IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #35

[threecrazykids]

Yep, carbuff, that's an excellent analogy and theory of what likely happened in EC & LC's abduction & murder, imo..
As opposed to KS & DH's abduction, where the predator; MJK, had watched KS & DH, get off that same school bus many times before. MJK, only lived 500' from the school/bus stop. Their abduction was likely planned with them as the intended victims , imo. Due to their school being only days before letting out for summer break on June 5/2012. The window of opportunity for their abduction was quickly diminishing, imo..

Can you please provide a link for these two facts you've stated?

I can't find a link to any MSM that states he watched the girls get off that bus OR one that stated he lived 500' from the bus stop.

All articles I've found state MJK lived in Stratford - whereas the abduction was in Dayton which is an 11 minute drive. He may have driven there daily but I am struggling to find any links backing up your above statements I bolded. If both of those statements are true, I agree he may have planned out their abduction and I'd like to look further into it.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/police-recover-backpacks-2-kidnapped-iowa-girls

SNIPPED:
Klunder committed suicide Monday, hours after he took 15-year-old Kathlynn Shepard and a 12-year-old friend in Dayton,a town of about 850 that is 60 miles north of Des Moines.

recently bought a house with her in Stratford, records show

I'd just like to read the articles where it was stated that he watched the girls get off the bus daily and lived only 500' from that particular bus stop.

I am not asking for a link because I don't believe your statement, but I want to stick to FACTS about MJK if I'm going to keep him a POI. I have read many articles about MJK and I have yet to read any statements about him stalking and watching the girls OR that he lived '500 from the bus stop so I'd like to read those articles.

Thank you! :seeya:

 

[KayBe]

OT but:
http://www.communitynewspapergroup....cle_4e665976-61bc-11e3-956c-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[iamnotagolem]

OT but:
http://www.communitynewspapergroup....cle_4e665976-61bc-11e3-956c-0019bb2963f4.html

Interesting bits from that article...


He said that Klooster will explain how the first couple of hours in a missing-child investigation are very important to save lives.

“Members of the team will have certain guidelines to do different things,” Collins said. “One of them would run the operation on how to get law enforcement where they need to go and get things in the right direction. The first couple of hours are so important. If it’s not handled correctly, then what have happened with us will happen to others.”

 

[iamnotagolem]

I've questioned the investigation and how it was handled those first few hours, days, weeks. But I wonder what specifically Drew is referring to when he says "then what have happened with us will happen to others"??????

 

[Marilynilpa]

I've questioned the investigation and how it was handled those first few hours, days, weeks. But I wonder what specifically Drew is referring to when he says "then what have happened with us will happen to others"??????

I wondered about that, too, when I read the article a couple of days ago. Drew specifically says "The first couple of hours are so important." I wonder what he feels should have been done in the first couple of hours?

 

[Foxfire]

Interesting bits from that article...


He said that Klooster will explain how the first couple of hours in a missing-child investigation are very important to save lives.

“Members of the team will have certain guidelines to do different things,” Collins said. “One of them would run the operation on how to get law enforcement where they need to go and get things in the right direction. The first couple of hours are so important. If it’s not handled correctly, then what have happened with us will happen to others.”

Over 7 days before the EC & LC's disapearance was considered an abduction investigation.. Although all indicators, including statistics, pointed to an abduction from day one, imo. The families were the primary focus....


IOWA MISSING GIRLS CASE NOW CONSIDERED ABDUCTION
By RYAN J. FOLEY
— Jul. 20, 2012
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/iowa-missing-girls-case-now-considered-abduction
EVANSDALE, Iowa (AP) — Investigators reclassified the disappearance of two missing Iowa cousins as an abduction case Friday after an FBI dive team failed to find their bodies in a lake near where they were last seen a week ago.

Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, vanished after riding bikes near Meyers Lake in Evansdale, a small town in northeast Iowa that has been devastated by their disappearance. Their bikes were later found on a path near the lake.

Investigators are confident the girls did not drown or die in the lake, and they do not believe the girls got lost because they would have been found by now, Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben told reporters during an afternoon news briefing.

"Since we can't find them, and they are not in the lake, we're calling it an abduction," said Abben, who announced a $50,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction. "Now that it's an abduction, everyone is a suspect until we find these people, these two young girls."

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51536616/FBI-Child-Abduction-Response-Plan

FBI Child Abduction Response Plan <sniped>
3
INITIAL RESPONSE
If there is one lesson to be learned from the trials and errors of previous incidents, it is how the initial complaint should be processed. Without the presence of witnesses who can readily furnish factual details of the incident, the responding officer must determine what probably occurred based upon his/her initial observations and findings. This determination will dictate what investigative steps will be taken. The purpose of the initial response is to gather sufficient information to determine what occurred. The accuracy of this determination or assessment is crucial, in that an actual abduction requires a prompt and detailed investigation.

During this investigation nothing should be assumed and everything should be verified. Far too often crucial details are overlooked because one investigator thought someone else had taken care of a particular aspect, or a witness&#8217;s account of the incident need not be verified because the witness &#8220;seemed credible.&#8221; A rapid and thorough investigation may also develop additional information that will indicate that the matter is not an abduction.

It may be a pretense to cover up the homicide or domestic problems of the reported missing victim, or the child maybe lost or injured or may have run away.
At this point the investigation can &#8220;stand down&#8221; and investigators can take the appropriate action to resolve that matter. It is much easier to redirect the investigation and resources at that point than to make up lost ground and recover overlooked or damaged evidence and/or lost clues because of a failure to initially use all available personnel and resources.

A proper assessment should direct the investigation appropriately from the onset.
__________________

http://leb.fbi.gov/2012/february/cr...od-canvass-and-child-abduction-investigations

Crimes Against Children Spotlight
The Neighborhood Canvass and Child Abduction Investigations
By Ashli-Jade Douglas 2012

In 76 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within three hours of the reported abduction, and in 89 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within 24 hours. These dramatic statistics illustrate the importance of executing the most effective recovery strategies immediately after a child goes missing. A neighborhood canvass is one such tactic. According to FBI studies, the majority of successfully resolved child abduction cases included a neighborhood canvass.2 Past FBI cases demonstrate the importance of conducting a neighborhood canvass and showcase why this investigative tool frequently helps resolve child abduction incidents.3

At times, law enforcement personnel overlook or underemphasize the importance of this practice. Yet, according to the FBI&#8217;s Behavioral Analysis Unit&#8217;s (BAU) Child Abduction Response Plan (CARP), the neighborhood canvass is, perhaps, the most vital step in missing children cases.4

_________________________________

http://www.yellodyno.com/html/abductions_stats.html

Abduction Statistics

 

[Marilynilpa]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51536616/FBI-Child-Abduction-Response-Plan

FBI Child Abduction Response Plan <sniped>
3
INITIAL RESPONSE
If there is one lesson to be learned from the trials and errors of previous incidents, it is how the initial complaint should be processed. Without the presence of witnesses who can readily furnish factual details of the incident, the responding officer must determine what probably occurred based upon his/her initial observations and findings. This determination will dictate what investigative steps will be taken. The purpose of the initial response is to gather sufficient information to determine what occurred. The accuracy of this determination or assessment is crucial, in that an actual abduction requires a prompt and detailed investigation.

During this investigation nothing should be assumed and everything should be verified. Far too often crucial details are overlooked because one investigator thought someone else had taken care of a particular aspect, or a witness&#8217;s account of the incident need not be verified because the witness &#8220;seemed credible.&#8221; A rapid and thorough investigation may also develop additional information that will indicate that the matter is not an abduction.

It may be a pretense to cover up the homicide or domestic problems of the reported missing victim, or the child maybe lost or injured or may have run away.
At this point the investigation can &#8220;stand down&#8221; and investigators can take the appropriate action to resolve that matter. It is much easier to redirect the investigation and resources at that point than to make up lost ground and recover overlooked or damaged evidence and/or lost clues because of a failure to initially use all available personnel and resources.

A proper assessment should direct the investigation appropriately from the onset.
__________________

http://leb.fbi.gov/2012/february/cr...od-canvass-and-child-abduction-investigations

Crimes Against Children Spotlight
The Neighborhood Canvass and Child Abduction Investigations
By Ashli-Jade Douglas 2012

In 76 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within three hours of the reported abduction, and in 89 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within 24 hours. These dramatic statistics illustrate the importance of executing the most effective recovery strategies immediately after a child goes missing. A neighborhood canvass is one such tactic. According to FBI studies, the majority of successfully resolved child abduction cases included a neighborhood canvass.2 Past FBI cases demonstrate the importance of conducting a neighborhood canvass and showcase why this investigative tool frequently helps resolve child abduction incidents.3

At times, law enforcement personnel overlook or underemphasize the importance of this practice. Yet, according to the FBI&#8217;s Behavioral Analysis Unit&#8217;s (BAU) Child Abduction Response Plan (CARP), the neighborhood canvass is, perhaps, the most vital step in missing children cases.4

Thanks for the very informative post.

IMO, the neighborhood canvass was not thorough in the initial days. There is a poster who lives very near Meyers Lake, and he was not questioned on July 13th. In fact, I can't recall if he was ever questioned.

Unfortunately, it's my opinion that the girls were already dead by the time the initial searches took place on July 13th. But perhaps a more thorough canvass of the neighborhood might have elicited information leading to the perp(s).

 

[Foxfire]

Thanks for the very informative post.

IMO, the neighborhood canvass was not thorough in the initial days. There is a poster who lives very near Meyers Lake, and yet he was not questioned on July 13th. In fact, I can't recall if he was ever questioned.

Unfortunately, it's my opinion that the girls were already dead by the time the initial searches took place on July 13th. But perhaps a more thorough canvass of the neighborhood might have elicited information leading to the perp(s).

YW, Marilynilpa, and yes imo, errors were made in the initial size up of the incident, as well as an incomplete canvass and follow up of the information/tips received. This led to inaccurate conclusions by investigators during the initial critical hours, imo.

Imo, a stranger sexual predator abduction should have been obvious to experienced and instinctual investigators. The following statistics are very important;

In 76 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within three hours of the reported abduction, and in 89 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within 24 hours.

These dramatic statistics illustrate the importance of executing the most effective recovery strategies immediately after a child goes missing.

 

[Marilynilpa]

YW, Marilynilpa, and yes imo, errors were made in the initial size up of the incident, as well as an incomplete canvass and follow up of the information/tips received. This led to inaccurate conclusions by investigators during the initial critical hours, imo.

Imo, a stranger sexual predator abduction should have been obvious to experienced and instinctual investigators. The following statistics are very important;

In 76 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within three hours of the reported abduction, and in 89 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within 24 hours.

These dramatic statistics illustrate the importance of executing the most effective recovery strategies immediately after a child goes missing.

IMO this was not a stranger sexual predator abduction.

But I agree that LE may have come to incorrect conclusions. For instance, LE continued to claim the girls were still alive, up until their bodies were found.

 

[SapphireSteel]

YW, Marilynilpa, and yes imo, errors were made in the initial size up of the incident, as well as an incomplete canvass and follow up of the information/tips received. This led to inaccurate conclusions by investigators during the initial critical hours, imo.

Imo, a stranger sexual predator abduction should have been obvious to experienced and instinctual investigators. The following statistics are very important;

In 76 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within three hours of the reported abduction, and in 89 percent of child abduction murders, the victim was killed within 24 hours.

These dramatic statistics illustrate the importance of executing the most effective recovery strategies immediately after a child goes missing.

What's obvious is that LE follow the evidence.

Something made them believe the girls were alive -evidence of some sort.

Since then the evidence has apparently led them away from certain scenarios


LE cannot control the evidence or where it leads them

In the old days they called these misleading pieces of information "red herrings".

Sadly these days they are called "police incompetence".

 

[Marilynilpa]

What's obvious is that LE follow the evidence.

Something made them believe the girls were alive -evidence of some sort.

Since then the evidence has apparently led them away from certain scenarios


LE cannot control the evidence or where it leads them

In the old days they called these misleading pieces of information "red herrings".

Sadly these days they are called "police incompetence".

This is something we've discussed before - did LE think the girls were still alive because their bodies had not been found? Or did LE have some evidence that caused them to believe the girls really were alive?

I tend to believe LE really thought the girls were alive. It wasn't just local LE that felt this way - the FBI agreed:

About a week after the girls disappeared, investigators said they thought Lyric and Elizabeth were alive.

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault declined then to say exactly what evidence they had to push them toward that conclusion, urging anyone with information to come forward.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/10/us/iowa-missing-girls/

But the girls were not still alive, so obviously somewhere along the line an incorrect conclusion was drawn. JMO. Of course, we have no idea what evidence caused them to come to this faulty conclusion.

I just came across this quote from Abben, which I had forgotten about:

"Now that it's an abduction, everyone's a suspect," Abben said at the time, adding that investigators had recovered some evidence and sent it to the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation for analysis. He declined to say what the evidence was or where it was found.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ved-to-be-iowa-girls-who-went-missing-in-july

BBM

So "everyone's a suspect", meaning no one has been cleared. JMO.

 

[B4igo2it]

Massive search underway for abducted teen in Iowa
Updated: May 21, 2013 at 6:46 pm • Published: May 21, 2013

DCI and FBI agents who have been involved in the search for the Evansdale girls have been dispatched to help search for KS (Klunder victim)

Read more at http://gazette.com/massive-search-u...in-iowa/article/feed/6597#80SAofEKzgUep64L.99

IMO, these agents can compare similarities between the cases e.g. the ties used on DH, condition of KS trauma, etc.

(I still cannot believe what all was accomplished in 4 hours on that tragic day when KS/DH were abducted. MJK traveled a great distance (70 miles - see map link below), discarded the backpacks/purse, a body, AND committed suicide. I wonder if he made any phone calls to his wife, son and/or family?)

Map Link: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...thzHnSGrtg4v8bA&oq=Lehigh,+IA&t=h&mra=ls&z=10

 

[Foxfire]

Massive search underway for abducted teen in Iowa
Updated: May 21, 2013 at 6:46 pm &#8226; Published: May 21, 2013

DCI and FBI agents who have been involved in the search for the Evansdale girls have been dispatched to help search for KS (Klunder victim)

Read more at http://gazette.com/massive-search-u...in-iowa/article/feed/6597#80SAofEKzgUep64L.99

IMO, these agents can compare similarities between the cases e.g. the ties used on DH, condition of KS trauma, etc.

(I still cannot believe what all was accomplished in 4 hours on that tragic day when KS/DH were abducted. MJK traveled a great distance (70 miles - see map link below), discarded the backpacks/purse, a body, AND committed suicide. I wonder if he made any phone calls to his wife, son and/or family?)

Map Link: https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...thzHnSGrtg4v8bA&oq=Lehigh,+IA&t=h&mra=ls&z=10

RE: I wonder if he made any phone calls to his wife, son and/or family?

"Or a suicide letter"?
______________
MJK, had honed his predator skills for decades via his many abductions and violent attacks on females. Imo, MJK was also very well read on LE investigative strategies and detection avoidance. The Dayton IA Police Department is a very small LEA with limited resources. MJK, would have been aware of this, imo. Backup resources from State, County, and Federal LEAs would have taken time and delayed the initial investigation of KS & DH's disappearance.

MJK, was also aware of police jurisdictional linkage blindness which is used to prevent investigators from connecting the dots. Jurisdiction Linkage Blindness is a phrase coined by Professor Steven Egger in the 1980s. Law enforcement investigators sometimes do not see, or are prevented from seeing beyond their own jurisdictional responsibilities.
__________________________________
http://www.experts123.com/q/what-is-linkage-blindness.html
What is linkage blindness?

Linkage blindness is a term coined by a criminology professor [Steven Egger] who did a study on serial murderers in democratic nations across the world and compared them with serial murderers in America. What he found is that American law enforcement agencies take LONGER to identify serial murderers, and serial murderers commit MORE murders in America than they do in other democratic nations like England, Germany, and France.

He attributes the reason for that to linkage blindness. American law enforcement agencies suffer from linkage blindness for three reasons: 1) We have what the professor terms a non-system of policing.
2)Our country is made up of a whole bunch of very, very small police departments. I think the average size is on average 15 police officers across the country.
3)The police officers in these small departments think within their jurisdiction and not beyond their borders.
____________________________
http://knowledge.sagepub.com/view/violentcrime/n259.xml
Linkage Blindness
DR Steven Egger
Law enforcement investigators sometimes do not see or are prevented from seeing beyond their own jurisdictional responsibilities. The officer's responsibility usually stops at the boundary of the jurisdiction except when hot pursuit is necessary.

A police department's accountability and responsiveness to its jurisdictional clients can create a sense of isolation from the outside world. The term linkage blindness was coined in 1984 to denote an underlying problem with law enforcement serial murder investigations and many other crimes as well.

Intergovernmental conflict between law enforcement agencies is unfortunately a very common occurrence. The basis of these conflicts is a real or perceived violation of an agency's boundaries or geographical jurisdiction, or of the specific responsibilities of an agency to enforce specific laws. Agencies large and small continually practice boundary maintenance to protect their jurisdictions from intruder agencies moving onto their turf. The problem with boundary maintenance is that a serial killer can

Therefore, people can pass through their borders and commit criminal acts and then move on, never getting caught or identified. ..

 

[Marilynilpa]

Yesterday marked one year since the Life and Love Celebration for Elizabeth. For those who haven't seen it, or wish to see it again, here is the link:

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisapp...-Elizabeth-Collins-Celebration-183452631.html

I believe the perp attended this celebration. JMO.

So much time has passed, yet we don't know much more than we did the day the girls disappeared.:banghead:

 

[carbuff]

This is something we've discussed before - did LE think the girls were still alive because their bodies had not been found? Or did LE have some evidence that caused them to believe the girls really were alive?

I tend to believe LE really thought the girls were alive. It wasn't just local LE that felt this way - the FBI agreed:

About a week after the girls disappeared, investigators said they thought Lyric and Elizabeth were alive.

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault declined then to say exactly what evidence they had to push them toward that conclusion, urging anyone with information to come forward.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/10/us/iowa-missing-girls/

But the girls were not still alive, so obviously somewhere along the line an incorrect conclusion was drawn. JMO. Of course, we have no idea what evidence caused them to come to this faulty conclusion.

I just came across this quote from Abben, which I had forgotten about:

"Now that it's an abduction, everyone's a suspect," Abben said at the time, adding that investigators had recovered some evidence and sent it to the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation for analysis. He declined to say what the evidence was or where it was found.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ved-to-be-iowa-girls-who-went-missing-in-july

BBM

So "everyone's a suspect", meaning no one has been cleared. JMO.

Bold italics by me.

But we don't know that they weren't alive, do we? We don't know when, how, or where they were killed. They might well have been alive at that point and killed later.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Bold italics by me.

But we don't know that they weren't alive, do we? We don't know when, how, or where they were killed. They might well have been alive at that point and killed later.

No, we don't know, which is why I put "JMO" after my comment.

It is my belief they were killed shortly after they were abducted on July 13th. JMO. Therefore, any statements about the girls still being alive were, IMO, inaccurate.

 

[carbuff]

No, we don't know, which is why I put "JMO" after my comment.

It is my belief they were killed shortly after they were abducted on July 13th. JMO. Therefore, any statements about the girls still being alive were, IMO, inaccurate.

Sorry, misread.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Sorry, misread.

That's okay, you made a valid point because we don't know for sure when the girls were killed. All we have are our personal theories.

 

[Foxfire]

This is something we've discussed before - did LE think the girls were still alive because their bodies had not been found? Or did LE have some evidence that caused them to believe the girls really were alive?

I tend to believe LE really thought the girls were alive. It wasn't just local LE that felt this way - the FBI agreed:

About a week after the girls disappeared, investigators said they thought Lyric and Elizabeth were alive.

FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault declined then to say exactly what evidence they had to push them toward that conclusion, urging anyone with information to come forward.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/10/us/iowa-missing-girls/

But the girls were not still alive, so obviously somewhere along the line an incorrect conclusion was drawn. JMO. Of course, we have no idea what evidence caused them to come to this faulty conclusion.

I just came across this quote from Abben, which I had forgotten about:

"Now that it's an abduction, everyone's a suspect," Abben said at the time, adding that investigators had recovered some evidence and sent it to the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation for analysis. He declined to say what the evidence was or where it was found.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ved-to-be-iowa-girls-who-went-missing-in-july

BBM

So "everyone's a suspect", meaning no one has been cleared. JMO.

Marilynilpa, the investigation status was changed from missing persons to abduction on Friday 07/20/2012; one week after their abduction. Either that same day or the next morning on 07/21/2012, investigators found &#8220;physical evidence&#8221; relating to EC & LC according to kcrg news. If correct, this leads me to believe that someone/the perp, was taunting them, imo. Whether it was a photo, ransom letter, or phone call, etc. Imo, something tangible was located or received for investigators to release this confident statement that EC & LC were still alive.


<sniped & BBM for focus>
EVANSDALE, Iowa - Investigators still wouldn&#8217;t say they had any new leads Saturday afternoon, but stressed that they were &#8220;confident&#8221; both Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey are still alive.
http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/FBI-...-Missing-Girls-Are-Still-Alive-163296976.html Story Created: Jul 21, 2012 at 2:49 PM CST
FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault wouldn&#8217;t say what made them confident, even as statistics show that the longer someone goes missing, the less likely it is they will be found.

&#8220;We believe the girls are alive, and we are not discouraged by the passage of time,&#8221; Breault told reporters at the Evansdale Community Response Center Saturday.

Police will only say that &#8220;physical evidence&#8221; was found relating to the girls, but wouldn&#8217;t say if it was found by police, the dive teams or by the search dogs brought in to canvass the area near Meyers Lake, where the two went missing July 13/2012.