thanks button wasn't enough. I totally agree with everything you've said here.
 
Instead of all this speculation; I'd like to go back to the shops they were seen on their bikes at in the alley behind those shops. Who owns said shops, what type of shops were they and who was patronizing said shops? It is then that I think these little ones were "targeted". Possibly even taken at that point. For me this is essential to eliminate these people. And that means everyone who works there was there and esp if they are no longer in the same job or shop. Does anyone have any info regarding the shops and that area? I think we should look at it.
 
Instead of all this speculation; I'd like to go back to the shops they were seen on their bikes at in the alley behind those shops. Who owns said shops, what type of shops were they and who was patronizing said shops? It is then that I think these little ones were "targeted". Possibly even taken at that point. For me this is essential to eliminate these people. And that means everyone who works there was there and esp if they are no longer in the same job or shop. Does anyone have any info regarding the shops and that area? I think we should look at it.

You might want to check out some of the earlier threads where this was discussed quite a bit. I remember some posters were speculating that the girls may have encountered the perp in that area.
 
The problem with a shop related abductor has always been the bikes.

We can confirm the following

1. The family say the girls had never biked to the lake

2. Whoever took the girls was lying in wait for them

3. No vehicles were seen at the lake despite there being a few people about.

4.Whoever took them got both girls instead of just one...very unusual for a sexual predator.

5. Lyric (at least from a distance) was adult sized.

:moo:

How did the abuctor pull off such a flawless crime?

How did he know the girls were headed to the lake? How did he/they manage to get to the lake before them?

If it was Klunder, (or someone like him) was he just sitting in the park on the off chance a girl or two would bike past alone?

He may have had to wait days before an appropriate target came along. Far too risky IMO. Sexual predators go to the source -schools, playgrounds, malls, bedroom windows.

:moo:
 
Here is another thing I was thinking of regarding the boxy white suv. Two of the witnesses stated they saw the vehicle parked on Arbutus. The 3rd witness stated they saw it parked "near the woods". Now that I'm thinking about it I think it makes sense that those girls were meeting someone there

http://www.kwwl.com/story/22671327/2013/06/24/evansdale

The way I see all 3 witness accounts making sense, would be that the person was sitting on Arbutus (which meets up with the bike trail) waiting for the girls to pass by Arbutus to the back of the lake.
THEN, once they saw them ride by on the bike trail (which would ALSO take into account them stopping and asking for directions to the lake at Fareway - if that's true) the perp then pulls further into the wooded area - in essence "trapping them".

I also don't think the girls knew what kind of vehicle this person was driving. I assume this because if the girls recognized the vehicle the perp was driving I would have expected them to veer off the path and head to the vehicle (if they saw it sitting on Arbutus). But if they were riding along and didn't know what the person would be driving, they wouldn't have looked for, or recognized any vehicle sitting along Arbutus.

This theory also makes sense that if the girls knew this person, there wouldn't have been obvious signs of a struggle there at the lake. The girls could have willingly laid their bikes down with a promise of "let's go get some ice cream and bring it back here" and boom, the bikes are dropped, and off they go.

That scenario makes sense to me as far as the vehicle moving from Arbutus over to the wooded area as all 3 witnesses claim as well as no obvious signs of trouble. The girls knew WHO they were meeting, they just didn't necessarily know WHAT the person would be driving. Otherwise, I would have expected CCTV that picked up the girls to have possibly picked up this SUV if they were approached closer to home.
 
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